Unraveling a tangled life

[Surrendering]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? My ''intellectual'' understanding is there is only consciousness, what is happening here & now, in this moment. That everything is all one.

What are you looking for at LU? The possibility of finally surrendering my beliefs. The possibility of recognizing the truth of being through direct experience. Currently in direct inquiry I keep seeming to feel I am experiencing a sense of a center...a place of awareness that no matter how I look feels as if it comes from within me. My understanding from all I have read or heard that this isn't true. I want truth and a stop to unnecessary suffering and beliefs, if that is possible through direct inquiry.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I don't have any expectations. I do have hope that by getting support from someone else seeing through where I am stuck in beliefs, concepts, etc. that they may direct my inquiry in such a way that I may be able to finally pierce the veils of illusion. Hoping for being only in direct experience through guided conversation. Being able to truly see and know life for exactly what it is.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Too long to state all. I began on a spiritual, knowing what is, journey at 15 and am now 66. Suffice it to say way too long of a road to nowhere (which I get is now-here). Tired of grasping, clinging, being on an endless road.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Surrendering]

[/quote]What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Too long to state all. I began on a spiritual, knowing what is, journey at 15 and am now 66. Suffice it to say way too long of a road to nowhere (which I get is now-here). Tired of grasping, clinging, being on an endless road."

I want to give more of an explanation here to this initial question.
Somewhere around three years of age I began telling my Atheist parents I needed and desired to be with God. Apparently I was very insistent on this and around four or so my mother decided to take me to a church as that was all she believed was where others found God. In a two year,period she took me to several churches and I was in a few children's groups. Apparently I loved the singing but kept telling her that this wasn't where God was. As I got more involved with school and friends this faded until around age ten when I joined a Bible study group at a friend's home. I did this for about a year and again was dissatisfied. I then began exploring occult...trying seances, Hypnotherapy, Tarot. Having discovered we had Gypsy blood in my prepubesence I began fancying myself as a Gypsy...lol.
Around age fifteen I read an article about Eastern religions and Guru's and this began a fascination with Eastern religions. I began to search for anything I could find. This being the early seventies and living in small towns it wasn't easy. I left home around age sixteen and ended up in a communal house with other seekers. Over the next few years I saw several Guru's and Spiritual Masters such as Satchidinanda, Muktananda, Ram Dass, Krishnamurti and some others. Their messages got me to begin exploring Buddhism. I also began meditation and doing retreats. As time passed I explored Yoga and other somatic practices. Whatever came to my attention that was promising ''enlightenment'' and/or a connection with God I wanted it. At some point I began following Goddess based religions and then took a four year apprenticeship as a Shaman.
And I continued to read everything and anything ''spiritual but never finding what felt like whatever it was I was seeking.
From the very beginning I felt I had the answer, the understanding or knowing I was seeking but the more I looked the more it alluded me. Eventually I came back around to Buddhisim as this philosophy felt closest to what rang true within me. Especially the teachings on Accepting whatever arises and being in the moment. Somewhere in my return to this I began being online and the information and videos available took me further down the endless seekers hole. In the past year or so I stumbled on Advaita and Non Duality teachers and those pointing to No Self. I've deeply resonated to this message and been attempting self inquiry as much as possible. I began using inquiry from Scott Kiloby, Fred Davis, Gangaji and several others and then discovered Ilona's book which led me here.
After over 60 years of seeking I am so weary and yet cannot seem to stop feeling the need to know. What I have come to finally recognize that it's not about finding ''enlightenment" but rather needing an end to this endless seeking. To hopefully find an inner peace, to be satisfied with Life as it is. Thank you anyone who had the patience to read this and anyone who is moved to guide my inquiries.

[Surrendering]

LMFAO...Can't stop laughing! Took suggestion to read The Gateless Gate while waiting for a guide.
As I was certain I was leaning on the gate, reading guided journeys clarity came in a second and I fell through my illusionary gate! I had been stuck believing that consciousness, the sense of being was somehow my own, living only in my body.

The exercise of looking for a 🦄 Unicorn and knowing no Unicorn there so wouldn't even look and then recognizing that seeking my self is exactly same as seeking a Unicorn is when all belief in a self collapsed! And it took me a few moments to recognize what was happening because years of being a spiritual seeker I was expecting the bells and whistles even though I thought I had dropped that.

So ordinarily extraordinary. Having the experience of spaciousness, of a quiet peace I hadn't quite believed in because my mind had always been so chaotic. Colors are brighter, sounds sharper...as if a gauzy veil had been over my head and now has evaporated. I also now recognize why others have expressed that this is an ending and beginning all at once.
0lease note that it's clear there is no I, no separate self here and simply using I as identifier. Completely understand now why so many in non duality say it's almost or is impossible to speak of this.

Still happy to speak with anyone else here who has gone through the gateless gate awhile ago to look into continuing clarification if needed here.

Thank you and blessings to all, especially Ilona for the direct questions and exercises that aided the direct experience of being here.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Yes. it sounds like you've fallen right into seeing there is no self. Nice.

My name is Stacy & we can have a conversation & clear up anything remaining. I will post my usual introduction, since it has some details. but maybe we'll move pretty quickly.

I'm 62 & we've probably read & studied some of the same things before we showed up here.

This us my usual initial post. Take a look for instructions & then we'll move on.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving

[Surrendering]

Dear Stacy,
I have been ill and somehow thought I would get an email if someone responded. I am so very sorry that several days have lapsed since you reached out.
I wanted to be certain you are still willing to work with me before I replied to your questions.
I will do my very best to answer daily. I want to be certain I have adequate time to look deeply and clearly so if I feel more time is needed I can let you know.
I will be looking for your reply and if still willing to work together will answer the questions you already posed.
My name is Raven and I'm in California, USA Pacific Standard Time.

Blessings, Raven

[Anastacia42]

Hi Raven,

Yes. You should have gotten an email. It's our fault that you didn't. Check the bottom of this page for a wrench icon. Click it and if it says, "subscribe," click "Subscribe" to get emails peryou get emails. If it says unsubscribe, don't do anything you should be getting emails.

Yes, I can work with you.

So please go ahead and answer those 4 questions.

Much love,

[Surrendering]

Dearest Stacy,
Woohoo...got the email. Will answer questions later in afternoon as I want to sit with them a bit.
So grateful to have first found Ilona's book Liberation Unleashed which led me here and now you with the willingness to give your understanding and time. Such a blessing to all who find their way here.

Thank you, Raven

P.S. What time zone are you in?

[Anastacia42]

Thanks, Raven,

Mountain Time

Go down to the bottom of the page and click the wrench icon. If it says Subscribe click it to subscribe click it to subscribe to email notifications. I will not be emailing again.

If it says unsubscribed then you are already subscribed and should be getting your emails every time we post.

[Surrendering]

Hello Dear Stacy,
Do you know that saying (which I'm certain was by an awakened Being) ''Life is what's happening while we are busy making plans''?

I seem to be unable to do quote function of cut and paste on my tablet which is pretty much all I have used for ages. So to answer your questions using this I went to my laptop that's been dormant for about 3 years. Thus began a series of fiasco's and a couple of hours of not getting anywhere. End result was I got a new password to log onto L.U. site on my laptop but it kept saying wrong password. Even after using the eye and verifying it was one sent. I saw something about if this happened to report it to the board but cannot figure out how/where I connect here with the Board.
Perhaps you can help me with this?
Anyway, even though I had what seemed the best plans life was happening in its own way...lol.

Instead of continuing to waste time and since your questions are short and simple I am going to write them in quotation marks and in caps and then answer underneath. You may have deduced that "computer" is not an easy language for me. This personality has had a lifelong aversion to technology. Thus I am so impressed by your use of different colors...lol.
For language clarity and as an identifier in responding to the inquiries the word I indicates my BEing/Awareness.
Okay, without further ado!

1. "HOW WILL LIFE CHANGE?"
As stated in my 3rd post there is an Awareness of Being here now. There was clarity of No I/Me/Self. Life has not changed.

2. "HOW WILL YOU CHANGE?"
In looking came the recognition and then clarity of having No Self. The change continuing to happen here is one of feeling a physical relaxation and expansiveness. Before was a lot of tension and contraction. (I had spent many years doing body Therapies and especially a process called Continuum, this had already clarified the difference in body relaxation or contraction depending on my ability to fully be with whatever was arising or not.) Where there had been experiences of resisting my life as it was, this isn't happening now. In abiding in being and not doing I'm now experiencing life as it is. Seeing seems more vibrant, sounds ring more clearly, there is a sense of full aliveness where before my constant thoughts, beliefs, etc.were like a gray mist muffling my experiences.

3."WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT "
In one way...outer world, nothing is different. From within Everything feels different. Life has taken on a texture, an aliveness in the simplicity of everyday Being. Thoughts still arise but the clinging and, grasping hasn't been happening. Or if it does, it's not sticking. There is a sweet silence and resting this Being doesn't recall experiencing much before.

4. "WHAT IS MISSING"
From the outer worldly view nothing is missing...life simply continues happening as it always has without any I/Me in the way. I/Me is missing, but not missed...lol.

I recognize that as much as this Awakening to No Self is an ending, there is a recognition that it's also a beginning. There is a sense that recognition, clarification and deeper awakenings and awareness are an ongoing process, just as life itself is an ongoing process.

Deep appreciation for your willingness to spend your time guiding others here.
Blessings, Raven

[Surrendering]

Hi Stacy,
Just saw your last message. As you had directed before I went to wrench and there is a checkmark next to subscribe topic...I click on it and for about 30 seconds a white band appears on my tablet...looking like this space am writing on. It disappears and still a checkmark and saying subscribe topic.

My understanding from you is it should now be saying unsubscribe but nothing is changing. Not sure what else to do from here.

Not very knowledgeable about tech. Wondering if it could be my tablet. Wanting to do replies from my PC but as outlined in my last message I couldn't get logged onto L.U. site from there.

Thinking how I titled my thread here Unraveling a tangled life...am feeling pretty untangled here now. Perhaps my new thread is Unraveling tangled technology,!

Will do my best to figure it out and welcome any suggestions for clarifying why password sent not getting me logged in on PC and why cannot get subscribe to shift to unsubscribe.

Gratitude and all the best, Raven

[Surrendering]

Hello again dear Stacy,
Well, it's now saying unsubscribe so I'm guessing there was too much impatience here. Was thinking there would be instant results. An ongoing issue here with technology. Sorry to have blathered on.

Ever more gratitude 🙏 Raven

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Raven

Did you watch the video about the Quote feature?

Read this:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/-fAToDNh9hQ

I'll put guiding in the next post.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Okay, hopefully, you followed the video & can now Quote.

"Technology" as people call it, or "computer literacy" is nothing more than the ability to type by hunt and peck plus the ability to read a menu and make a choice. It's easy.

Sorry you're having trouble. You won't need many posts, as you're already SEEING. If you want me to get an admin to help you I will.

Speaking of making choices...

We have a set of 6 final questions that I will offer you. First I want to check and see where you are about a couple of other aspects of seeing.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Surrendering]

Hello Stacy,
I understand the quote feature, thank you.

For some reason I cannot get my tablet to copy and paste.

I believe I got my PC updated overnight and will be able to use quotes and answer your questions a bit later.

All the best,
Raven

[Surrendering]

Dearest Stacy,
Again I wish to express gratitude for your willingness to be a guide and aiding myself and others moving through the gateless gate.

How is the movement controlled?

It's not controlled, just happening

Does a thought control it?

No! Just for fun I tried thinking..."stop", "don't turn", etc. and of course the hand just continued to turn palm down and then palm up.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Nope

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Definitely no Decision...Life just happening here.
LOL...I am loving seeing that I have absolutely zero control. This being has been trough the 12 step program and one of first things in that is "we made a decision to turn our lives over to God"...no wonder I was stuck on that step forever.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

No idea...the right hand just rose up and began moving

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No. Just as breath breathes, heart beats, blood circulates so did my palm go up and down.

This seeing, the recognition and clarity of No Self is so freeing. To finally be having a quiet space where thinking was dominant is wonderful.

May the Longtime Sun Shine Upon You,
Lovingly, Raven