I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

It belongs to thought, but it feels to be well intertwined with reality.

Ali, when you take your hat or (sun)glasses off, sometimes there is the sensation that they are still on. Have you had that experience ?

Yes.

How do you react to the sensation when you know that it's just a residual sensation ?

I just keep feeling it.

[vinceschubert]

But you know that it's just sensation. You dont go out in the sun thinking that you are protected, do you?

[Noobstorm]

But you know that it's just sensation. You dont go out in the sun thinking that you are protected, do you?

No.

[vinceschubert]

You recognise it for an illusion, right ?
Isn't sensations that have been generated by believing in the story of self the same thing ?
Aren't thoughts of Self the same thing ?
It's all conditioned reflexes, right ?

[Noobstorm]

You recognise it for an illusion, right ?
Yes

Isn't sensations that have been generated by believing in the story of self the same thing ?
Except the sensations come from a belief in a self.

Aren't thoughts of Self the same thing ?
Yes, they come from the belief in a self thinking them.

It's all conditioned reflexes, right ?
I suppose so.

[vinceschubert]

the sensations come from a belief in a self

...and if the self is a story, then the sensations come from a belief in a story of self.
Real responses occur from believing in a concept. This makes the concept seem more real. It solidifies the illusion.
Are you protecting something, a self ?
Is it a real something, or just ideas that seem real ?
The real remains even after it is not believed in.
The unreal, the conceptual, evaporates when it is not believed in.
If you remove belief in your self, what remains ?

[Noobstorm]

Are you protecting something, a self ?

No.

Is it a real something, or just ideas that seem real ?

The self only happens in thoughts and feelings, so I suppose they could be ideas that seem real.

If you remove belief in your self, what remains ?

Experience.

[vinceschubert]

Is an experiencer separate from the experiencing ?
Who or what is experiencing ?

[Noobstorm]

Is an experiencer separate from the experiencing ?

If you take away one of the sense organs in the body or plug up nose/ears/etc. then it can't be experienced, so I suppose they are separate.

Who or what is experiencing ?

The human being.

[Noobstorm]

Vince, are you willing to guide me on the flash chat so this can be sped up? For me, a good day for that would be today or tomorrow.

[vinceschubert]

Ok, let me put it a different way. You are experiencing now, where is the experiencing happening ?

Willing to do flash chat, but probably can't get to it before about Tuesday.

[Noobstorm]

Ok, let me put it a different way. You are experiencing now, where is the experiencing happening ?

It is happening in the human being.

Willing to do flash chat, but probably can't get to it before about Tuesday.

Sounds good. What time?

[vinceschubert]

It is happening in the human being.

Define the 'human being'.

Sounds good. What time?

What time zone are you in. i am +10gmt (Sydney time)

[Noobstorm]

Define the 'human being'.

A person; man, woman, or child.

What time zone are you in. i am +10gmt (Sydney time)

GMT - 7

[vinceschubert]

vinceschubert wrote:Define the 'human being'.
Ali said; A person; man, woman, or child.

A person, a man, a woman, a child are all sub-categories of homo sapien. Let's get away from dictionary definitions and get to real mind/body organisms.
Where is the "person" there ?
Where is the "I" or Self ? in that organism ?
Does it happen (the experiencing) in the body of the organism ?
Is it experienced as thoughts(mind) ?