EllejBee ad nauseum

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:59 pm

Hi Lisa,
Thought can turn everything back into itself.


Wow!! thought can do that?


Please explain, how does thought DO this?

Please refer to only Direct Experience: seeing, hearing, smelling, touching and tasting, the 5 senses.

How do thoughts DO anything?



Looking forward to your fndings


Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:43 pm

Hi Lisa,

how are you doing?

What can be seen that thoughts can do?

Can they 'do' anything?

Is waiting helping for seeing it?

Stay in the moment, better......


Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:22 pm

Hi Trisha!

Thank you for checking on me. Work got pretty stressful at the end of the month, I started early and worked late, but have been thinking about "thoughts" throughout the day.

Thoughts are just passing through. And the sensations that sometimes precede them are noticed more often (not really before the thought though, but yes, noticing that there is a sensation there, usually in the chest area or stomach area). Usually the sensation part goes unnoticed, so this is a degree of change.

With work/employment, the thoughts take over (it's a very analytical job). But there are breaks and then thinking about thoughts happens some more.

Thoughts aren't ever doing anything. They come in, maybe hang around for a while, maybe not, then they go. Maybe come back, maybe not. Constant flow.

You are stalwart at pointing! A great pointer! When thinking about thoughts, that thought came in.

Thank you!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:57 pm

Hi Lisa,

Thank you for checking on me.
You are very welcome :-)
Work got pretty stressful at the end of the month, I started early and worked late,

yes, work does do this... I know this one.... If you do not have the time to Look and investigate then just let me know....
but have been thinking about "thoughts" throughout the day.
and then thinking about thoughts happens some more.

Lisa, again, it it NOT and NEVER about thinking about anything, it is about Looking and investigating into something....

You really need to See the difference.

Thoughts are just passing through.
Thoughts aren't ever doing anything. They come in, maybe hang around for a while, maybe not, then they go. Maybe come back, maybe not. Constant flow.

Exactly.... here you go, you see this.... There is zero truth or reality or experience in any thought.....



We are here to SEE through the illusion of there being any separate self or entity in Lisa, that is doing any of her life..... And with Seeing through this illusion or lie, Seeing through the illusion that there is any truth or reallity in thought.

Is this what you want, what you really desire?



Here is a deep pointer about thoughts........



Thought Exercises Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.


Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.


1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.



Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.


This is how to look at thoughts:-

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.


Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come.
In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.



Let me know how you go.



Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:22 am

Thank you, Trisha.

Regarding this:
Is this what you want, what you really desire?
Yes! Having a rather technical job that is heavy on analysis and thinking can be challenging, but it doesn't change the truth. And that is what I want to learn. To see the truth, to see through falsehood. That's it.

This exercise appears to be directly addressing this "weakness" that I have in (not) seeing thoughts for what they actually are. Thank you, I am going to be doing this very consistently. It's perfect.

Lisa

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:20 pm

Hi Trisha,

I've been doing the "Finding the Gap" exercise. Noticing a lot of thoughts, almost constant. Sometimes in a full sentence format that is relatively easy to notice, other times so fast that it barely registers as a thought. It can even be just a word, or a line from a song. The pause between thoughts is extremely brief. Is it possible that with practice in noticing, that the pause could become more pronounced?

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:06 pm

Hi Lisa,

Having a rather technical job that is heavy on analysis and thinking can be challenging,

Yes, this is possible. Your brain and body will be tired and it can be harder to change and LOOK at something with Direct Experiencing method.


Just to be clear:

"Thinking" is totally natural for us human beings, without thinking we could not even communicate. Thinking is a big part of our life, especially of our working life. And you have seen, how they work:
Thoughts aren't ever doing anything. They come in, maybe hang around for a while, maybe not, then they go. Maybe come back, maybe not. Constant flow.
Yes. Exactly. Perfect noticing of how thought-ing is happening.


There is nothing bad or ‘weak' in having thoughts. As you have SEEN in multiple exercises, they are happening on their own, coming and going or staying and bringing a content that was more often than not even asked for…..

Noticing a lot of thoughts, almost constant. Sometimes in a full sentence format that is relatively easy to notice, other times so fast that it barely registers as a thought. It can even be just a word, or a line from a song.
Yes. Exactly. Perfect noticing of how thought-ing is happening.

it doesn't change the truth. And that is what I want to learn. To see the truth, to see through falsehood. That's it.

Yes, that is what can happen here, SEEING how things are and always have been. It is already so, already now there is no extra entity somewhere inside of Lisa that is doing your life.

There is no ‘I’ or ‘me’ or separate self or any kind of entity that is ‘doing’ life.
Life is happening.
Is happening as a sky, as clouds moving, as your dogs playing, as trees moving, as wind winding…..
And is happening as Lisa.


This can not be learned.
You cannot learn something that is already here.
What is there to be learned???
It only can be SEEN.
SEEN that life is already and always liv-ing, right now.



Do you remember the very first pointer?


When I ask you: how is the weather in your place right now, Lisa?
You can:

1. open the window and look, feel, smell and hear the wind, sun, rain, smell of plants….. and share what is seen: It is raining and the rain is warm.

2. check your weather App or your computer or switch on TV or call a friend to check for you or you remember what yesterday’s weather forecast told what today’s weather would be.
Then you can tell me the information you got.

But are they true? Can you know if they are true? Do you have any experience about the true-ness of these information?


This is the difference between Direct Experience, Actual and raw experience, which is only:


]Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Sensation (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


The 2 nd solution is not at all about experiencing anything. It is only the content of thoughts, we can call information.

But is the content of a thought true or real???

Is the thought/figure/symbol of a unicorn, Batman, Santa true? Or are they labels for something?



Lisa, you can see the difference between a Direct Experience and a thought content/label/lie.



this "weakness" that I have in (not) seeing thoughts for what they actually are.

No, I don’t think there is ‘weakness’ here.


In different occasions you did notice thoughts for what they are, labels and thought up…..


It does not ’sink’ in…..though, a shift in perceiving is not happening.


Why?

Fear? If fear comes up it's here to show you that you are entering unexplored areas.

Can you welcome everything that is new, different, unexpected, investigated in and discovered and seen?
Seen for the first time?
It might take your breath away.

Can you say ‘yes’ to this uncovering of what is already?

This is not weakness but most powerful.

A very powerful tool.

This tool works best when you can thank everything that comes up, that shows itself, everything that can be seen. Even if you can not ‘get it’ or ‘understand’. It is true nevertheless…..

Can you surrender to what is discovered and seen, for the first time?

Or is there resistance?

Surrender to what is and resistance to what is are the 2 ends of the same line……


At this point we often suggest the process of ‘DEEP LOOKING’, looking and asking and listening to what your mind and heart have to say.

This process was developed by Ilona, one of the founders of this site and process at LU. You saw already some of her videos.


To do it, you need some quiet time alone, and a pen and paper (no, phone or iPad are not working here…)



Listening deeply to what the mind and the heart have to say.


When we listen to how mind and heart responds, we can take the next step. That is asking another question that rises up from the previous answer. Whatever shows up in the answer is showing the way to go deeper.

The Deep Looking Process is a conversation with whatever structure comes up to talk. When the focus is turned inside, notice, there is a voice talking, it labels everything.
Using this function of mind, we can have a chat with mind, heart, body, see what they want, what is in the way of having it now, what is there that needs to be protected.

Talking to the mind may sound weird, but it's not any weirder than talking to other imaginary characters in the head, like your partner or parent. It's imagined role play, a game, don't take it too seriously. It does not mean that there is this entity called Mind or Heart that live inside the entity called Body. It only means that if you ask a question of the structure directly you get a direct answer. Simple.



So ask the mind if it's at peace. Literally. - Mind, are you at peace?
Wait for the answer.
............


It's either yes or no. If yes, thank the MIND for the answer and ask the HEART the same question.

Wait for the answer and if it comes as yes then thank the heart too and enjoy the rest of the day :)

If NO comes up, ask the mind/heart what does it want the most.
You can write the answers down, as it helps to keep focus.
..........
After each answer give thanks and honor the heart and the mind.
...........
Next question would be- What is in the way of feeling relaxed now?

When the answer comes welcome that feeling, let it be here for a minute and just allow it to be as it is. Then you may ask the feeling what does it want the most, and see what comes up after that…

Don’t forget to write down the answers that come ….. our minds are tricky and can loose focus…..
...........

When the answer comes that feeling, mind, heart wants to relax, you ask:

Are you ready to relax?
Are you ready to relax now?

If both answers are yes, then just close your eyes and feel. Feel fully, without putting labels on what is felt. Just letting the raw sensations enfold you, play out and pass. Take your time with this one and when it feels that all has passed, bring in some more, and feel it out and then some more. And even more. Keep at it- welcoming, bringing up, feeling out, keep at the process as long as it feels right. You may imagine that there is an open door in the area of the feeling and see how the feeling is moving through that door. Alternatively, just feel. In the end, it may feel like exhaustion, tiredness. It's ok. This work requires a bit of concentration.

When feelings like fear, resistance come up, talk to them and ask, what are they protecting. When you get an answer ask the mind to LOOK if it still needs to protect that, or protection is no longer needed. If it's no longer needed you may ask if the feeling wants to leave. If it says yes, then feel it out as described above. If the answer is no, then ask what this feeling wants to tell you. Listen. Whatever the answer is, thank the feeling for the answer and focus on that which comes up in the answer. It all may sound bit complicated, but when you are there, in conversation, the questions and answers just play out by themselves.




The only thing to keep an eye on is the focus.

The tricky thing is, that if you are coming close to some strongly protected area, mind jumps at defense and either builds a wall or creates a distraction, or even both. The wall can be a sudden boredom, laziness to carry on, sleepiness, dismissal, blankness.

Distraction can come in many forms. Suddenly you may feel that you got something else to do or focus goes to something completely unrelated, something that appears to be much more interesting. It's the trick that mind plays when something feels threatened. If you notice that this happened, bring the focus back gently. Tell the mind that this is safe and you are here only to help it to get what it wants the most. Keep looking, keep welcoming and focus on what else is there that wants to speak up.

Often some scenes from childhood come up. A little kid, you, that may be feeling unloved, abandoned, and wants to be heard. Something may have happened, that the hurt is still there, something unresolved that still needs attention, processing, and acceptance. Give a hug to that child and tell her, how precious she is and how beautiful and that you love her very much. Ask the child what she wants the most and assure that she is safe and loved, stay with her till she feels lighter.

It's a mystery how this works, but it sure does. The Deep Looking Process allows you to go right to the root of stuck energy, lets you examine the beliefs and feelings around it and release happens. A deep release, that clears the space around the issue. It fills space with love and appreciation instead of tightness and unease.

When mind and heart are content and at peace, you may ask the mind, if it knows that the heart is it's home. Ask if it's already at home and if no, ask if it wants to join with the heart. Make sure both sides agree and then just close your eyes for a bit and feel the heart, feel the energy moving and simply be with it. As long as it feels right. It feels as it feels, descriptions fail at this point, no need to name the feeling either.



Lisa, I invite you to try to do this Deep Looking Process.

Try it out and let me know how it goes.

Then we will see how to proceed from there.


Lots of love to you

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:19 pm

Hi Lisa,

just checking in with you,

how did the last posting land with you?

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:06 pm

Hi Trisha!

It was a lot! I tried the Deep Looking exercises several times. I can get a clear answer from the Heart (it seems just fine, content, at peace) but I have not been able to get a clear answer from the Mind. Is it possible that the Mind won't talk to "me"? Isn't that strange. I have gotten a few words, but they lack clarity and seem almost random. I think I did get something like "that's the way we do things here" or "That's the way it's done". The randomness feels very much like the same randomness of thoughts in general. Like exactly the same. When I watch thoughts in general there is the randomness, and in asking a question of the Mind, it is more randomness. No apparent difference.

I'd welcome your feedback on this. "I" am not upset about getting an answer, there is a humorous side to this. And I tried multiple times (even making sure to do a "relaxation" process beforehand).

Thanks!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:51 pm

Hi Lisa,


I can get a clear answer from the Heart (it seems just fine, content, at peace)

Great! It is clear and important that heart is at peace. This is the support.

I think I did get something like "that's the way we do things here" or "That's the way it's done"

Great information. ‘mind’ tells you what it wants: to continue to do things as always, on its own term.


When you LOOK at this information, what does it tell you about your thoughts being able and supportive or not to LOOK and SEE through the illusion of there being an independant 'I' or self, to SEE the truth?




When I watch thoughts in general there is the randomness,

So what is this SEEING pointing to in terms of


is there is controller that is controlling thoughts in any way, when to come and when to leave again?

is there a 'Doer' of thoughts?


is there a decider like which thought is the next or how thoughts should be, pleasant or unpleasant?


Is any entity or 'self' or any form of 'I' necessary for thoughts to come and go and have certain contents?

What is found and how does it feel?







Great work :-)


Looking forward to your findings

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:00 pm

Hi Trisha! Glad you could understand what info I got. How you explain it does make sense of course!

And another funny thing, I woke up very early this morning and tried asking the mind again, and it did admit it this time. Regarding what gave it peace, it said something like "Everything staying the same, always". You were right on the money there.
is there is controller that is controlling thoughts in any way, when to come and when to leave again?
No. Not at all.
is there a 'Doer' of thoughts?
No.
is there a decider like which thought is the next or how thoughts should be, pleasant or unpleasant?
None.
Is any entity or 'self' or any form of 'I' necessary for thoughts to come and go and have certain contents?
The thoughts come and go, flowing all by themselves. Nothing is directing them.
What is found and how does it feel?
This feels like a reminder of the truth. A truth that goes underground (for "me") for a while but never stops, never leaves. The thoughts aren't personal, although that belief is usually strong that they are. At this moment it feels like a relief to remember that the thoughts aren't "mine", they just come and go. And it's easy to look back at some thoughts that at the time I thought were "mine" and see that they were just random passing thoughts.

So... Everything staying the same, always, means not seeing the truth of thoughts (for one thing). This is helpful.

Thanks!

Lisa

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:09 pm

Hi Lisa,
I woke up very early this morning and tried asking the mind again, and it did admit it this time. Regarding what gave it peace, it said something like "Everything staying the same, always ».

OK. Nice and clear what mind tells it needs.


So let's do some more Deep Looking:


Please talk to your mind again.
Settle down nicely and quietly, (even in the bed).

Address your mind:


Greet it, then thank it very very much and give it a lot of appreciation and tell it how much you love it and how well it is doing and working for you. That you appreciate it so very much, for all the great things it did for you in your life and at work. Hug your mind, kiss it and give it a medal (gold in your case, I suggest).

Tell the mind that things will stay the same. Because everything is already as it is and always was. Nothing has to be changed.


Send mind again lots of love and thanks and appreciation.
Thank it again for everything it did and is doing for you.
Say good bye for now…..


Then go to your heart:

Greet it and thank it for being fine and content. Give lots of appreciation to your heart and tell it how much you love it and how much you appreciate that it allows you to look for the truth, for how things have truly always been. That you thank it so much that it offers you the possibility to Look for this truth and to See through the false illusions of there being something like a independent entity or separate self that is doing life.

Hug and kiss your heart, thank it again. Give it a medal, gold again. Thank it again for what it did and is doing for you.
Say good bye for now.


Go back to your mind and ask it, if it knows that the heart is its home.

Wait for the answer.

If its already at home in the heart?
If not, ask it, if it wants to join with the heart?

Make sure that both agree, you might ask the heart if the mind can join with it.

Give them time.

Close your eyes for a bit and feel the heart, feel the energy moving and just simply be with it. As long as it feels right.

Stay with these sweet feelings, really sense them in your body. No need to name or describe or label anything now.

Then thank heart and mind for their attention and love.


You can do this more than once.


Feel the difference every time in your body.

Feel the peace in the heart as it feels expanded, spacious, limitless, when the heart just loves.


Take your time, do this several times and let me know how it goes.


Looking forward


Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:55 pm

Hi Trisha!

I tried this exercise a couple times so far. The first time I started with the heart (which seemed to be fine with everything). It was fine with the mind joining it, really it seems very easy-going.

So because this was a lot of stuff to go through, I did the mind the following day. The mind was a bit more talkative or expressive than it had been, and it did want to join with the heart (surprising that I got a clear answer on that one).

I will be doing this again. Will let you know what happens.
Thanks!

Lisa

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ElleBee
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby ElleBee » Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:57 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention, about the gold medals. I've been through the process 3 times so far, so the heart and mind have 3 gold medals each. I changed the colors of the band they are attached to, I asked the mind what color it wanted (this was the third time), it wanted white with a red stripe, so that's what I gave it. So really, it has gotten clearer.

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TeeKa112
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Re: EllejBee ad nauseum

Postby TeeKa112 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:25 pm

Hi Lisa,

This is good that you could do 3 rounds.

Can you notice any getting deeper in each round?

Why were you surprised to get a clear answer from mind to want to join with the heart?



Don't bother so much with colours of medals, don't get distracted, we focus more on contact with heart and mind directly and what they talk about in their answers to you.


For the next session, talk to heart and mind both in the same session:

Talk first with your heart why you are here at LU, what is your heart's desire? Do you want to find truth? You can talk very intimately with your heart. What are you here for?
Do you want to see truth? Do you want to see through the illusion of there being an independent entity 'I', illusion of separate self? That in truth there is no self?
Is this what the heart wants?


If this is the case thank your heart and tell how grateful you are. Thanking and appreciating the heart a lot.

Then go to mind and share with mind your heart's desire. Tell mind what your heart wants, to find truth.
Ask for support of mind to find out truth.
If mind gives support, thank mind deeply and with gratitude. Tell mind how happy you are that both heart and mind are here in this together.


And let me know how it is going-


Looking forward

Trisha
It is all so simple, but the very simplicity of it all is so staggering to you.

U.G. Krishnamurti


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