I'm not separate

[Asheshjain]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Every human believe that there is a separate, individual self, which is responsible for their dids,there is law of karma.one should get purified and get enlighmennt,but actually there is no individual self found.me is not there.

What are you looking for at LU?
I m convinced mentally that individual self don't exist, there is already no me who is responsible for everything ,but still I don't get it by heart, probably not resonating,so by help of some awekened person want to eradicate me or say self

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To know what is me or self.
How to look what is and overlook self.
How awekened person loose their ideas of personal self.
I have talked to many regarding noself concept but not working.
Luchana told me,she may help

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have done vipasyana meditation
Self inquiry, meditation etc.but can't remove separation

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[Luchana]

Hi Asheshjain and welcome to the forum. Glad you made it.

Is this your name? Would you like me to call you like this or do you prefer another name?
Reading your intro this is what needs attention as a start:

I have talked to many regarding noself concept but not working.

Do you believe that there is something called "noself" ?

I m convinced mentally that individual self don't exist, there is already no me who is responsible for everything ,but still I don't get it by heart,

What do you hope will be different after get it by heart?

How will life change?

How will you change?



Take your time.
And please reply each question.


Much love,
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

1-Absence of self is nothingness,but noself is still a concept.
2-sepratiom will fall away.
Seeing through illusory me will fall away.
Expectations may fall down and so agressive ness may also go,peace may be there.

[Luchana]

Hi Asheshjain.

can you please see here how to use the quotes function?
It will be easy for communication
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=16s

1-Absence of self is nothingness,but noself is still a concept.

This is also a concept, and not an experiential recognition.
Our main goal here in the forum is that you see experientialy (not only on the intelectual level) that the I, me, Asheshjain do not exist in reality as a separate entity. All our effords will be in this direction. Here you are not going to find the nothigness or the void or this seeing is not going to give you some super power. It is just the simple fact that there is no I, me, self here to be found; no I, me, self will be found, because none on these have ever existed.

2-sepratiom will fall away.

What makes you think that there is separation to begin with?

How separation is experienced?

Expectations may fall down and so agressive ness may also go,peace may be there.

But there is no you even now and agressiveness happens. Why this should change? Just because you've seen trough the illusion?
Peace may or may not appear. For each one is different and it coudnt be known in advance.
So called unpleasant sensation and thoughts will not stop appearing Some old traumas, patterns or emotional pain may still show up and will need some further work. It's usually easier to work on these after seeing no-self.
Seeing through the self is just the first step, just the beginning, and lots of further looking is needed after, in order for conditionings to gradually fall away. And this 'falling away' can last at the end of the organism.

Also, many emotions are result of conditioned patters stemming from childhood, from traumas, and all sort of personality issues. But these things won't change just because the self is seen through. The personality stays almost completely intact. Lots of further looking is needed to resolve these patters.

Many people expect that to get into a state of having predominantly positive emotions, and not having any unpleasant ones. But seeing through the self is not about not having half of the emotions, and feeling good all the time or most of the time. Not at all. It's about seeing that these emotions doesn't stick to anything... and yet, these emotions arise and will arise.

It will be better to leave all the expectations aside and dive into this inquiry completly fresh.

Please read my comments several times and see your expecrations from a different perspective.

Is there a resistance to any of it?


Are you ready to dive?

Much love
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

Thanks for reply 🙏
There happen to seeing that there is no controller (me).in many activities of body and mind like , breathing, looking, tasting,smelling, walking when look - is there is me?i find no me.but in following conditions-
-Has to finish some task.
- has to reach somewhere in time
- attending some function where me is important.
- expecting some good results
-some one abuses me
- some one humiliate.
- some accident.
In these circumstances self-centred ness occurs.
I feel self is an image and trying to protect this image give pain etc.so how to deal with this self image

[Luchana]

Hi,

a request before we continue.

Please reply to ALL questions in blue one by one and never builk replies.

Please take a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCbZYSvnTpc&t=16s

and learn how to use quote function. It is easy and help a lot in communication.



So let's back to the missed questions:

What makes you think that there is separation to begin with?

How separation is experienced?

-Has to finish some task.
- has to reach somewhere in time
- attending some function where me is important.
- expecting some good results
-some one abuses me
- some one humiliate.
- some accident.
In these circumstances self-centred ness occurs.

How is this ME showing up in experience?
As an image? As a sound? As a sensation?
And where is its precise location?

Take your time
Much love,
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

What makes you think that there is separation to begin with?
my answer--looking that everything is apart from this body , which I call me,thinking, sensing,reacting are different from others,my body is different from others.
Your questions- how separation is experienced--
My answer- there is only experience of my body which end at skin level.its something which feels like "I am".
Can't describe exactly.
Last questions -How is the me showing up an experience
As image/sound/sensation,and where is it's location.
Answer-me is seen as image-my constructed image.
And also sensation in mostly whole body,with some perspiration and sometime with increasing pulse rate.

[Asheshjain]

What makes you think that there is separation to begin with?
my answer--looking that everything is apart from this body , which I call me,thinking, sensing,reacting are different from others,my body is different from others.
Your questions- how separation is experienced--
My answer- there is only experience of my body which end at skin level.its something which feels like "I am".
Can't describe exactly.
Last questions -How is the me showing up an experience
As image/sound/sensation,and where is it's location.
Answer-me is seen as image-my constructed image.
And also sensation in mostly whole body,with some perspiration and sometime with increasing pulse rate.

[Luchana]

Hi,

looking that everything is apart from this body , which I call me,thinking, sensing,reacting are different from others,my body is different from others.

there is only experience of my body which end at skin level.its something which feels like "I am".
Can't describe exactly.

Ok let's investigate in the concept of body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?[/i]


Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

me is seen as image-my constructed image.
And also sensation in mostly whole body,with some perspiration and sometime with increasing pulse rate.

Can you REALY see me as an image?
The way you see the screen right now?
Or you can only THINK of it?


Take your time and reply ALL question in blue - separatly one by one.

Much love,
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

Hello mam, good day.
I seat for 15 minutes as you advised.
Questions-Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Answer- no ,in direct experience from core, observation
Body's height, weight, texture, volume,shape,form can't be known.there is only emptyness.yes but thought and images arises as usual without any control.
Questions-
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Answer-Ther is no boundaries between body and clothing,and between body and chair
Question-is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
Answer-no inside outside.emptyness only
Questions-
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?[/i]
Answer-when seen intrinsically-there is no direct experience of body,only when there is some unusual sensation like tingling or burning or pain or heat or cold than it's felt.beingness or existence has no experience
We can say empty.
But when we use eyes we see different things which are separate with different colours and textures.
Regarding me- I think me in conscious mind can be seen non existing,but probably in sub consciousness mind it may have roots.
With regards and love 🙏

[Luchana]

Hi,

Let's start from the end.

Regarding me- I think me in conscious mind can be seen non existing,but probably in sub consciousness mind it may have roots.

What is mind when you observe it here now?
How mind is experienced exactly?
As an image? As a sound? As a sensation?
Or as imagination?

Body's height, weight, texture, volume,shape,form can't be known.there is only emptyness.yes but thought and images arises as usual without any control.

Good.
What's the problem with thoughts?
Is there an expectation the thoughts and images will stop appearing?
Why would they?

emptyness only

there is only emptyness.

Can you describe what is "emptyness ussing" 5 sences only?

Please relly ALL questions ONE by ONE. Do not bulk the replies


Much love,
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

Hello mam,thanks for reply.
Good day.
Q--What is mind when you observe it here now?
A- Exactly don't know.its an organ like hard disc of computer which runs many programs.
Q-
How mind is experienced exactly?
As an image? As a sound? As a sensation?
Or as imagination?
A- Mind is bundle of thoughts,one may say that thought s are experienced so the mind.mind can't be experienced neither as sound nor as sensation or image.
Q-
What's the problem with thoughts?
Is there an expectation the thoughts and images will stop appearing?
Why would they?
A- no problem with thoughts,but they keep mind thinking, create noise ,but situation is helpless.
Q-Can you describe what is "emptyness ussing" 5 sences only?
A- this is a difficult question,at first it appears that five senses creat noise in emptyness,by sight,sound,smell,taste,and feelings.but what they projecting and perceiving are also empty.
So seeing , listening,smelling - creating various things.
But things are empty.
So what's appears is related to senses and actually empty.its like mind creating matter,from emptyness?
I m little bit confused, you may throw more light on this issue.
Sorry for inconvenience.
Thanks for replying and helping
🙏🙏

[Luchana]

Hi,

A- Mind is bundle of thoughts,one may say that thought s are experienced so the mind.mind can't be experienced neither as sound nor as sensation or image.

Does the bundle of thought exist in reality?
Or it is another thought which says "Mind is bundle of thoughts"?

no problem with thoughts,but they keep mind thinking, create noise ,but situation is helpless.

But how can something which can't be found in experience to do something?
Can a "mind" think when it can't be found to exists in the first place?

What is it that is thinking really?

Does a thought think?

Where is the thinker of thoughts?

What/who is it that is producing thoughts into existence?

I m little bit confused, you may throw more light on this issue.
Sorry for inconvenience.
Thanks for replying and helping

Confusion is ok. It is quite nice even:-) And no problem, there is no inconvenience here.
You are welcome :-)

Please spent a whole day with the questions and reply each question in blue ONE by ONE.

Much love,
Luchana

[Asheshjain]

Hi mam.
Q-Does the bundle of thought exist in reality?
Or it is another thought which says "Mind is bundle of thoughts"?
A-my knowledge about mind is as follows.
Mind is like cpu of body computer.where information is
Processed,modified and manipulated.
For example when colour are seen, actually light frequency are seen,which when reach tk brain,brain manipulate it and says it's colours.thus mind perceive various colours- actually there is no colours.mind is weird power in beingness ,which project, process and perceive beingness, into various objects say things.thus mind modulate nothing into things.
So in realty no thoughts or bundle of thoughts exist,but mind project like this.
Q-But how can something which can't be found in experience to do something?
Can a "mind" think when it can't be found to exists in the first place?
A-as per my knowledge, thoughts are generated in brain from memory.as mind don't have its own nerve supply so we can't directly experience it,but all our experience are possible due to mind(brain),may be we can say thoughts are generated reflexly as per need.
Q-What is it that is thinking really?
A- thinking is spontaneous happening without any control.
Q-Does a thought think?
No thought can't
Q-Where is the thinker of thoughts?
A- Nowhere.
Q-What/who is it that is producing thoughts into existence?
A- spontaneously.
#you asked me -how emptiness described ,using five senses- I don't exactly find answer.kindly explain.
Respect,🙏

[Luchana]

Hi,

I will address fear, becuase of what you've share with me in messages.

So, let's look at this sensation, called fear.

"Fear of loosing me and forgetting who am I"

It's nothing more than a story. Look arround, there is no you even now and everything is completly fine. Why should this change? Nothing's wrong or dangerous is going to happen, because it is already the case - there is no one who can go mad or who can lose its self.
Fear is just a protecting mehanism, it is protecting something from being found out.
You can stay for a while with it. Bring these scary images and storries which come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.

If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and mental images what is BEHIND the fear?


Look very carefully.

Much love,
Luchana