Finding Freedom

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry - I am responding from my phone - I have computer problems so I cant reply with quotes - please be assured I am practicing your exercises at every single opportunity - I'll respond as soon as I get back online

[Harry]

Hello,

No worries, thanks for letting me know!

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

I have a new laptop now so I am up & running – please excuse my dualistic language when explaining things

Again to clarify – under investigation a doer , chooser , thinker can never be found & this is a direct experience

Good work. How does it feel to see that there’s no chooser?

Strange but in a good way 😊 - when I am witnessing non doership particularly walking in the countryside “I” am completely in the moment - no thoughts watching myself walk - I feel alive – its like being on the cusp of a great universal truth unvieling itself – I relish the times now when I have free time to really concentrate on the exercises – pity work has got to get in the way ! However to be honest, its becoming completely normal to myself – “I” do remind myself that No Self is the natural state & the ego/ false identity is the error

This is good too, let’s investigate a few things though:

Is witnessing non-Doership something you do? Or does it also happen on its own?

Witnessing happens on its own – however as explained previously – it is clear when “I” am aware of witnessing & when “I” am not – when “I” am aware of the present moment & when “I” am not – that’s the difference - it is getting more frequent particularly in my free time that awareness of witnessing is happening

When you’re talking, speech and listening can be found, but can that which talks and that which listens be found?

No a talker / listener can never be found - much easier to witness listening than talking in these exercises

Is there some self there that is authoring/controlling/doing it? Or is there just what’s happening?

No controller can be found – it just is

Does witnessing happen from some point or position, by a localised witness? If so, can you pinpoint it exactly?

Yes – this is where I would like your help - I definitively get more feeling in my forehead / head region initially - this is where it is most of the time – however going deeper into the feeling it quickly expands to way beyond my body – in fact there are no boundaries - but it does feel more concentrated in my forehead / head region

Is there any distance, separation or edge between that which is witnessing, and that which is witnessed?

I also need help on this question - the witnessing & that which is witnessed happens simultaneously so in that respect there is no separation – there are no edges – but distance can be judged between subject & object

There “appears” to be different levels of being in the moment - sometimes it feels like “I” am witnessing something “over there” & sometimes it appears as if “I” am totally in the middle of everything - as if that which is witnessed is part of “my” awareness - if that makes sense – difficult to explain

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

More good work, especially on your first answers.

Let’s explore this feeling of being a localised witness a little more…

Yes – this is where I would like your help - I definitively get more feeling in my forehead / head region initially - this is where it is most of the time – however going deeper into the feeling it quickly expands to way beyond my body – in fact there are no boundaries - but it does feel more concentrated in my forehead / head region

Head Exercise

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

Is there a witness ‘in the head’, or just sensations?

I also need help on this question - the witnessing & that which is witnessed happens simultaneously so in that respect there is no separation – there are no edges – but distance can be judged between subject & object

Where and what is this subject?

If the object is on one endpoint of the distance, what is on the other endpoint, where the ‘subject’ supposedly is?

Is there some independent observer outside of experience looking in? Or is there just experience?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

Head Exercise

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

In terms of what is actually experienced – it is just a pressure sensation - the head Is not felt

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

In terms of what is actually experienced – it is just a pressure sensation - the head Is not felt

And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

Just the pressure sensation

Is there a witness ‘in the head’, or just sensations?

Under investigation – no witness can be found

I also need help on this question - the witnessing & that which is witnessed happens simultaneously so in that respect there is no separation – there are no edges – but distance can be judged between subject & object

Where and what is this subject?

Under investigation – there is No Subject

If the object is on one endpoint of the distance, what is on the other endpoint, where the ‘subject’ supposedly is?

A subject cannot be found

Is there some independent observer outside of experience looking in? Or is there just experience?

No external observer can be found under investigation

Harry – I really need a bit more time with these specific exercises & more on the same subject if you have more questions - its subtle but it’s possible that “I” am creating a subject , object relationship in my experiences when there isn’t one - that’s why I have been saying that there are almost like 2 levels of witnessing – one in which “I” seem to be on the side lines looking “out there” and another which is deeper when “I” am directly involved & it is happening in & around “me” – the last one seems more real but "i" don't always experience it - there’s something I am just not quite getting

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk,

All your answers were spot on. I intended to have sent this days earlier but accidentally didn’t end up hitting submit somehow, sorry.

Harry – I really need a bit more time with these specific exercises & more on the same subject if you have more questions - its subtle but it’s possible that “I” am creating a subject , object relationship in my experiences when there isn’t one - that’s why I have been saying that there are almost like 2 levels of witnessing – one in which “I” seem to be on the side lines looking “out there” and another which is deeper when “I” am directly involved & it is happening in & around “me” – the last one seems more real but "i" don't always experience it - there’s something I am just not quite getting

You’re exactly right that the subject/object is created and not really there. It’s one of the more subtle activities of ‘selfing’.

Like you said in your answers, whenever you look for the subject, it is never found. So, keep looking!

When doubts arise, who or what is it that doubts? From who or what do doubts arise?


Here’s some more exercises for you on perspective:


Hand on desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?
2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?
3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Apologies – I was away for the weekend but I now practice religiously at every opportunity

You’re exactly right that the subject/object is created and not really there. It’s one of the more subtle activities of ‘selfing’.

Like you said in your answers, whenever you look for the subject, it is never found. So, keep looking!

When doubts arise, who or what is it that doubts? From who or what do doubts arise?

I have doubts about whether the process will work for “me” & the doubts are about “me” - these are no more than thoughts with a strong pull & under investigation the “me” cannot be found as it doesn’t exist .

The mind still insists on creating this “me” character against overwhelming evidence that it doesn’t exist - during my leisure time there is more time to spend on the exercises & that definitively helps being present more often. It's as if the "me " character is losing power but it is still definitively there - it comes back with a vengence every now & then but these times are getting less & less - if u recall in the beginning i used to get "attacks" during the middle of the night from worries & concerns - this still happens but in most cases ( not all !) - Direct Seeing into "who" is having these worries quickly makes them disappear - the " doubter " , the "worrier" can never be found !


Here’s some more exercises for you on perspective:

Hand on desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) - Close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

My answers are from direct experience

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

Just one – sensation – there is no hand that is felt

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

No “feeler” can be found under investigation

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

Just sensation

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Just sensation - no hand or body can be felt


Can an INHERENT FEELER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a than a concept/idea/thought?

No “feeler” can be found under investigation

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,


Great answers once again! Clear SEEING of raw sensation: nice work.

The mind still insists on creating this “me” character against overwhelming evidence that it doesn’t exist - during my leisure time there is more time to spend on the exercises & that definitively helps being present more often. It's as if the "me " character is losing power but it is still definitively there - it comes back with a vengence every now & then but these times are getting less & less - if u recall in the beginning i used to get "attacks" during the middle of the night from worries & concerns - this still happens but in most cases ( not all !) - Direct Seeing into "who" is having these worries quickly makes them disappear - the " doubter " , the "worrier" can never be found!

I’m really glad that SEEING is stabilising for you and that you have been able to unhook many doubts and worries.

What is the ‘me’ character you are referring to that is losing power, coming and going, etc.?


Here is another perspective exercise:


Ceiling & Body Exercise

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.

There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labelled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.

Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut. What do you notice?

Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?


All the best!

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

What is the ‘me’ character you are referring to that is losing power, coming and going, etc.?

It was just a turn of phrase - there is No ”me” character at all & this is seen every single time under investigation - So if there is No “Me” there is No Power to Lose, because “me” doesn’t exist !!!

I was just pointing out that I am getting real benefit from these exercises in which "mind attacks" are happening less

Ceiling & Body Exercise

Lie on your back and relax. Have a look at the ceiling.

There is thought to be a distance between that what is thought to be known as ‘body’ and that what is labelled ‘ceiling’.

Close your eyes. Now focus on the space between body and ceiling.

Take your time, breathe in and out and simply look. Keep the eyes shut. What do you notice?

Is there a body? Is there a ceiling? Is there a distance?

Really enjoyed this exercise - During this exercise “I” felt neither a body , a ceiling or any distance whatsoever - just the sensations of “my” body on the bed - this is now part of "my" routine

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk,

You’re doing really well. Thank you for the efforts you’re making here.

To give me a sense of your experience, would you tell me what if FEELS like to directly SEE that this ‘me’ character doesn’t exist?

What does it FEEL like to SEE there is no ceiling, body or distance?

[Asterisk1]

To give me a sense of your experience, would you tell me what if FEELS like to directly SEE that this ‘me’ character doesn’t exist?

When I relax & do these exercises I tend to close my eyes & settle - immediately now there is witnessing & Direct Seeing - its difficult to explain so I will just put some adjectives of what is felt - spacious , peaceful , expansive , no boundaries ,silent - its like floating in space which is about the nearest analogy I can think of – the body is not felt only the sensations against the bed

Thoughts interrupt every few seconds , however in most cases ( not all !! ) they are easily seen & watched as they subside – if the ego jumps in with a “me” character story – the question is asked straight away – “Is this person Real ? “ If so where is it located ?” Again in most cases it has already disappeared whilst the question is being asked & the “floating” resumes

Sometimes the mind is active particularly especially after a busy day at work, in these times identification can happen from time to time and it takes time for the interruptions from thoughts to settle down - sometimes the mind is so calm which is obviously the preferred case – during these times the periods of silence are getting longer

It’s a wonderful, all encompassing feeling not unfamiliar to just waking up in that half sleep & I can stay there for hours - literally - most nights I now wake up in the middle of the night unplanned & I go straight into Direct Seeing – this is an effortless activity then drift back to sleep

Whilst awake - the No Self is not “realised” all the time - if I am on my own I practice with virtually every activity I do – the most common activities now like brushing my teeth or driving become adventures as observing takes in more dimensions to the moment then that which was realised previously - walks in the countryside particulary have become multi sensory adventures - again wonderful experiences.

The problem unfortunately is that I have a busy working life & a busy social life with a partner who thinks all this is “gobbledly gook “ - during these times it is more difficult to concentrate on the exercises & more difficult to observe – although progress is still definitively being made in those areas as well

What does it FEEL like to SEE there is no ceiling, body or distance?

Same as all the above – it feels like floating in space - a truly spacious & liberating feeling

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

Great response!

Are thoughts truly an obstacle to SEEING? Is relaxation/concentration/calmness the same as SEEING?

Please refer only to your direct experience.


Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source.

It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where you autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which you are responsible – if so, responsible to what and for what?

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry - Apologies - I have been really busy but as always I can guarantee I am doing the exercises in the background - this particular one has put me into a bit of a tail spin about free will - I'll respond in the next couple of days with some interesting feedback because I had a glimpse moment for a couple of minutes about non doership - Regards

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Please see my responses

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source.

It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions?

No - it goes on the path of least resistance

Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc?

It appears to be part of the same system

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

It appears to be ever changing – moment by moment

1. Can you find anywhere where you autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

This is where I have struggled - essentially my job role is about making decisions - I work for a Telecomms Company on Projects & on a daily basis I am part of a team that has to make 100 decisions every single day on fast moving building projects - even though every time I do the exercises on doership – I can never find a doer , thinker , chooser etc - I am struggling to understand what is going on here – at the moment I need some help in seeing that these dynamic meetings with numerous people & second by second data is “ Just Happening” - how are the decisions collectively being made ?

I have been doing the Hand exercise this week again & I still can’t find a doer - but if “I” am not doing this - who or what is ? This is what I am struggling with – so if you can help me with that please ?

3. Can anything be found for which you are responsible – if so, responsible to what and for what?

Again – I have struggled with this one - I am a father with 3 sons – I am helping one of them get through University , one get on the housing ladder - “I” do feel a degree of responsibility but when I have investigated deeper into the feeling there is no one there to feel responsible - this has been very conflicting because on one hand i know there is nobody there to feel responsible - i still have that pull - so if you can help me with this please ?

These particular exercises have put me in a real tail spin like I said but I suppose that’s the purpose of them to question what is actually real & what is not

Given that – I have had a “glimpse” experience – please excuse the dualistic language - I find it easier working with exercises on doership when it’s a physical activity like walking etc

I was driving yesterday on my own & in a flash I fully recognised that the Driving was just happening – I was observing myself driving without any effort at all & it literally felt I could have jumped out of my body if I wanted to as there was no attachment - the recognition came like a bolt out of the blue & I burst out laughing because I fully realised in that “I” had no involvement in the activity at all - this lasted at least a couple of minutes then suddenly the feeling just disappeared & I was back as “normal” so to speak - reflecting afterwards I realised this episode just happened by accident & I could never make it happen again even if I wanted to - just wondered if these glimpses happens to everybody who is "on the path " so to speak ?

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

I am struggling to understand what is going on here – at the moment I need some help in seeing that these dynamic meetings with numerous people & second by second data is “Just Happening” - how are the decisions collectively being made ?

Understanding is thoughts and their content. SEEING is experience. Just LOOK… watch what happens when a decision appears. Does it appear spontaneously, or is it somehow selected before it appears?

I have been doing the Hand exercise this week again & I still can’t find a doer - but if “I” am not doing this - who or what is ? This is what I am struggling with – so if you can help me with that please?

Check again to see if you are seeking to think yourself to the answer, instead of LOOKING. What happens when your hand turns, according to experience?
Are you (or anyone else) producing the sensations and colours of movement, or do they just appear? Are they selected and chosen and controlled, or just spontaneous?

this has been very conflicting because on one hand i know there is nobody there to feel responsible - i still have that pull - so if you can help me with this please ?

Is ‘knowing there is nobody to feel responsible’ an idea/memory/thought or SEEING? What is actually happening, right now? Is there a story there?

just wondered if these glimpses happens to everybody who is "on the path " so to speak

It’s normal for SEEING to come and go. However, upon LOOKING honestly and without distraction, SEEING is always available. There always already is no self; it’s not something that we have to make happen.