Seeing Through the Self Illusion

[vinceschubert]

Oh, and here is the passcode;
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3718929853?pw ... BoUUNwUT09

Meeting ID: 371 892 9853
Passcode: HmbSF4\

v

[Griselda]

Hi Vince,

..and just to clarify, do you sense that it has more integrity than being beliefs about Griselda?

Yes, that's a good way to put it. It has integrity the way Gravity has integrity. Gravity has always been there,
I've never felt any evidence that it is not there. Similarly, the sense of self has always been there, and has
been exactly what it feels like it is. So if someone says "Sure, you may feel a sense of self, but don't you see that it's just made up of thought? It's just a concept, like Santa Claus." I reply, no for me it is obvious that Santa Claus is made of thought but I don't see that with the Self. "beliefs about Griselda"? No, that doesn't ring true for me for what I consider the Self to be.

Ha, I love hard nuts like you. i have to dig deeper, and so get more out of it. Waking up isn't a destination. It's just finding a path of discovery that (I imagine) never ends.

I like that! You are a Godsend. Well, if you existed you'd be a Godsend. lol

Ha, no need to feel this. My seeking journey took 43 years.

That's about where I am too!

Trying doesn't help, but persistence does.

I've certainly been persistent. Although there have been many times I 'gave up', I always come back.

It looks like I missed this past weekend's meeting. I will attend the next one.

Thanks!

[vinceschubert]

'evening Griselda, So believing that there is an inherently separate self running the show, does that mean that you also believe that you have choice?
That you make decisions?
That you have control over what you do?
That you have infallible knowledge about things outside of your current experiencing?
that you have free will?

with love

vince

[Griselda]

believe that you have choice?

Yes, unfortunately I still believe I have choice. I don't WANT to! That is, I want to be one of you Self-less people
who know that Life just happens, and there is no individual making it happen. That would be SO MUCH better! But
sadly, I still feel I have choice.

That you make decisions?
That you have control over what you do?

Same answer. In fact today I've been agonizing over some business decisions. I imagine that never happens for you? Like
decisions just get made, and it's all in FLOW, and there's no feeling of anyone doing it?

That you have infallible knowledge about things outside of your current experiencing?

Well, no, I wouldn't say that. It is true that I only really 'know' things within my current experiencing. And maybe
not even that, as you demonstrated with the rubber arm illusion. And of course my senses and brain are adept
at producing approximations of what Reality is, but they don't actually know Reality directly. So I don't really have infallible knowledge about ANYTHING.

That you have free will

Yeah, unfortunately I still go for that one too. I know that what is SUPPOSED to happen is that I look for a Self, as LU people do, and I can't find one, so then I realize there is no 'Me', therefore there cannot be Free Will. But I can't do that.

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Griselda, i usually read a post and let it sit for a while before answering, but this one shouted out at me after a few minutes.

I've been agonizing over some business decisions. I imagine that never happens for you?

The process of decision making, choosing which way to go and apparently having the will to control the outcome still happens. The only difference (well not the only one) is that after it's done and I review that process, I know that it happened the only way it could.
For example, I'm sitting here doing this with about 30 minutes left before I go to golf and it starts raining. Do I go or not?
Because I know about how this process works, I don't make a decision (yet) a minute later the rain stops. Will it start again? Will it be heavy enough to choose to stay home? That will be decided by circumstances, so I remain relaxed and continue with tapping keys.
This is probably a key difference. i don't agonize. That is I don't succumb to the suffering of imagining that I might make a wrong choice. Which does happen. ..but because that (apparent) choice is now in the past, there is no point in introducing suffering by wishing it was different. In this way there is still enough relaxation to have a perspective that allows learning and to find the positives in the situation.
So, on the outside there is no apparent difference to the process, but on the inside there is a reacting to a trust that whatever decision is made that it will be ok.

with love

vince

[Griselda]

So, on the outside there is no apparent difference to the process, but on the inside there is a reacting to a trust that whatever decision is made that it will be ok.

That makes sense.

Although it begs the question "what do you mean by OK?" For example, right now the world is wrestling with the question about what to do about Russia attacking Ukraine. Apparently many people will die. I know Nonduality people will say "All there is is what you are experiencing" which seems to result in not caring.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Griselda,

Although it begs the question "what do you mean by OK?"

Yes, good question.
As I consider the question, I realize that "ok" doesn't mean a compliance with what is considered (by culture) to be good. What it points to is a feeling. A feeling of being at peace with whatever happens. That willing surrender to THIS.
It doesn't invite a slew of stories about how things could be or should be. ..about how wrong things are. It's a simple statement about acceptance. Not resignation. That implies a wrongness. "Ok" doesn't mean rightness. It is a relaxed, trusting softness.

right now the world is wrestling with the question about what to do about Russia attacking Ukraine.

Yes, it evokes sadness here, as does a myriad of other unjust, unfair, unnecessary things that are going in now and have gone on all of my life, and all of my parents life, and all of their parents life, and probably since the beginning of humans.
Is there anything that I can do to change any of this?

i am organizing a zoom meetup of the ones that I am guiding at the moment and feel that it would be a good thing for you to sit in on it.
There is no pressure and no expectations. It's an experiment to see what happens.
Organizing a time that suits the varying time zones is the difficult part.
if you are interested let me know and I will get back to you with a time and link. (for joining the meetup)

with love

vince

[Griselda]

Hi Vince,

Yes, let me know about the meeting you planned for people you're guiding.

G

[vinceschubert]

What is your time zone?

v

[Griselda]

Pacific Standard Time

[vinceschubert]

Look for PM re Sunday meetup

v

[Griselda]

Thanks! I shall

[vinceschubert]

check for PM

v

[Griselda]

Hi Vince,

It was lovely to see you (as if there is a 'you') the other day. Is there
anything I should be doing?

[vinceschubert]

Good morning J,

Is there
anything I should be doing?

Did anything change in your experiencing after the meetup?

v