Letting go

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,
Here are my answers to the other guides' questions.

Please look and write a description of what can be seen right now?

I see a visual field of things. They look much the same as they always did. It's like I understand the things that are seen are just a field of images, but I don't see it. They look the same.

How would you describe this seeing no self to someone who has never heard of this?

When I look for what I think of when I think 'Me', I can't find anything. There are thoughts of things that are associated with the title 'Me': an appearance of a body; sensations which appear to be connected to the image of a body; memories; thoughts about patterns of thinking and behaviour; but nothing that holds all these things together, as was my previous perception. However, when I stop looking for a self and am just going about my daily activities, or engaging in conversation, the sense of self reappears intermittently, but when I try to focus on what it is, there's nothing to be found.

Another guide wants to be sure that you are clear that both "past lives" and "dependent arising" are just content of thought, concepts with no more reality than "self." Can you see this?

There is no way of knowing whether these have any reality. I can see that 'past lives' is speculation, because the concept of it is based on others' accounts and stories. So yes, now I also see that dependent arising is also just a story, as there is no direct perception of it, or indeed of theories of quantum physics, astrophysics, Buddha, his teachings, or most of the other stuff that is thought to be known and upon which a 'coherent' theory of how the universe and reality exist and function has been constructed in 'my' thoughts.

So much grasping arising! I have liked having something like a universal theory! And to accept that I know nothing beyond direct perceptions feels now like a great loss; to have spent most of my adult life studying, learning and practicing, just to get to a place where I accept that I don't know anything apart from that I don't know it!
And it also raises fear. Fear like I've run off the top of a cliff and am peddling in thin air.
There is a strong resistance to letting go of everything at the moment. It suddenly feels like losing everything, although I understand there was nothing there to lose. Just mental constructions. Recent experience of family members' sufferings has led to a lot of uncertainty, worries and a sense of vulnerability, which is feeding into this.
I'm not giving up, though.
I'm at work tomorrow and Friday and will get onto doing the time questions at the weekend.
With much love and gratitude xxx

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

when I stop looking for a self and am just going about my daily activities, or engaging in conversation, the sense of self reappears intermittently

The accurate way to say this is that you stop looking at Direct Experience and start believing the lies & stories of content of thought. There's no "self" to have any sense of. It makes no sense! Literally, the 5 senses.

Where is "self" in Seeing, Hearing, Feeling (things a body feels hot/cold, light/heavy, dry/wet, etc, Tasting or Smelling? Did you suddenly start Smelling or Tasting a "self? "

Please look and write a description of what can be seen right now?
I see a visual field of things. They look much the same as they always did. It's like I understand the things that are seen are just a field of images, but I don't see it. They look the same.

Did you forget to reply with only Actual Experience? I have no idea in AE what a "visual field" means.

There is no way of knowing whether these have any reality.

Yes there is. "Real" is defined as Direct or Actual Experience. For something, a "self," a past, an origination, to be "real," it must be more than a made- up story. It must be seen, heard, felt, smelled, or tasted. These aren't. They're not real.

The same is true of suffering. Yes, there are body Sensations, true, but suffering is made up of stories.

"Reality is kinder than your thinking, "as Byron Katie likes to say. LOOK & you'll find this is true.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

There is a strong resistance to letting go of everything at the moment. It suddenly feels like losing everything, although I understand there was nothing there to lose. Just mental constructions. Recent experience of family members' sufferings has led to a lot of uncertainty, worries and a sense of vulnerability, which is feeding into this.

I'm not giving up, though.

And yeah...

"An accurate ad for enlightenment would make the toughest marine blanche. There is no higher stakes game in this world or any other, in this dimension or any other.The price of truth is everything, but no one knows what everything means until they're paying it."

~ Jed McKenna
Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing

"In Japanese monasteries, they warn you not to come in."

~ Natalie Goldberg
"Thunder & Lightening: Cracking Open the Writer's Craft"

Note I sent 2 replies.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Did you see this?

https://m.facebook.com/events/580781769 ... 5186337958

Third weekend of every month

Saturday 6 pm-8 pm British time, 18th Dec

Sunday, 10 am-12 am British time, 19th Dec

You can join both days or one depending your time zone.

The meetings will be led by Liberation Unleashed guides

[Anastacia42]

Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3718929853?pw ... BoUUNwUT09 Meeting ID: 371 892 9853 Passcode: HmbSF4

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,
Thanks for all your replies.

"when I stop looking for a self and am just going about my daily activities, or engaging in conversation, the sense of self reappears intermittently"
The accurate way to say this is that you stop looking at Direct Experience and start believing the lies & stories of content of thought. There's no "self" to have any sense of. It makes no sense! Literally, the 5 senses.
Where is "self" in Seeing, Hearing, Feeling (things a body feels hot/cold, light/heavy, dry/wet, etc), Tasting or Smelling? Did you suddenly start Smelling or Tasting a "self?"

I guess mean thoughts of 'I', 'me', 'mine' reappear.
There is no self in Direct Experience.

Please look and write a description of what can be seen right now?
"I see a visual field of things. They look much the same as they always did. It's like I understand the things that are seen are just a field of images, but I don't see it. They look the same."
Did you forget to reply with only Actual Experience? I have no idea in AE what a "visual field" means.

By 'visual field' I meant a pattern of images/colour that fill the field of vision.

"The price of truth is everything, but no one knows what everything means until they're paying it."
~ Jed McKenna

Hmmm. Feeling kind of like Cypher when I read that! "If you'd told us the truth, we would have told you to shove that red pill right up your ass!" Ha ha!
I see now why doubt is the second fetter 😂
I haven't forgotten I still have the time exercise to do.
xxx

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

Whenever you feel like it.

Yes, some people see, then doubt.

How is that going? Wouldn't you like to get clear & wrap up? As I've said, I'll still be around. Not only that, but you'll have access to others who have seen.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Reposting this, so it's easy to find.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Let me know what is found.

And when you feel complete, although doubt may not disappear entirely, I'm going to ask you to answer the final questions again & share them with other guides for confirmation again.

Loving

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,

Time Exercise
There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.
But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No. Just different appearances arising.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No. Just appearances now, and memories of things which have cease to appea.r

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It's not moving at all.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Either no time, or it's beginning-less and endless

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

As above.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Constantly.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

It's just memories, which are thoughts, so it doesn't exist at all in actual experience.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Just thoughts about time.

Let me know what is found.

There is only now. 'Past' and 'future' only exist as thoughts.

How is that going? Wouldn't you like to get clear & wrap up? As I've said, I'll still be around. Not only that, but you'll have access to others who have seen.

Yes, it would be good to wrap up.
Many thanks again for all your help and kindness xxx

[Padmasukha]

Hi again,

"I see now why doubt is the second fetter 😂"

Yes, some people see, then doubt.

I was thinking of this in terms of faith.
I had a friend who used to say "Everything you know is wrong." In the sense that we never have a complete picture of how things truly are.
Even our direct experience is "a lie", in the sense that it doesn't reveal its mode of existence.

"The price of truth is everything, but no one knows what everything means until they're paying it."
~ Jed McKenna

It seems that when it's seen that we can't know anything beyond direct experience, and that everything we think we know is illusory and so "wrong" or "a lie", there must be a great danger of falling into nihilism and feeling/thinking there is no point to anything.
So my thought about Jed's quote was that the second fetter to break is doubt because we need faith if we are to continue on the path; to get on to breaking through the other fetters.
xxx

[Anastacia42]

Hi Steph,

second fetter to break is doubt because we need faith if we are to continue on the path; to get on to breaking through the other fetters.

I consider faith to be a false belief in our thoughts. Something to let go of, more than something you cling to

So, good. You're doing time clearly & seeing that memory is also just thought.

To wrap up. please answer the final questions again here, taking into account all you have seen



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi again,

I almost forgot to address your thought about nihilism. Yes, that can be a phase people go through. I don't see it as "dangerous." Eventually, there's a lot if compassion for how unnecessarily others suffer. It's one of the reasons I guide, to share the way out of suffering.

Loving,

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy,
Thanks for your replies. It's interesting to read your thoughts about faith, nihilism and compassion.
I'm working through the final questions again, and will post as soon as I've finished answering them all.
With much love and gratitude xxx

[Padmasukha]

Hi Stacy. Christmas and work have been taking up my time! I will get to this soon.
With love and thanks, Steph xxx

[Anastacia42]

Thanks for letting me know.

Loving,