A self/body problem

[Vivien]

Hi Jordan,

You are welcome :)

What we usually do at this stage is to ask some checking questions to see if everything is clear and no stone left unturned.

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Vivien

[JedTheRed]

Hey Vivien,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

It is now clear that there isn't and there never was. Simply labelling of things that were mistaken for a self, a me, or an I.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self was a series of thoughts incorrectly layering threads on top of each other to complete the story of an "I". This probably began when the thoughts identified with a name given to this entity/body - but like all self-based associations, they are simply labels. There is no central "I" or "me" to be found. The story threads include everything from a name through to an occupation - an area which I can now see is also dizzyingly layered with labels and narratives, in fact the whole of society (which is a label in itself as is the entirety of language!) is nothing but meaningless labels all the way down.

In terms of what is different, there is a slight feeling of disassociation from most things. It's not a sad feeling, or a happy feeling, it's neutral - I feel more like an observer. Even that sentence no longer makes sense because there is no I or observer, but "I" need to use analogy if we are to use language to communicate :D

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Before - there was a confusion mistaking this body unit for a "me". It was getting hung up as the body being the apparent source of awareness and the "why" around that - but this no longer bothers "me" or feels like something to get hung up on or deeply investigate. It's just the way the illusion is. Looking for reasons only leads to more labelling, and therefore more untruth.

Now - there is not as much association with thought. It still captivates from time to time but it's easier to notice that it's simply something arising like the wind. It really is no different than the wind. I find that to engage in "normal life" there is a sense of having to play along with the labels and stories of the world just to play act, but it's fun. It certainly seems a lot less serious.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Previously, there was a subtle sense of "I" being a process in the brain. The biggest push was felt when this story was compared to other processes such as the story of oxygen transferring from the lungs to the bloodstream and how there was no difference really between this story and the other - and certainly no personal "I" in the middle of it. The wind analogy was also a big help in disassociating thought with "I".

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

There is no decider, there is no intention, there is certainly no free will, choice or control over anything. Things just happen! There is no understanding of the working - any attempt is a labelling process of stories upon stories. In this direct experience, there is only happening. For example, who is typing this message? Who is the decider to extend the index finger, move the individual tendons and stretch to reach the letter "T" - who is making those trillions of decisions a second? Nobody. There is no decisions being made. Just happening. Any mistaken decider, or thing with intent is simply a thought appearing that had a story about a decider.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Nothing. There is no "I"/"you" to have responsibility over anything. There isn't even a good or bad in a world without free will, choice, control etc, there is only happening. Morality is just a concept.

6) Anything to add?

"I" think "I'm" done! This should be terrifying for a self but it's actually incredibly amusing!

[Vivien]

Hi Jordan,

Thank you for your responses. I am going to ask other guides to have a look at the thread to ensure that I have covered everything and that my pointing has been clear. This may take a few days. Other guides might have further questions, and if they do, I will bring them to you.

Vivien

[JedTheRed]

Thank you so much Vivien! I would be happy to answer any further questions from the guides.

Thanks again!

[Vivien]

Hi Jordan,

One of the guides have some questions:

Is there a solid center called body which is different from the other experiences called 5 senses? Is the body itself is something other than experience?

Is there a center called brain which understand what is going on?

Thank you,
Vivien

[JedTheRed]

Hey Vivien,

Is there a solid center called body which is different from the other experiences called 5 senses? Is the body itself is something other than experience?

No, just the labelling of part of the experience which is no different than the rest of experience.

Is there a center called brain which understand what is going on?

No, there is a label of something called brain but it is not the centre of experience, this is centreless.

[Vivien]

Hi Jordan,

Thank you for your replies.

Other guides have no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to explore the concept of the separate self with you. Thank you for being open and willing to look.

Keep an eye out for an email notification notifying you of a PM (private message) from the forum inviting you to join our aftercare groups on Facebook. If you don't receive an email notification, you can access your PM's from the forum once you have logged in. The PM also details other resources available to you.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions via private message here on the forum, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Please don’t forget that this is just a beginning. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of conditionings, which needs further looking to help them to dissolve. All sorts of old beliefs, emotions and feeling can come up to see them and feel them. Please don’t stop looking if you want things to deepen.

If something comes up and you don’t know how to deal with it, please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look. I do further looking private sessions (video calls) and emotional inquiry. If you are interested, you can read more about that on my website (you can find the link in my signature).

Vivien

[JedTheRed]

Sorry for the late response Vivien, I was without internet for a few days there.

Thank you so much for your guidance through this process. Your patience and questions with the ability to unblock progress is phenomenal. Thank you! I will join the aftercare groups now.

Thank you again!
- Jordan

[Vivien]

You are most welcome :)