Stuck in fear

[nellie]

Sorry I have to write it in a few messages as I keep losing what I have wrote even when I use ‘save draft’

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

I can feel the pressure where I am sitting on the chair and the feeling of my clothes but I wouldn’t say there is a boundary, the sensation of the air is the same. There is a feeling that the sensation could just keep on going in all direction (if this makes sense)

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

I feel like I’m repeating myself a bit but there’s no inside or outside the sensation can only be distinguished by thought. An itch on my skin or my belly rumbling. all the same thing. Sensation. I think one think that stumps me with h the body is pain. Yes sensation but so difficult to experience this alone.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

I would describe the body as
The ´form’ that experienced consciousness. It doesn’t belong to me although thought would like me to believe it does. It is very hard to disconnect with this idea of being the body, of it being part of the I so much has been invested in it for so long. It’s hard to drop it.
The actual experience of it is it allows ‘me’ to have the 5 senses and to experience them.

Many thanks

nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

First, I need your answer on this question (previous post) :
How does this control on thoughts, operate ? How do YOU intervene in the process ?

Second, to avoid losing your answers, write them on a winword sheet then do copy/paste here.

I would describe the body as
The ´form’ that experienced consciousness.

When you dream during the night, the body is asleep but you are conscious of the dream. LOOK and answer to this question : is consciousness knowing the body, the senses and the world or is the body experiencing consciousness as you said ?

It doesn’t belong to me although thought would like me to believe it does.

Would you look at this "me" and describe it ?

It is very hard to disconnect with this idea of being the body, of it being part of the I so much has been invested in it for so long. It’s hard to drop it.

See for yourself, is the body knowing thoughts ?

The actual experience of it is it allows ‘me’ to have the 5 senses and to experience them.

There is no you in any shape or form, is it true ?

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello, I’m really sorry I haven’t been able to reply today. I will reply tomorrow.

Many thanks

Nel

[warissem]

Good morning

Take your time but the best way is to maintain the flow of looking at You during daily activities : Is there a me which is walking ? Is there a me which is cooking ? etc ...

Kind regards

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,
Thanks I will ask myself this throughout the day.

How does this control on thoughts, operate ? How do YOU intervene in the process ?

It’s the voice inside my head that I have thought for so long is me. The intervention is just another thought. If I say stop in my head it’s just another thought. There is no me intervening just thoughts of the me, thinking that I have some control. It’s like there is this creation of me in thought and then thought comments on thought from the thought position of a me. (This sounds like the ramblings of a mad woman, I hope it makes sense)

LOOK and answer to this question : is consciousness knowing the body, the senses and the world or is the body experiencing consciousness as you said ?

When I looked this was much clearer, it’s the other way round. Consciousness is knowing the body. Consciousness is the isness and the body comes after.

Would you look at this "me" and describe it ?

This is difficult as before I would have said it’s the body combined with thought that creates this idea of controlling the vessel. But after looking, I tried to think of it as if I was dissecting my body where would this me be located and it can only be found in thought. I think the difficulty with this is I understand without thought there would be no I there would only be consciousness but the thing is, there is thought, so unless we stop thinking how can we ever really detach from this concept.

See for yourself, is the body knowing thoughts ?

No the body knows nothing. The body just is.

There is no you in any shape or form, is it true ?

There is body, there is consciousness, there is the story of me that has been created by thought but the existence of a le seperate and unique, I would have to say no.

Many thanks

Nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

Great, good observations. It is time to do this exercise :

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Kind regards

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

Ok so this one has stumped me a little, so I did it while reading the message, it was just happening, no control or controller but after I thought maybe this was because my attention(thought really) was focused elsewhere as in reading the instructions.

When I did it while again while just focusing on my hand again it was just the feeling of it just happening. I chose My left hand as I’m left handed. And thought intervened pretty quickly saying ‘what am I looking for’ etc.
But the basics of it was something moving in front of my face.

Many thanks,

Nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

Ok so this one has stumped me a little, so I did it while reading the message, it was just happening, no control or controller but after I thought maybe this was because my attention(thought really) was focused elsewhere as in reading the instructions.

Are you the thinker of thoughts ?
When a thought is SEEN (or known) it has already arisen.

When I did it while again while just focusing on my hand again it was just the feeling of it just happening.

Yes.

I chose My left hand as I’m left handed. And thought intervened pretty quickly saying ‘what am I looking for’ etc.
But the basics of it was something moving in front of my face.

Is there a you choosing to do things ?


What do you say when you read this : there is no you, no nel, no separate self in any shape or form, it never was, it will never be.

Kind regards

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

Are you the thinker of thoughts ?

No not at all, like you said once they are acknowledged they have already happened, coming from nowhere. I think the moment between the thought appearing and then taking ownership of it is really short, but it’s défi there

Is there a you choosing to do things ?

I guess it was more an instinct. Or maybe better said as conditioning. Actions will be repeated because of conditioned thoughts.

there is no you, no nel, no separate self in any shape or form, it never was, it will never be

I’m not sure I understood this question. The no you changes to me.
Yesterday someone said something to me and the thought entered my head. I am offended and then I said but who is offended. And I realised that there was no one. Just more thought. Wow if you can have this réalisation about everything then nothing would be a problem.

Kind regards

nel

[nellie]

Hello,

Are you the thinker of thoughts ?

No not at all, like you said once they are acknowledged they have already happened, coming from nowhere. I think the moment between the thought appearing and then taking ownership of it is really short, but it’s défi there

Is there a you choosing to do things ?

I guess it was more an instinct. Or maybe better said as conditioning. Actions will be repeated because of conditioned thoughts.

there is no you, no nel, no separate self in any shape or form, it never was, it will never be

I’m not sure I understood this question. The no you changes to me.
Yesterday someone said something to me and the thought entered my head. I am offended and then I said but who is offended. And I realised that there was no one. Just more thought. Wow if you can have this réalisation about everything then nothing would be a problem.

Kind regards

nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

Yesterday someone said something to me and the thought entered my head. I am offended and then I said but who is offended. And I realised that there was no one. Just more thought.

Yes, this is the clue : ask the belief " I am so and so". Is there a me which is offended ? Is there a me doing things ? is there a me wanting enlightenment ? etc, ... Ask this in your daily activities 24/7 and let me know about what is going on.

Kind regards

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

So I have asked myself this continuously and sometimes it’s absolutely clear and other times it can be seen but there is resistance (thought)
When I was doing things like eating or driving or washing dishes I felt it was clear and I would ask the follow on question like well did you decide to chew on the left side of your mouth or why did you move your hand like that ? And then I could see there was not a me controlling it.

Émotions like annoyance or frustration, sadness were clear as it was just thought. Without the thought there might have been a mild sensation but the dominant force is thought.

What I found most difficult were the senses. For example my basset hound likes to sit on my lap, she is heavy!!! And I thought who is feeling this weight on their legs. It’s sensation but difficult to detach or not to think there was a someone feeling it.

But my overriding thought which is what it is …. Is even if I have that réalisation, that’s great and it’s like I have a few moments of insight but I still get sucked right back in to the idea of self with practically every thought. How will that end.

Many thanks for your time and patience.

nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

So I have asked myself this continuously and sometimes it’s absolutely clear and other times it can be seen but there is resistance (thought)

There is no you here to be asked. Look

When I was doing things like eating or driving or washing dishes I felt it was clear and I would ask the follow on question like well did you decide to chew on the left side of your mouth or why did you move your hand like that ? And then I could see there was not a me controlling it

Fine. There is no you to do things, has it be seen clearly ?

Émotions like annoyance or frustration, sadness were clear as it was just thought. Without the thought there might have been a mild sensation but the dominant force is thought.

Great observations.

What I found most difficult were the senses. For example my basset hound likes to sit on my lap, she is heavy!!! And I thought who is feeling this weight on their legs. It’s sensation but difficult to detach or not to think there was a someone feeling it.

There is a difference between seeing that there is no one here and thinking “there is someone feeling it” : do you see that the illusion resides in thought ?

But my overriding thought which is what it is …. Is even if I have that réalisation, that’s great and it’s like I have a few moments of insight but I still get sucked right back in to the idea of self with practically every thought. How will that end

The idea of self could be here after seeing that it is an illusion. It is like Santa Claus : you see it in front of you but you know it is a playing role. Do make a difference between a thought and what is Here Now in plain view.
Anyway, look at the "I" which is used in your answer, where can it be found ?

Many thanks for your time and patience.

You are much welcome

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

There is no you here to be asked. Look

So it’s just thought asking thought. And not even that, as thought can’t do anything or ask anything.

Fine. There is no you to do things, has it be seen clearly ?

when I look yes it is seen clearly, when I am on autopilot, no not at all and I have to be honest a lot of time is spent in this state with fleeting moments of looking.

There is a difference between seeing that there is no one here and thinking “there is someone feeling it” : do you see that the illusion resides in thought ?

Yes I see it, I had a headache and I looked and could see that there was no one feeling it, I was overlaying a lot of thought, negativity etc but then I realised it’s not good or bad or pain or unpleasant it’s just a sensation in the head. Why is it unpleasant ? Conditioned thinking.

The idea of self could be here after seeing that it is an illusion. It is like Santa Claus : you see it in front of you but you know it is a playing role. Do make a difference between a thought and what is Here Now in plain view.
Anyway, look at the "I" which is used in your answer, where can it be found ?

It cannot be found only in thought, the problem is I am still believing the thoughts, it’s what I’ve done all my life. They seem so strong, I still have such an attachment to this idea of I the personality, the Nel that I have been presenting all these years.

Thanks

Nel

[warissem]

Hi

So it’s just thought asking thought. And not even that, as thought can’t do anything or ask anything.

Great.

when I look yes it is seen clearly, when I am on autopilot, no not at all and I have to be honest a lot of time is spent in this state with fleeting moments of looking.

When I say : you have 100 dollars in your pocket, is it true ? You look and see that there is not the case. Is it necessary to see at every moment of a day or when it is seen it cannot be unseen. Now have you seen for sure that there is no you, no separate self in any shape or form ?

Yes I see it, I had a headache and I looked and could see that there was no one feeling it, I was overlaying a lot of thought, negativity etc but then I realised it’s not good or bad or pain or unpleasant it’s just a sensation in the head. Why is it unpleasant ? Conditioned thinking.

Good observations.

It cannot be found only in thought, the problem is I am still believing the thoughts, it’s what I’ve done all my life. They seem so strong, I still have such an attachment to this idea of I the personality, the Nel that I have been presenting all these years.

Who or what is believing the thoughts ? Is not “believing thoughts” another thought ?
Who or what has an attachment ?
Is there a fear of losing something ? Which never existed ? which does not exist? Which will never be ?

Kind regards

Warissem