OK

[Ovidius]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I totally agree that there is no 'inherent self', but rather a collection or cluster of experiences that a 'personal self', or separate self uses to generate a persona identity that shows up as an I thought, or Me.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for partners on the path of living from an infinite, spacious Self. To clear contractions that I've given power to that creates suffering..
To learn from those who have lived through the gate

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect support in dissolving the attachment to a personal self (that does not exist), to live more as Life living me. I find I shift into an open, deeply relaxed and joyous state frequently. The egoic 'I' keeps showing up in ways that I think guided conversations could assist in resolving/healing.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have extensive experience for 20 plus years. I practice Self inquiry and meditation. Have been a healer and therapist for many years.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Luchana]

Hi Don,

here is a question for you whiile we are waitng for our video meeting.

What are you looking for precisely?



Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Don,

here is an exersice for you after our meeting yestarday.

Let’s do some more investigation in thought and especially thought about “me, “I”, self/

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5-10 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened)

Take you time and let me know what you find.

Much love,
Luchana

[Ovidius]

First time doing the exercise, the majority of thoughts in the 10 minutes were on the Self side, almost 4 to 1 me/I thoughts. Will continue to do each day and report.

[Luchana]

Hi Don.

First time doing the exercise, the majority of thoughts in the 10 minutes were on the Self side, almost 4 to 1 me/I thoughts. Will continue to do each day and report.

Nice :-) so 4 thought about a "self/me" and 1 for "other"?
I am curious can you give example about this "other" thought?
And also did you manage to do the exercise again? And how did it end?


Much love,
Luchana

[Ovidius]

Hi Luchana

I did the exercise a 2nd time, but first to answer your question of an example of a thought of other. most would be from a sound heard, so the other would be what was heard, a dog, a horn, car etc. If these also qualify as Me/self thoughts then very rarely a thought of something that didn't have a me tagging along with it.

In the 2nd round, out of all the thoughts only few were of other, if what I heard and its thought are still considered me thoughts.

thanks for your support

[Luchana]

Hi Don,

In the 2nd round, out of all the thoughts only few were of other, if what I heard and its thought are still considered me thoughts.

Actually when investigated these few are also related to the self, to "me" in a hidden way.

All thoughts are related to the self. And there is NO EXEPTION.


How does it feel to see this?


Much love,
Luchana

[Ovidius]

Hi Luchana,
Thanks for your continued assistance. :)

How does it feel to see that all thoughts are Self thoughts?
It is freeing and liberating and scary to a Me with a lot of but, but.....
Will look further....

[Ovidius]

Hi Luchana,
Thanks for your continued assistance. :)

How does it feel to see that all thoughts are Self thoughts?
It is freeing and liberating and scary to a Me with a lot of but, but.....
Will look further....

[Luchana]

Hi Don.

here are some questions to play until we meet.

It is freeing and liberating and scary to a Me with a lot of but, but.....

Who or what can be free or not free?

Who or what is scary?


How is "but'" thought experienced exactly?

What is the but thought made of?



Much love,
Luchana

[Ovidius]

Who or what can be free or not free?

Who or what is scary?

When I really look there is no one that can be free; just a thought that interrupts life

The same for scary, but if I believed the thought there can be a contraction as a sensation, which I took time to feel and inquire into.

How is "but'" thought experienced exactly?
What is the but thought made of?

Looking/feeling into the 'but' thought I found it to be a process stopper, or a better expression, A distraction from Life happening as this....., But is made of nothing but an empty thought that when really looking into it is a thought that stops any further looking and proceeds to make up stories. I see 'But' now as a dangerous word that offers no value and tends to invalidate what preceded it. To the end of all my 'Buts' :)

[Luchana]

Hi Don,

The same for scary, but if I believed the thought there can be a contraction as a sensation, which I took time to feel and inquire into.

Wonderful. Yes, thoughts seemingly have a conection with sensation that arisses, but notice is it scary for these sensations to be here? What makes them yours? Is it known when they will appear before they appear? - investigate this for a whole day

Looking/feeling into the 'but' thought I found it to be a process stopper

- Yes,somethinge like stopp looking start thinking :) Notice that "but" cannot change what is here now? But - has a power in the past and in the feature , can you see this?
Notice the weather through window - is there "but" or there is just what is?

A distraction from Life happening as this....

Exelent.Meet this distraction, feel it. And notice Is there an you behind distruction?,
To whom this distraction belongs to? Who knows this?
Does the distraction has a power to make a real "Me"?

Much love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi Don.

after our meeting last night here is an exercise to explore.
Sit for 10-15 min somewhere quietly.

Can you close your eyes for a while and think about a spoon. Imagine that you are holding a spoon in your hand.
Imagine the spoons form, its size, its weight, its temperature.
Look and feel at ​the imaginary spoon for a while.Then open your eyes .

What happened to the spoon?

is there a spoon here, in real life?

Now go to the kitchen and take a real spoon. Hold it in your hand and experience it fully.
Feel the texture, the coldness, look at its size and shape. Hold the real spoon for a while.
And than look at these questions and describe what is experienced.

Are the image of the spoon and the experience of the spoon the same?

Does a THOUGHT of a spoon makes the spoon REAL?


Take your time and have fun :-)

Much love
Luchana

[Ovidius]

all troubles, all problems, all stories - where is the I, me in all this?
Is there an I, me outside of all this? Is there an I, me outside of thoughts?
What is Don without the story, without thoughts?
Is there Don?

You want some more exercises? Here it is.
Does thinking require a thinker or is it just thinking?

Does feeling require a feeler or is it just feeling happening?

Is anybody required for treeing the tree or is it just treeing?

It rains. Does it require a doer to rain?

Luchana, since our last meeting I've been looking deeply into the questions and I've put in quotes your questions.
When I look for the 'I', 'Me' in the story, I come up empty, just space, openness.
What is Don without the story, at first looking brings up an energy contraction sensation, looking into this, it appears this is the accumulative energy, tension from living from believing in the Thought Don. A sort of history of tension caused by believing the Don story in 'life'. I look deeply into the contraction, letting the contraction sense me loving it, hearing it, open to its wisdom. This releases the contraction and a return to a natural space, open, empty shines through.
Looking and sensing deeper into; no thinker, no feeler, no doer happens with any aspect of thinking, emotion, or experience. Just Don, 'doning' like the tree treeing and the rain, raining.

[Ovidius]

Can you look and reply - was there a me, Don ever?
What is Don responsible for?
How the decisions are made - starting from the simple ones and looking at the so called biggest.
How does it work?
What makes things happen?

Believing in the Thought Don, I've caused my suffering by believing Don was responsible for everything I know this not to be true, there is no Don to be found when looking behind. Although feeling responsible and guilty has been a big story of Don, but only a story now! Many years ago, I left a group because it became a cult, even though I was the co-founder of the group. in the end the cult accused me of being the sole link between evil and earth, responsible for all wars, illness and pestilent. That situation played into the 'Me' belief I'm doing life wrong. :)

I have had a belief that I made decisions and I made things happen or not happen. As I look deeply, I see this is where the illusion of Me, a separate self hides out. Unchecked, a constant tension and constriction. It is very freeing to be with what this is protecting, to let the constriction of 'doing it wrong' feel heard and loved as it is. Waves of release follow when I sense what is behind and what does this constriction need to return to its natural state.