Almost there

[warissem]

Hi Pankaj

First of all, when I give you an exercise, you do it in practice not in your mind. You have not wrote down what you have seen, heard, smelt during your walk in the park. Anyway there is an important exercise for you :

The answers must come after having LOOKED at what is going on, not through reasoning and thinking.

1. Can you see a self making you leave the bed? or get up from the chair ?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body get up? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body?

2. 'On a count of 5, raise either your left or right arm, or not.' Is there a chooser ?

3. Can you choose to fall asleep? Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

4. Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

5. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

6. Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

7. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?

8. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?

What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Hi Warissem,

First of all, when I give you an exercise, you do it in practice not in your mind. You have not wrote down what you have seen, heard, smelt during your walk in the park.

Sorry to have not responded according to your expectations. I find it practically difficult because if I describe everything - the content of my perception even for a 15 minutes walk, it will be too much data. Secondly given that I write to you after a few hours of my walk, it will be written from my memory only which is from my mind in any case.
Anyway, I will try my best this time.

1. Can you see a self making you leave the bed? or get up from the chair ?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up come from? What makes the body get up? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body?

No I don’t see a self making me leave the bed or getting up from the chair. But I saw (observed) a thought appearing as an intention to do so before actually doing it. The decision also appeared as a thought. I won’t say that thought commanded the body but the body followed the thought of decision.

2. 'On a count of 5, raise either your left or right arm, or not.' Is there a chooser ?

No I don’t see a chooser but again a very quick thought of decision preceded the actual act of raising the hand.

3. Can you choose to fall asleep? Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

No, I can’t choose to fall asleep. It happens on its own accord. I have tried this but I can’t find a point or the moment when consciousness becomes sleep.

4. Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

I tried this a few times. At certain times I could choose the content for example I decided to think of a tree and the thought of tree appeared as an image in mind. But then many more thoughts also followed which I had not chosen. In general, I can say that I can’t always choose my thoughts and I have no control over how thoughts appear.

5. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

No, I can’t choose the quality of physical sensations.

6. Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

No, I can’t choose the next emotion. I tried by recollecting a pleasant memory and that gave rise to a pleasant emotion but I can’t say that specific emotion was chosen by me.

7. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?

I chose 16 and it happened as soon as I read your question. If there is a point it is just finishing reading and understanding the question. I had no idea what number I would choose before actually choosing it.

8. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?

I am answering this immediately after doing it so the memory is still fresh. I started by focussing on the question where my attention was. Soon the attention started moving from thought to thought as they started appearing on their own and sometimes to the body sensations as they appeared. From time to time I could bring back my attention to my breath and to the question where my attention was going.

What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

At a certain time, a decision thought to move the attention to the question appeared and that moved the attention. But mostly the attention followed a particular thought or a body sensation. There was no chooser of where the attention would go as there was no chooser of what thought or sensation would appear.

Regards.
Pankaj

[warissem]

Hi Pankaj

I tried this a few times. At certain times I could choose the content for example I decided to think of a tree and the thought of tree appeared as an image in mind.

You said “I decided to think of a tree then a thought of a tree appeared” don’t you see that the thought “I decided to think of a tree” has already arisen when you see it. There is no you to think a thought.

I am answering this immediately after doing it so the memory is still fresh. I started by focussing on the question where my attention was. Soon the attention started moving from thought to thought as they started appearing on their own and sometimes to the body sensations as they appeared. From time to time I could bring back my attention to my breath and to the question where my attention was going.

There is no you to bring attention back.

This is an exercise to look closer at choice and control :

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Hi Warissem,

You said “I decided to think of a tree then a thought of a tree appeared” don’t you see that the thought “I decided to think of a tree” has already arisen when you see it. There is no you to think a thought.

Ah, yes, this pointer did the trick. I realise that I was giving special status to certain thoughts like decisions, intentions and attention but I realise now that these are also as much thoughts as others that follow them. And there is no thinker of even these thoughts. Thoughts appear on their own. No need of any “I”. This is a big relief.
Now this realisation is also a thought because there is no one to realise anything. But this thought takes power out of other thoughts especially the “I” creating thoughts like intention and attention.

After this, the palm turning exercise which you suggested is perhaps not necessary because I understand that there is no controller, no decision-maker to turn the palm up and down. Thoughts and actions are happening without any ‘one’ behind them.

Now it feels like I have to marinate in this thought that there is no ‘me’. And this is also a thought, but this is what is appearing as of now.

Thanks a lot for your help to get to this point.
Is there something else, which needs to be done? Nothing is missing as there is no one to miss anything. :)

Regards.
Pankaj

[warissem]

Good morning

Great. Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?

Is seeking still going on ? If so, what is missing ?
If not, are you ready for the final questions ?

Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Hi Warrisem,

Great. Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?

As of now, it is clear that a separate self is an illusion. Though I still have to remind myself often of this fact. I guess it is just a question of changing an old habit of thinking happening in a certain way.

Is seeking still going on ? If so, what is missing ?

The seeking thoughts may appear from time to time like all other thoughts but there is no seeker. Similarly, the thoughts of missing something may appear but there is no one to miss anything.

If not, are you ready for the final questions ?

Yes, I am ready for the final questions.

Regards.
Pankaj.

[warissem]

Hi Pankaj

These are the final questions, ponder about them then elaborate on your answers.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Warissem

[warissem]

Hi Pankaj

These are the final questions, ponder about them then elaborate on your answers.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Hi Warrisem,

Here is doing my best to answer the questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no ’self’, ‘I’ or ‘me’ anywhere. It is not that ‘I’ has disappeared. It was never there in the first place. What was there was a strong thought that there must be someone doing actions and thinking the thoughts. This thought has now lost its power.

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of a separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of self is identification with the thought ‘I'. At the core is a belief that there must be someone who thinks and acts. These identification and beliefs are also thoughts. By an honest inquiry, it is seen that these are just thoughts and there is no thinker behind them. The difference is only in dropping of this assumption that there must be a thinker behind thought and there must be an experiencer having an experience

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There are feelings of lightness and relief but there is no one to feel them.
When I started the dialogue, there was hope that somehow I will ‘get’ it. Even earlier, I was quite convinced intellectually that it is true that there is no separate self in any form, but there was a feeling that it is just an intellectual understanding.

Initially, my guide asked me to look as a direct experience and find if there is an ‘I’ and I was insistent that it is ‘I’ who is even trying to look or having the intention to look. Now I see that there is no one required to have the intention as it can arise in response to a question.

As far as my worldly conduct and behavior and interaction with others is concerned, there is no difference and no one else has noted any difference. It is like an internal shift. Even in terms of what thoughts appear in this mind, there is no noticeable difference. Just that there is no thinker behind them.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

I realised that I was giving too much importance to certain thoughts like intention, attention, and decision. It was felt that there was an agency that was in control of these thoughts for example there is a ‘me’ which can and is moving the attention from one object to another or from one thought to another. Once it is realised that the attention is also a thought, it was seen that there was no one behind it. It moves like all other thoughts. This was the last bit that made the shift.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Decision, intention, free will, choice, and control are thoughts like any other thought. And they also appear and disappear like any other thought. I was able to see other thoughts as appearing and disappearing on their own but for some of these sticky thoughts, I had given special status. Once it was seen that these are also thoughts and there is no need for someone behind them the idea of ‘me’ was dismantled.

Everything in life and in this world happens without any doer. We can easily see nature happening on its own for example wind flowing, flower flowering, and clouds moving without any doer behind them. But when it comes to our own thoughts and action, somehow we don’t accept that they are also happening without any doer. Now there is an acceptance that these sticky thoughts are also happening as natural phenomena like breathing and sleeping.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

As there is no me, there is no responsibility. Life takes care of itself, like this body breaths, sleeps, wakes up, eats and excretes by itself without any doer behind it like all other natural phenomena. Usually, when it comes to thought, it is difficult to accept that they also happen like other bodily functions without any thinker behind them. Now there is an understanding that there is no one in control of thoughts also. The normal life continues with appropriate thoughts and actions appearing in response to stimulus as required and there is no one responsible for them.

6) Anything to add?

I am very grateful to my guide Warissem who persisted with me patiently even though I was not that serious and regular in my correspondence from time to time. Even though this gratefulness is also a thought, but there is no conflict here in using practical language and conveying that I am grateful.

Regards.
Pankaj

[warissem]

Good morning

Thanks for the answers, I submit your post to other guides for further questions if any.

Have a nice day

Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Good morning Warissem,

Thanks a lot for your help all these days.

Warm wishes and regards.

Pankaj

[warissem]

Good morning

wish you happy new year, you will be invited to join Unleashed groups in facebook.

Warissem

[PankajDixit]

Good morning Warissem.

Thanks. I have now received the invitation to join FB group and I look forward to it.

Also wish you a happy new year.

Regards.
Pankaj.