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[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

It happens to me (self). I'm creating my own suffering, easy to see.

Now look for this self that is creating its own suffering… where is this self?

Can you actually observe a self in the process of creating its own suffering?

How does it do that?

Is there actually a doer, a creator of suffering?

I'm anxious (self).

Look for the one that is anxious… what do you find?

Where do you find the anxious self? Where is its location?

I don't like it, referring to (self).

Now, look for the self that doesn’t like anxiety. Where do you find it… the one that doesn’t like it?

You really have to look. It’s very easy to fool ourselves by mistaking our intellectual understanding of there being no separate self for actually seeing…. You have to see it, REALLY see it.

So is this a spiritual process?

Spiritual process?? Isn’t this just a learned concept? What does that even mean?

And process for WHO?

Something to gain in the future?
A process to get somewhere in the future?
To become someone else in the future?
To feel differently in the future?

Vivien

[justthis]

Now look for this self that is creating its own suffering… where is this self?

,

Every time there is a looking for this self I can never find it, its like it disappears, and what I think to be self when it happens seems to be a made up of energy, that's what it feels like too. It also looks like an identity that comes and goes. It doesn't appear to be anywhere else but in thought.

Can you actually observe a self in the process of creating its own suffering?

I'm not sure what, but something observes/witnesses the negative energy and thoughts forming.

How does it do that?

I don't know how it does it, it just happens, its like its automatic.

Is there actually a doer, a creator of suffering?

if your talking about an actual physical thing I can touch I've never seen a separate doer, but the body does a lot of doing of course, just like now as this body is typing this response. Without a body doing this there would be no typing. the suffering seems to be (when its occurring) coming out of an energy that latches onto thoughts and emotions and takes them for a ride...but I see no doer, its invisible. But as you said to stay in what's happening right now and not in the memory of something that happened in the past.

Look for the one that is anxious… what do you find?

I don't see an actual "one" that is anxious, what is found right now is no witnessing of anxiousness. Not even a wanting to look there.

Where do you find the anxious self? Where is its location?

if it has a location I don't know where that is right now, it doesn't seem to have a location.

Now, look for the self that doesn’t like anxiety. Where do you find it… the one that doesn’t like it?

I cannot find it anywhere at the moment. there's just nothing else.

You really have to look. It’s very easy to fool ourselves by mistaking our intellectual understanding of there being no separate self for actually seeing…. You have to see it, REALLY see it.

If there is an actual separate self, I'm serious when I say I cannot see one. Up until now there had been suffering in this body mentally and emotionally, if that's called a separate self than yes that occurred. I still cannot see a separate entity called self, where would it be separate from? how could there be an outside anything?

Spiritual process?? Isn’t this just a learned concept? What does that even mean?

But isn't anything shared or learned that we give meaning to just as empty? that has been seen here. I have no idea other than what I've been told somewhere along the way what spirituality or being spiritual even means. Someone might call me stupid but seriously I have no more idea what that means than what biosphere means.

And process for WHO?

I don't see a who right now.

Something to gain in the future?

I don't see a future in now where something is gained, the future would be imagining something in the future. where would that even be? except in thought.

A process to get somewhere in the future?

I'm really not even interested in something happening in an imaginary future.

To become someone else in the future?

I enjoy doing what's right in front of me rather than being lost in thought of an imaginary future of being someone else.

To feel differently in the future?

Feelings are enough just rising on their own, I have no control of that.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

Every time there is a looking for this self I can never find it, its like it disappears, and what I think to be self when it happens seems to be a made up of energy, that's what it feels like too.

Made up of energy?

How do you experience that self-energy?
As colours? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?

I'm not sure what, but something observes/witnesses the negative energy and thoughts forming.

Negative energy??

How do you experience a ‘negative energy’?

If you don’t rely on thoughts, how do you know that it’s ‘negative’?

the suffering seems to be (when its occurring) coming out of an energy that latches onto thoughts and emotions and takes them for a ride..

Energy latches onto thoughts? Do you really experience this?
Isn’t this just an imagination?

What is the difference between imagining (thinking) and experiencing?

I don't see an actual "one" that is anxious, what is found right now is no witnessing of anxiousness. Not even a wanting to look there.

What is it in experience that doesn’t want to look there (at anxiety)?

Do you see that you personify this witnessing?

Is witnessing / noticing doing the not wanting to look there?

If there is an actual separate self, I'm serious when I say I cannot see one. Up until now there had been suffering in this body mentally and emotionally, if that's called a separate self than yes that occurred. I still cannot see a separate entity called self, where would it be separate from? how could there be an outside anything?

Yes, but you still believe in the existence of a separate self in your everyday life who suffers, don’t you?

Please make sure that you are very honest with yourself.

I enjoy doing what's right in front of me rather than being lost in thought of an imaginary future of being someone else.
Just notice the belief here.. the belief that there is someone who could be lost in thoughts.

Where is that one? The one that is coming in and out of thoughts?

What is it exactly that is lost in thought?

And please don’t say that this is just common language thing… it’s more than that….

Feelings are enough just rising on their own, I have no control of that.

Oh… so there is an I, just this I has no control. Is that so?

Where is the one that has no control?

Again, this is more than just a language thing.

Vivien

[justthis]

Made up of energy?

There's isn't knowing of energy here, it was a word that was learned to point to something that I thought I knew about. I've been giving meaning to many words I know nothing about.

How do you experience that self-energy?

By thought only, its just a story told over and over again going nowhere.

As colors? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?

I may be mistaking the senses for energy in these questions.

If you don’t rely on thoughts, how do you know that it’s ‘negative'?

Well I wouldn't know, because there's no label I wouldn't know how to talk about it, It would just be felt.

How do you experience a ‘negative energy’?

Some feelings are felt in the body as negative, as uncomfortable. But I don't see there being such a thing as negative or positive energy, maybe neutral.

Made up of energy?

There's isn't knowing of energy here, it was a word that was learned to point to something that I thought I knew about. I've been giving meaning to many words I know nothing about.

How do you experience that self-energy?

By thought only, its just a story told over and over again going nowhere.

As colors? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?

I may be mistaking the senses for energy in these questions.

If you don’t rely on thoughts, how do you know that it’s ‘negative'?

Well I wouldn't know, because there's no label I wouldn't know how to talk about it, It would just be felt.

How do you experience a ‘negative energy’?

Some feelings are felt in the body as negative, as uncomfortable. But I don't see there being such a thing as negative or positive energy, maybe neutral.

Energy latches onto thoughts? Do you really experience this?

I don't know what I was thinking, It was worded wrong. No that's not the way it is experienced here. What's experienced here is thoughts appearing and being believed in until there not, energy is just another concept.

Isn’t this just an imagination?

Yes it absolutely is, I was sitting here looking at how ridiculous these believed in thoughts can be, with reality nowhere in sight...

What is the difference between imagining (thinking) and experiencing?

Thinking is imaginary and Experiencing is not. Thinking about going to work is not going to work, But going to work is experiencing going to work.

What is it in experience that doesn’t want to look there (at anxiety)?

Its not that experiencing doesn't want to look there. (my wording is not as clear as Id like it to be) When there's just experiencing life as it is there's just no anxiety, its when there is A FEELING of anxiousness however slight it is, there are thoughts of wanting out of this anxiousness and that creates more anxiousness and more thoughts increasing the anxiety until it becomes a panic attack.

Do you see that you personify this witnessing?

So in short I give it an identity, giving it a life of its own? Yes I can see that I personify this witnessing and the doer also. But I can also see that by admitting that, there's no need for a witnessing when life is just "what is now".

Is witnessing / noticing doing the not wanting to look there?

Yes it does appear to be, yes that seems to happen a lot.

Yes, but you still believe in the existence of a separate self in your everyday life who suffers, don’t you?

I think I've been telling myself for a long time that there isn't a separate self that is suffering. I've listened to so many people in this non-duality movement tell me that there is no self, never was and never will be, that its a total illusion, I believed them because I wanted it to be true. How do you define self? maybe my definition is way off...

Where is that one? The one that is coming in and out of thoughts?

its just thoughts and more thoughts talking about there being one coming in and out of thoughts, its all mind movies...

What is it exactly that is lost in thought?

I was referring to what is now in experience rather than being caught up in imagination. just my wordy expression of the calmness experienced.

Oh… so there is an I, just this I has no control. Is that so?

I wasn't referring to an I, sometimes when I'm using the word I I'm speaking from nothingness, It sensed somehow.

Where is the one that has no control?

I was referring to not having any control over thoughts, feelings, that they happen on their own, I can never tell you what my next thought or feeling is going to be. its just what is seen, I wasn't implying there was an I, though the word was used.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

I've been giving meaning to many words I know nothing about.

It’s good to discover. :) that same is true for the word I / me / self / Stephen and many-many other words.

Thinking about going to work is not going to work, But going to work is experiencing going to work.

Can you really experience ‘going to work’?

Isn’t this just more mental abstractions on some bodily movements labelled as ‘walking’ or ‘driving’?

How do you experience ‘work’?

Is there such thing in reality as ‘work’?
Is there anything to the notion of work than a man-made mental construct? A concept only?

V: Is witnessing / noticing doing the not wanting to look there?

S: Yes it does appear to be, yes that seems to happen a lot.

If there is resistance (not wanting) then that’s not witnessing. It’s not possible.
The act of witnessing cannot resist.

If there is resistance than that’s just another thought mistaken for a person (or a personified witness).

I think I've been telling myself for a long time that there isn't a separate self that is suffering. I've listened to so many people in this non-duality movement tell me that there is no self, never was and never will be, that its a total illusion, I believed them because I wanted it to be true. How do you define self? maybe my definition is way off...

It’s not about defining it. You’ve been trying to talk yourself into believing that there is no self, while all along you believed and more importantly FELT to be self. This is just an added layer of self-delusion!

So I won’t give you another definition… another concept… you already have plenty.

It’s time to let go of concepts altogether, and just to stay with the simplicity of the present experience.

V: Where is that one? The one that is coming in and out of thoughts?

S: its just thoughts and more thoughts talking about there being one coming in and out of thoughts, its all mind movies...

Do you REALLY SEE this in your daily life, or you are just BELLING all of this based on all those years of idea-collections?
You are several times corrected your wording… and thus missing the pointers! You are pushing aside the pointers that are pointing to your beliefs based on “I already know it, I’ve already seen it, I just have to say it differently, I didn’t mean that way”. This is a trap.

I was referring to not having any control over thoughts, feelings, that they happen on their own, I can never tell you what my next thought or feeling is going to be. its just what is seen, I wasn't implying there was an I, though the word was used.

Do you SEE this MOMENT to moment in your daily life when not looking?
Is this your daily LIVED experience?

There are several beliefs in each of your posts, and when I give a pointer to them, you are correcting your wording. I cannot help if you do that. You have to open to the possibility that you might not see something. That you might mistake some intellectual understanding (based on the memory of some glimpses) for actual seeing.

Vivien

[justthis]

Can you really experience ‘going to work’?

Ok I really want to make sure that I don't miss the pointers, I have seen them all, I guess I wasn't sure what to do with them.
I'll tell you what I am seeing with this first one. I pondered on this for most of the day and its the same every time I look at it. I'm seeing/sensing that I don't exist as the mental stream, I don't exist at all. What is happening is the conditioned body is going to work and of course that's a story.

Isn’t this just more mental abstractions on some bodily movements labelled as ‘walking’ or ‘driving’?

Yes the whole mental movement is abstraction, all of it! labelling, all those beliefs I've been putting out there, everything!

How do you experience ‘work’?

I don't experience work, I don't even know what work is, and if I tried to explain it - it would just be more stories and abstractions.

Is there such thing in reality as ‘work’?

No its merely a concept, made up.

Is there anything to the notion of work than a man-made mental construct? A concept only?

This question seems unclear, but there is nothing more to it, its purely mental construct.

It’s time to let go of concepts altogether, and just to stay with the simplicity of the present experience.

I paid close attention to this today. there's been a shift today.

Do you SEE this MOMENT to moment in your daily life when not looking?

I don't notice it when I'm not looking, there's no noticing, witnessing...

Is this your daily LIVED experience?

Its all just stories about not having control over thoughts and feelings, I never had control ever! and never will.

There are several beliefs in each of your posts, and when I give a pointer to them, you are correcting your wording. I cannot help if you do that. You have to open to the possibility that you might not see something. That you might mistake some intellectual understanding (based on the memory of some glimpses) for actual seeing.

Yes I see where I've done that quite a lot.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

I'm seeing/sensing that I don't exist as the mental stream, I don't exist at all.

I don’t exist at all? So you don’t exist?
Isn’t just just being aware of the thought "I don't exist" the proof of my existence?

Saying that “I don’t exist” is just another belief… another mental conclusion.
“I don’t exist” is always just an intellectual conclusion, just as the belief in being a separate self.

I DO not exist is completely different to the I DOES not exist. So, the “I” that perceives itself to be small, finite and separate is a particular thought system, a particular form of narrative which is the I that doesn’t exist. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t exist. Something clearly exist, you are aware don’t you?

The question is not whether I exist, but AS WHAT do I exist?

Do I exist as a separate entity, a body-mind, that is the thinker, doer, feeler, experiencer?

That sense of ‘I exist’ is always here, only you have attached all kinds of things to it - body, feelings, thoughts, ideas, possessions, etc. All these self-identifications are misleading. Because of them, you take yourself to be what you are not. So what changes is your perception of what that sense of existence (I exist) is. It’s about shedding the mistaken identity to see that what I essentially am has no identity whatsoever.

Just notice, are you aware?
Are you aware of these letters on the screen?
Are you aware of sensations?
Are you aware of colors and shapes?

Are you aware of the thought that is currently present?

Are you aware of the thought ‘I’?

Do you actually think thoughts, or you are only aware of them?

Do you exist as a separate self?
Do you exist as a thinker?
A doer?
A decider?
A feeler?
An experiencer?

Do you have an identity? to be this or that?

I paid close attention to this today. there's been a shift today.

Could you please tell me a bit more about this shift?
What is it that is shifted?
What has changed?

Vivien

[justthis]

Hi Vivien, hope you had a great and safe 4th of July!

It’s about shedding the mistaken identity to see that what I essentially am has no identity whatsoever

.
This is what I was talking about when I said "I didn't exist" i just misworded it. This was the glimpse I seen.

I don’t exist at all? So you don’t exist?
Isn’t just just being aware of the thought "I don't exist" the proof of my existence?

.
Yes we both exist in this way, like I said I had misworded what I was trying to say. Its obvious we exist or this sharing would not be happening.

I DO not exist is completely different to the I DOES not exist. So, the “I” that perceives itself to be small, finite and separate is a particular thought system, a particular form of narrative which is the I that doesn’t exist. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t exist. Something clearly exist, you are aware don’t you?

Yes of course, I do see the difference.

The question is not whether I exist, but AS WHAT do I exist?

Life as it is WITH NO IDENTITY, whatever life is, that's the closest I can get with words.

Do I exist as a separate entity, a body-mind, that is the thinker, doer, feeler, experiencer?

No those are all beliefs and mental abstractions and identities. Like you said I have attached all those things to the sense of what is always here "I exist REALLY"

Just notice, are you aware?

YES, but no identity is aware.

Are you aware of these letters on the screen?

YES absolutely.

Are you aware of sensations?

YES without a doubt.

Are you aware of colors and shapes?

YES in 1000's of variations.

Are you aware of the thought that is currently present?

YES sometimes they are acted upon and other times they are not.

Are you aware of the thought ‘I’?

Yes its used quite often.

Do you actually think thoughts, or you are only aware of them?

No, I am only aware of them.

Do you exist as a separate self?

No, but I have attached one to me.

Do you exist as a thinker?

No, but I've attached one to me.

A doer?

No, but I have added one to me, that's never done anything.

A decider?

No, but added one to me.

A feeler?

No, but feelings are felt.

An experiencer?

No, I have attached a mistaken identity.

Do you have an identity? to be this or that?

I have no identity whatsoever, this or that would be like the experiencer, feeler, decider, doer, thinker, separate self.

Could you please tell me a bit more about this shift?

Its like I stepped out of an identity into NO identity.

What is it that is shifted?

perception, like it became more focused towards "I exist without any identity" felt like I had pulled away a bit from artificial identity's.

What has changed?

more relaxed, kind of a natural confidence, I totally changed my diet, I'm seeing some really toxic people more clearly in my life. Not that their bad people, their just sick like I have been.

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

hope you had a great and safe 4th of July!

I’m in Australia, so 4th of July doesn’t apply here :)

V: Do you exist as a separate self?

S: No, but I have attached one to me.

Are you sure that this is coming from non-conceptual looking, and not just a thought conclusion?

If you say “I have attached one [separate self] to me” – this is still the same belief….

V: Do you exist as a thinker?

S: No, but I've attached one to me.

Same thing again.. this not coming from looking.

Is there a thinker in reality that is attached to me?

When we say that “I exist” – how do you imagine yourself to exists? As what?

If a thinker is attached to ‘that I imagine myself exists as a thing” only then there is a possibility to anything being attached… do you see that it’s still a belief in an entity? A thing that a thinker could be attached to?

It’s actually a double belief… not just a belief in a self, but a belief in a separate thinker.

You have to go deeper… since your replies are still conceptual.

No, but I have added one [doer, decider, identity ] to me, that's never done anything.

Same logical conclusion again.

Do you see that you are not looking?
Do you see that your replies are coming from thinking and reasoning?

Is it totally clear without doubt that looking is before thinking? Before conceptualization?

Is it totally clear that thinking is not the way?

Do you see clearly that thinking and looking are 2 very different things?

I have no identity whatsoever, this or that would be like the experiencer, feeler, decider, doer, thinker, separate self.

You have no identity? And WHO is saying that?

Do you see that you still belief that you are the same self, but now you conclude that you have no identity?

When you say ‘I’, what does that word point to in reality?

What is ‘I’?
Where is ‘I’?

perception, like it became more focused towards "I exist without any identity" felt like I had pulled away a bit from artificial identity's.

What are you talking about? Please say more. What ‘artificial identities?

And what is this ‘I” that pulled away from those identities?

Do you see that this is still the same belief?

In order to pull away you have to be separate from what is being pulled away from! This is the same belief about a self…

Do you see that it’s not about to get rid of any identity?
Do you see that this is not about to shed or pull away from identity?

But to SEE that there is NO-ONE THERE to HAVE an identity?

more relaxed, kind of a natural confidence, I totally changed my diet, I'm seeing some really toxic people more clearly in my life. Not that their bad people, their just sick like I have been.

OK… this is a change in the person, in the illusionary self… these are not the signs of awakening. It’s just an IMPROVED ME.

Those ‘toxic people’ … they are toxic to WHO? To ME? To Stephen?

Do you see that this is still the belief in a ME who can be affected with toxic people, so he pulled away from them?


Vivien

[justthis]

Hi Vivien, sorry I didn't know that The 4th of July was banned in Australia.

Are you sure that this is coming from non-conceptual looking, and not just a thought conclusion?

Yes it is a thought conclusion, I was just admitting in my first answer that this had been what I was doing - was adding a narrative. I thought it and put it down in my response. In a non-conceptual looking there is no thought conclusion, this is clear.

Is there a thinker in reality that is attached to me?

NO

When we say that “I exist” – how do you imagine yourself to exists? As what?

As life itself, indescribable, unseen but sensed.

If a thinker is attached to ‘that I imagine myself exists as a thing” only then there is a possibility to anything being attached… do you see that it’s still a belief in an entity? A thing that a thinker could be attached to?

Yes I do, but I don't see that I imagine myself to be a thing..

Do you see that you are not looking?

Yes I have seen that I'm not looking

Do you see that your replies are coming from thinking and reasoning?

YES

Is it totally clear without doubt that looking is before thinking? Before conceptualization?

YES

Is it totally clear that thinking is not the way?

HA HA DEFINETLELY YES...

Do you see clearly that thinking and looking are 2 very different things?

YES

You have no identity? And WHO is saying that?

In reality NO, no one is saying that.

Do you see that you still belief that you are the same self, but now you conclude that you have no identity?

YES it appears to be mixed up.

When you say ‘I’, what does that word point to in reality?

In reality its points to life as it is NOW. There is writing this down in response to your question, it just happens, its life as it is now.

What is ‘I’?

A label.

Where is ‘I’?

in imagination...

What are you talking about? Please say more. What ‘artificial identities?

thoughts about self's, experiencers, doers, thinkers, thinking about those things.

And what is this ‘I” that pulled away from those identities?

I had it backwards, the thinking about the identity's disappeared, and reality is all there is.

Do you see that this is still the same belief?

YES like I said I had it backwards when I wrote it down, it was just thinking coming and going, no identity.

Do you see that it’s not about to get rid of any identity?

YES

Do you see that this is not about to shed or pull away from identity?

YES

But to SEE that there is NO-ONE THERE to HAVE an identity?

Its like the name Stephen, though I still respond to that name when people call it out, there's a deeper knowing that isn't me in reality. there's nothing to attach an identity to...where would you attach it? its like my car, I can attach wheels and tires to it because there's a car to attach them to, not so here...so there never was in reality any self other than what was believed to be in imagination.

Those ‘toxic people’ … they are toxic to WHO? To ME? To Stephen?

There's no one there either, so they cannot be toxic to me unless I believe they are.

Do you see that this is still the belief in a ME who can be affected with toxic people, so he pulled away from them?

Yes and it also talks about separation as if there was a place to be pulled to...none that I know of.

Stephen

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

Hi Vivien, sorry I didn't know that The 4th of July was banned in Australia.

It’s not banned, but the Independence Day is totally an American celebration only (and only celebrated in the US, nowhere else), of 13 American colonies being no more subject to the monarch of Britain (4 July, 1776). At that time, Australia wasn’t even colonized. The first British fleet arrived to Australian continent in 1788, and was a British colony for a long time. Australia got an independent country only in 1 Jan 1901, but that is not celebrated. What is celebrated is the arrival of the first British fleet. (I’m not that clever, I just did a google search :) and I was born in a different county, so I don’t know too much about the Australian history).

Yes it is a thought conclusion, I was just admitting in my first answer that this had been what I was doing - was adding a narrative. I thought it and put it down in my response. In a non-conceptual looking there is no thought conclusion, this is clear.

This is not what I was asking. I don’t ask your intellectual understanding… I think you misinterpreted my comments. What I was asking if you actually SEE it, or you just conclude it logically? – I wanted you to look and see for yourself that you were not looking… that are just writing down your logical conclusion.

Stephen… I’m not sure if you are aware that you mixing up intellectual understanding for real seeing.

Is it clear to you that I never ask you to write down your intellectual understanding?

Is it clear to you that whenever I ask a question I ALWAYS ask you to do a thorough experiential investigation and reply from that?

Are you aware how much you mistake your intellectual understanding for actual seeing?

Do you see that most of your replies are just learned knowledge?

Listen, I never ever ask you to write about your intellectual understanding. Actually I ask you to never do that. All right? Can you do that? Only writing from your experience and what you’ve learned or understood? Can we agree on this?

You have to approach this differently… since this is not looking. This is a complete dead end.

Vivien

[justthis]

Hello Vivien,

I'm going to need a few days to look this over.

I think we should do a skype or zoom soon.

Something feels very off.

Stephen

[justthis]

Is it clear to you that I never ask you to write down your intellectual understanding?

Yes you never have asked me to write down my intellectual understanding.

Is it clear to you that whenever I ask a question I ALWAYS ask you to do a thorough experiential investigation and reply from that?

Yes from now on.

Are you aware how much you mistake your intellectual understanding for actual seeing?

Yes it makes me feel important like I know something. Until I met you I thought that the gathering of more and more knowledge and learning how to speak to people about it would be fruitful, no such luck. I've put myself in a precarious situation more than I care to admit.

Do you see that most of your replies are just learned knowledge?

Yes, but there were some genuine responses. Yes most..

Listen, I never ever ask you to write about your intellectual understanding. Actually I ask you to never do that. All right? Can you do that? Only writing from your experience and what you’ve learned or understood? Can we agree on this?

Yes Agreed, I'll do my best.

Note: After I read your last response I felt extremely threatened, after I calmed down I realized it was just the intellectual identity that felt threatened, a lot of years gathering more and more knowledge, a lot of work went into that, It had become my identity. I thought it was what I was supposed to do in life..

[Vivien]

Hi Stephen,

Yes it makes me feel important like I know something. Until I met you I thought that the gathering of more and more knowledge and learning how to speak to people about it would be fruitful, no such luck. I've put myself in a precarious situation more than I care to admit.

You’ve just admitted it :) and that’s great!

Just notice that it’s ME who wants to be important? - I am trying to be better....

It’s all about separation. We are not equal and the same, rather I can be better than others. Do you see how this story separates from others?

Note: After I read your last response I felt extremely threatened, after I calmed down I realized it was just the intellectual identity that felt threatened, a lot of years gathering more and more knowledge, a lot of work went into that, It had become my identity. I thought it was what I was supposed to do in life..

Thank you for your honesty. Yes, it’s very easy to build a new identity about seeking or spirituality… I’m the one who is seeking, who is special, who knows more than most people… yet… this is just another costume for the ME.

Now, I would like you to go back to the beginning of our thread, and read the whole thing from the beginning. But only read my posts, and ignore yours. And not just read them, but work with every single pointer for the beginning.

This will take a while, so just take your time. Don’t rush, but be thorough. When you finished please write me what you’ve discovered.

Vivien

[justthis]

Hi Vivien,

but work with every single pointer for the beginning.

for the beginning or from the beginning?