Seeing that Frees

[Mamaki]

Hi again vince

Really appreciate your response and encouragement to focus on whats happening on my retreat rather than looking outside and using my phone. It's a relief!
Theres a story that mamaki will reply to your questions on 10th June when retreat finishes. Really interesting questions 🙏

Love and appreciation
mamaki

[Mamaki]

Hi again vince

The most beautiful verdant nature for the retreat and unstructured organic time to be with all THIS!

The questions you posed were used to guide the attention on the retreat. In some ways I didn't really know how to answer them yet they were very helpful
.

Can you think of other story lines that are 'conditioned?

It was hard to find examples in experience even though storylines from within were occurring frequently but I guess theoretically family conditioning, female conditioning, im like this not like that etc. Sorry wasn't sure what you were pointing to.

In fact every time that you find thoughts directed outward, that you ask what story is running?

There was always a story of either wanting that thing which will make me feel better (when planning or fantasising about something not present) or not wanting something (eg.that person doesn't like me) and finding a reason to hold them at arms length in imagination.

What is current experiencing?

This was good to come back to again and again. Whatever is happening in experience. there was a regular default to 'simply this aliveness' showing up as
sensations, feelings, thoughts, stories.

Can you see the story that promoted the (outward looking) story?

Yes it was stories about feeling uncomfortable and not wanting that. Or wanting to find a reason why something painful happened in the past.
The stories were noticed more and more easily over time and uncomfortable feelings were invited in lovingly and quickly dissolved of their own accord.

Does feel like a shift in perception around the present. Whatever is here invite in. THIS is where its at. Feelings and sensations feel more intense but being just back from retreat it may fade so time will tell is the story im going with!

More examples for the questions above were written down but this is the gist.

Oh by the way mamaki is not my actual name. Do you think that matters with regards self identity?

Looking forward to your response!

Love and appreciation mamaki

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Mamaki,

The most beautiful verdant nature for the retreat and unstructured organic time to be with all THIS!

Sometimes it is more easily seen, but it is always there.
When it is recognized that it is not being seen, this is a trigger to investigate what story is running.

In some ways I didn't really know how to answer them

Often an answer is the least valuable. It is the consideration where the discovery is.

Sorry wasn't sure what you were pointing to.

You got it. It is the all-pervasive nature of conditioning that comes with any input.

There was always a story of...

..of something. Is there ever a time when there is no story happening?
Can you communicate without a story?
Can you describe without a story?
Can you explain without a story?
Can you think without a story?
Can you appreciate THIS without a story?

Whatever is happening in experience. there was a regular default to 'simply this aliveness' showing up as sensations, feelings, thoughts, stories.

So is what we are looking at here a different way of relating to stories?
Is it possible to allow a story to flow through without identifying with its subject matter?

The stories were noticed more and more easily over time and uncomfortable feelings were invited in lovingly and quickly dissolved of their own accord.

This is the really big thing. Do you have a story that this happening needs to be 100% before you can say that you are awake?

Feelings and sensations feel more intense but being just back from retreat it may fade so time will tell is the story im going with!

Of course. Intensity (here) increases as i type this and receeds as daily routine predominates. ..but the intensity happens more often and the receeding is less. Guiding keeps it more active for me.

Oh by the way mamaki is not my actual name. Do you think that matters with regards self identity?

Do you identify with a label?
i refute the legitimacy of proper nouns.

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Hi again vince

Great to be back in touch.

I'm having a bit of a bumpy landing back from retreat. It's also been difficult to explain to buddhist friends what I've been doing on retreat. I'm writing using 'I' in the usual way as it feels easier.

Sometimes it is more easily seen, but it is always there.
When it is recognized that it is not being seen, this is a trigger to investigate what story is running.

OK, that's good to know as I seem to have lost that seeing at present and am experiencing doubt in this process and resistance. I fear losing my friends and loved ones by having a completely different perspective and not being able to relate...feeling more separate...

Is there ever a time when there is no story happening?

Occasionally no words just sense of presence but quickly thoughts follow and describe what happened making it into a story.
Noticed thoughts have different volumes. Sometimes very quiet even silent but then there is an image story instead, like a silent movie, sometimes very beautiful and poetic! Became aware there is always a background image seen most with eyes shut but also sometimes when open. Like a screensaver! An image story.

Can you communicate without a story?

I'm wondering about non verbal communication...but want to say probably not

Can you describe without a story?

No. Description requires language which, based on conditioning pins experience down in a particular way which is inevitably distorted, however simple. Always an approximation.

Can you explain without a story?

Explanation uses story even more by likening things to something else, using examples

Can you think without a story?

No!

Can you appreciate THIS without a story?

No! There is a story of recognition

So is what we are looking at here a different way of relating to stories?

Yes! I think that was what I was doing - reframing everything with a new story which is inevitable! But sometimes I felt I was pushing the river, trying to DO the new perspective!

Is it possible to allow a story to flow through without identifying with its subject matter?

Yes to some extent. I had a strange night one night on retreat. Some bizarre thoughts arose about how I might self harm (have no history of this, so extremely unlikely) or go psychotic with this dialogue process. I lay in bed completely relaxed and calm watching these thoughts! As if they were attempting to arrest the process. Was surprised that fear didn't arise on its own apart from these stories.

This is the really big thing.
Do you have a story that this happening needs to be 100% before you can say that you are awake?

Mmm, yes I guess so! Perfectionism is a speciality of mine! I want clear confirmation that I'm on the right track with positive outcomes...I  was attracted to this process by the claim that there seemed to be a definite before and after with seeing the illusion of self. Fed up with endless process and no clear sense of progress...! That's one story. Another is I get that the glimpse of THIS is subtle and is now probably reconditioning my experience ongoingly as you have intimated many times, being integrated gradually.

Oh by the way mamaki is not my actual name. Do you think that matters with regards self identity?

Do you identify with a label?

I have an ordained buddhist name which I love and identify with! There was a process at ordination of letting go the name my parents gave me plus my nicknames and with my new buddhist name came personal recognition of something beautiful, creative and inspiring...I never looked back. It feels like my actual name and yet its long and unwieldy and gives me an identity of being 'different' in everyday life. I usually shorten it to 'Surya' which feels ok. So yes a lot in that name! A lot of identification. Self esteem tied up with it as well. Not sure if I should use it here or stick with mamaki!

Love and appreciation
mamaki

[vinceschubert]

Good day Mamaki,

I'm having a bit of a bumpy landing back from retreat.

That's no unexpected. Adjustment to circumstances is usually a little jarring.

It's also been difficult to explain to Buddhist friends what I've been doing on retreat.

A story here is that there is an advantage to keeping this stuff to yourself. Not secret, but private. Any attempt to explain/describe it will change it.

I'm writing using 'I' in the usual way as it feels easier.

Yes, certainly easier. Every time i go to the trouble of changing a capital I to a lower case i, i am reminded that the self and the proper nouns that label it are a concept pointing to an illusion.

I seem to have lost that seeing at present

Does this translate into not remembering about the illusory aspect of experiencing? Is the recognition that it's happening not arising?
If you realize that you have been lost in story, then you look, does the recognition happen then?
When that recognition does happen, are you celebrating it with (at least) a smile?

and am experiencing doubt in this process and resistance.

Is there recognition that these are just thoughts? Probably conditioned thoughts?

I fear losing my friends and loved ones by having a completely different perspective and not being able to relate..

Nothing will change, but everything will be different.

feeling more separate...

Strangely (perhaps) to imagine that i am the only one in my circle of friends, family, acquaintances and strangers, doesn't make me feel separate. i am constantly reminded that they are my projection which leads to interesting interactions. Never boring..

Noticed thoughts have different volumes. Sometimes very quiet even silent but then there is an image story instead, like a silent movie, sometimes very beautiful and poetic! Became aware there is always a background image seen most with eyes shut but also sometimes when open. Like a screensaver! An image story.

Ah yes! i have noticed thoughts that appear like a book cover with just the title visible. ..and there is a 'knowing' of a whole story behind/beneath this. i can immediately access any chapter, but knowing that i know it's details makes it unnecessary. ..and yes visual or auditory or tactile thoughts happen too.

Can you communicate without a story?

I'm wondering about non verbal communication..

Ah, good wondering. Is there a story present if i shrug my shoulders? ..or droop my head?
Even at a unbconscious level, body language is expressing something.

But sometimes I felt I was pushing the river, trying to DO the new perspective!

This happens. What was the response when it was seen as happening?

I had a strange night one night on retreat. ... I lay in bed completely relaxed and calm watching these thoughts!

Excellent experience. When remembering happens here, it is like it was someone else. Not dissociated, but like describing a movie. i know it was me, but it was actually a character acting as (a)me.

There was a process at ordination of letting go the name my parents gave me plus my nicknames and with my new buddhist name came personal recognition of something beautiful, creative and inspiring...I never looked back.

So, perhaps it's time to take another (new) name now. If you were to, do you have one that fits?

Not sure if I should use it here or stick with mamaki!

Look deeper into the story behind this.

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Good day vince,

Thanks for the wonderful clarity and companionship.

I seem to have lost that seeing at present

Does this translate into not remembering about the illusory aspect of experiencing?

No. im still remembering this. Or at least im aware of self stories popping up but im not sure i really believe they are illusory...wondering about a kind of denial going on...a reversion back to conceptual seeing rather than experiential. probably over-thinking this!

Is the recognition that it's happening not arising?

no. recognition is still arising but maybe im expecting the illusion to feel unreal or something but it feels quite unremarkable and hard to believe that recognition of it will change anything! Lately ive been thinking,'so what?' and do i really care that its illusory!

If you realize that you have been lost in story, then you look, does the recognition happen then?

yes

When that recognition does happen, are you celebrating it with (at least) a smile?

no, and this is the curious bit as i illuded to above. i like the idea of getting into a rythmn of smiling/chuckling but its not happening and i dont feel i want this recognition anymore! However i have had thoughts arising 'saying its ok all shall be well, keep going...'

and am experiencing doubt in this process and resistance.

Is there recognition that these are just thoughts? Probably conditioned thoughts?

Yes

Strangely (perhaps) to imagine that i am the only one in my circle of friends, family, acquaintances and strangers, doesn't make me feel separate. i am constantly reminded that they are my projection which leads to interesting interactions. Never boring..

Wow, does that mean that you are interested in others and feel connected but from the point of view of what they show you about your projections...? i want to feel connected, caring, loving, interested AND see my projections. maybe im imagining that the interest in projections seems a bit aloof and calculating...

Is there a story present if i shrug my shoulders? ..or droop my head?

Yes, I can hear the unspoken words in those gestures

But sometimes I felt I was pushing the river, trying to DO the new perspective!

This happens. What was the response when it was seen as happening?

i wondered why i thought i needed to control the process. so strongly wanting to get it right! thought 'this is me pushing the river, i can 'try' not to do this...but what will happen will happen and its not in my control...'

When remembering happens here, it is like it was someone else. Not dissociated, but like describing a movie. i know it was me, but it was actually a character acting as (a)me.

Yes, that sounds similar. It felt pretend, like a charicature of a 'me'! Very bizarre.

So, perhaps it's time to take another (new) name now. If you were to, do you have one that fits?

think nothing would really fit as cant be pinned down or fully defined. in a way Surya is a good hybrid of the buddhist name and a more everyday secular name. this question requires a bit more pondering.
mamaki is the name of the archetypal female buddha i visualise. used to visualise her outside of me (over period of 13 years) and in last year took on a different visualising of me as her! hence the choice of using the name for this process. her wisdom is the wisdom of equality. all things have the same nature which is no nature and therefore everything is 'me' and 'mine' is the teaching within the imagery...i like using lower case for the name.

Not sure if I should use it here (the name Surya) or stick with mamaki!

Look deeper into the story behind this.

The story is about finding an appropriate name that fits this awakening character!
On solitary retreat I spent some time walking literally in circles saying several times each of the names i have ever had and noticing how each one felt. it became apparent that the names were about the people who called me them. my connection with them. they all had similar weight as aspects of me although the name before ordination felt least like me!
my full buddhist name gives a feeling of belonging as it tends to be used in the order context and aligns me with a certain aspiration and inspiration. in some moods this feels good in other moods it feels silly and pretentious!
Yes, i want to look deeper into the story of the name thing...

with love and appreciation
mamaki

[vinceschubert]

Good morning Surya.
How does it feel to see that name?

but im not sure i really believe they are illusory

..even when you check?

a reversion back to conceptual seeing rather than experiential.

Familiarity does seem safer.
..and of course, there are the horror stories about being totally alone, etc.

probably over-thinking this!

Well, who had control of their thoughts?
i like the image of the lotus flower that grew in horrible smelling mud just floating by in the river. Thoughts flowing, beauty exposed. Soon to be gone.

but maybe im expecting the illusion to feel unreal or something

However they present, they are THIS.

it feels quite unremarkable and hard to believe that recognition of it will change anything!

Yes. i get that. It's a subtractive process. Not an additive one.
Consider this; what does it feel like to have an empty bladder?
Is it a feeling of a lack of one after a full bladder is emptied that feels so good?

and do i really care that its illusory!

You're probably ahead of yourself. Yes, it feels very ordinary after a while.

and i dont feel i want this recognition anymore!

It is an option. You can retreat back into sleepwalking, but already it will take some work and it will never feel like it is aligned with THIS.

i want to feel connected, caring, loving, interested AND see my projections.

This is more accurate than what i expressed before.

maybe im imagining that the interest in projections seems a bit aloof and calculating...

Oh no. It's definitely not aloof. The remembering about projections usually only happens if there is unpleasant interactions. The connection is greater as the empathy is more obvious.
There is also a greater emphasis on 'forgiving oneself'.
Compassion takes on a different experience. The term itself implies a separate 'other', but has become synomonous with this forgiveness.

i wondered why i thought i needed to control the process.

Did the thought occur to you that you can't anyway?

but what will happen will happen

i guess that there's a kind of trust required to be completely relaxed and even excited about what the mystery of life-ing will present next.

think nothing would really fit as cant be pinned down or fully defined.

Oh, so the name doesn't define you? Does it describe you?
Are we emotional about a chair being called a chair when it really should be called a 'sitting thing'?
It's funny how humans want their name to mean something, whereas chair is perfectly adequate and practical to use for everything from a lounge chair to a kitchen chair, and we never question it.

it became apparent that the names were about the people who called me them.

Good noticing. i hadn't thought of this before, but there is the practicality of a name.

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Hello dear vince

Good morning Surya. How does it feel to see that name?

It feels more like 'me'! It feels as if you've come in the room in person and spoken to 'me'!
mamaki feels like 'me' in a more provisional way. Although for the purposes of this dialogue it's definitely pointed to this character 'me'.

but im not sure i really believe they are illusory (the self stories)

even when you check?

Mmmm? i can feel the denial with a story that this notion of no separate self is an imposter! It's counter intuitive almost. How can it possibly be true when it seems so real? When I check THIS it feels very transient and not so easy to feel that inseperability from it which was 'my' 'gateless gate' moment. So doubt and denial happening. Biggest sticking point is believing there is no control.

probably over-thinking this!

Well, who had control of their thoughts?

Yes, who I wonder?! I guess thoughts just happening by themselves intensively.

t feels quite unremarkable and hard to believe that recognition of it will change anything!

Yes. i get that. It's a subtractive process. Not an additive one.

Very interesting.

Consider this; what does it feel like to have an empty bladder?

Unremarkable, normal really

Is it a feeling of a lack of one after a full bladder is emptied that feels so good?

Personally (teehee, that's such an owning word!) it's the actual emptying that brings relief...great example, love it!




want to feel connected, caring, loving, interested AND see my projections.

This is more accurate than what i expressed before.

Phew, needed to hear that and connect with the positives of seeing through the self illusion. Thankyou 🙏

The connection is greater as the empathy is more obvious.There is also a greater emphasis on 'forgiving oneself'.

Beautiful

wondered why i thought i needed to control the process.

Did the thought occur to you that you can't anyway?

Yes, kind of... weakly!

think nothing would really fit as cant be pinned down or fully defined.

Oh, so the name doesn't define you? Does it describe you?

Interesting most people have names that make no attempt to describe them and say most about the name giver. the name my parents gave me (Virginia)felt very much my Mums choice. Very different to being given a  name by someone who is trying to describe my spiritual path. Its meant to be meaningful and there is ownership and  possessiveness there for me. Although the name points to something beyond the self. It means jewel of the sunlight. Love it! Don't want to let it go. So yes emotional about it. Guess main point is to see what it points to is a fictional character that 'I' don't own...

with love and gratitude
surya 🌞

[vinceschubert]

good morning. (how does no name feel?)

Mmmm? i can feel the denial with a story that this notion of no separate self is an imposter!

So, instead of the no separate self, if we have a story about a self. A really detailed story, and like when watching a movie, we suspend disbelief to make our response to it more...
Is that different?

How can it possibly be true when it seems so real?

Have you seen the rubber hand illusion? Here it is; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... UJzx-jdm-n

So doubt and denial happening.

Welcome it. Investigate until it fades away.

Biggest sticking point is believing there is no control.

Oh, that's easy. Grab a pencil and draw a picture of anything in front of you. If you have control or choice then you will draw a perfect representation. ..or intend to walk on the left side of the path for 2 steps then the right side for 2 the next time you are on a path. ..or anything, then watch how life takes over.

I guess thoughts just happening by themselves intensively.

We simplify by saying that thoughts happen by themselves. In actual fact how thoughts happen is so complicated that we don't know the half of it. It is a mystery.

Guess main point is to see what it points to is a fictional character that 'I' don't own...

If we bound the story of that self into a book, what would the title be?

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Hi again vince

Thanks for sticking with this process with such loyalty and wisdom. Much appreciated.

good morning. (how does no name feel?)

Impersonal! Disappointing not to be someone! Feels lonely. i could add a story about why...but no just staying with first responses.

So, instead of the no separate self, if we have a story about a self. A really detailed story, and like when watching a movie, we suspend disbelief to make our response to it more...
Is that different?

So a detailed story about me like a movie...i have to suspend disbelief in order to believe in the drama and make my response to it more...'real' or believable! Yes it's all story added onto what's happened and is happening. Can see that. The story changes with mood and other conditions. Never the same story.

How can it possibly be true when it seems so real?

Have you seen the rubber hand illusion?

Amazing! Need to read it again to take it in properly.

So doubt and denial happening.

Welcome it. Investigate until it fades away.

Feels good to have a clear instruction for this.

Biggest sticking point is believing there is no control.

Oh, that's easy. Grab a pencil and draw a picture of anything in front of you. If you have control or choice then you will draw a perfect representation. ..or intend to walk on the left side of the path for 2 steps then the right side for 2 the next time you are on a path. ..or anything, then watch how life takes over.

It seems there are some things i have more control over than others...like things where there is already skill at something (such as taking a bloodtest for my job) which seems reliable most of the time. But its not 100% reliable. The reliability is still very convincing though...but it is nevertheless unpredictable and therefore not in my control 100%. Feels like it might be reliable some of the time so why is that?

Guess main point is to see what it points to is a fictional character that 'I' don't own...

If we bound the story of that self into a book, what would the title be?

The story of my life is about a little girl who managed to do surprising things in the end...

'The girl who healed herself through natural means'

'The abandoned girl who found meaning and methods and healed herself'

'The nobody who became somebody then threw it all away!'

Warm appreciation and respect

surya

P.S. I'm not receiving the email any longer when you post. i just check the website now and then. Do you know any thing about this?
P.P.S am i anywhere near the gateless gate. Slightly lost the plot!

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Suyra,

Thanks for sticking with this process with such loyalty and wisdom. Much appreciated.

You're welcome, but, but... i don't experience loyalty or wisdom. i do feel what i call a connection. A heart opening sensation. ..and it's because of the story that i feel when i read squiggles on the screen. Wonder Full.

how does no name feel?

Impersonal! Disappointing not to be someone! Feels lonely.

Yes.

i could add a story about why...but no

Excellent. Yes. Tell me if this is accurate..
There is no need to have the story play out. It can be seen that there is a story, but to know what it is is unnecessary. It can be allowed to be whatever it is. ..because it is (already) that, that it is.
Simply seeing that there is a story somewhere in the background that provoked a response, is enough to short circuit the execution of the intended response.
A space freed up. A huge saving of mental (and emotional) energy in not having to play out that storyline.
Do you grok this? Is it accurate in your experience?

It seems there are some things i have more control over than others...

Can you see that the idea of control is a story that always follows an event?
Watch your feeling of control when it happens and see if there is a story somewhere that validates the idea and creates the illusion that it's 'real'.

The story of my life is about a little girl who managed to do surprising things in the end...

'The girl who healed herself through natural means'

'The abandoned girl who found meaning and methods and healed herself'

'The nobody who became somebody then threw it all away!'

Warm appreciation and respect

Did you notice that every one of the book titles is a description of an achievement?
They each imply Doing. Control. Decision. Choice. There is a story of movement from unhealthy to healthy. A story of vindication. A story of apology for not meeting expectations. (you do realize that these are all my story?)

'The nobody who became somebody then threw it all away!'

i would say "The no one who became every one and had it all". (just doesn't realize it yet)

P.S. I'm not receiving the email any longer when you post.

Under this window you should have "Options" - make sure that you have a tick in the box that says "Notify me.."

P.P.S am i anywhere near the gateless gate. Slightly lost the plot!

There is only one thing that you are lacking. What do you think that it might be?

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Hello again vince

Thanks for sticking with this process with such loyalty and wisdom. Much appreciated.

You're welcome, but, but... i don't experience loyalty or wisdom. i do feel what i call a connection. A heart opening sensation. ..and it's because of the story that i feel when i read squiggles on the screen. Wonder Full.

Lovely🙏

Tell me if this is accurate..
There is no need to have the story play out.

The story of 'why' would be an attempt to control how you understood what i just said.
Wanting to explain the reason for 'my' response as it is judged here as wrong- shouldn't be like that! Almost an apology.
But it is what it is. As you say its already as it is.

It can be seen that there is a story, but to know what it is is unnecessary.

Yes not necessary to go there because...because we agree that the contents of stories are not necessary for this...because experience has seen it creates suffering adding the story. The story distorts what has happened and takes experience in the thought realm away from what is actually here in direct experience.

It can be allowed to be whatever it is. ..because it is (already) that, that it is.

Yes starting to see (already)that.

Simply seeing that there is a story somewhere in the background that provoked a response, is enough to short circuit the execution of the intended response.

Yes can see that happening but how does that happen. Kharma and 4 other causes Co arising would be a Dharmic explanation...

A space freed up. A huge saving of mental (and emotional) energy in not having to play out that storyline.

Absolutely, didn't need to go there. So how did that 'choice' arise?

Do you grok this? Is it accurate in your experience?

Kind of...except can't seem to grok how the evolution of responsiveness happens...

Can you see that the idea of control is a story that always follows an event?

Not sure.
There is an event happening later today.
Planning has happened and thoughts explain that it's not possible to know what will actually happen.
There is recollection of past events where after the event thought said 'shouldn't have done that's and 'im glad i 'decided' to do that'. Both ideas of control after the event.

Watch your feeling of control when it happens and see if there is a story somewhere that validates the idea and creates the illusion that it's 'real'.

But what about the way it feels like im making things up as i go along?

Did you notice that every one of the book titles is a description of an achievement?

YES!

They each imply Doing. Control. Decision. Choice. There is a story of movement from unhealthy to healthy. A story of vindication. A story of apology for not meeting expectations.

Yes and there's cringing happening that that has been noticed! But also important feedback about the bias of the story. Certain expectations set up that sometime got fulfilled but sometimes didn't and there's the surprise!

(you do realize that these are all my story?)

Yes so may be more or less accurate

'The nobody who became somebody then threw it all away!'

i would say "The no one who became every one and had it all".

LOVE THIS VERSION!

(just doesn't realize it yet)
AHH, OK. LOOKING FORWARD TO REALISING!

P.S. I'm not receiving the email any longer when you post.

Under this window you should have "Options" - make sure that you have a tick in the box that says "Notify me.."

Thanks but still can't find it...

P.P.S am i anywhere near the gateless gate. Slightly lost the plot!

There is only one thing that you are lacking. What do you think that it might be?

Not realising i am? Doubt?

Really enjoyed the comments and questions,

with love and heart opening grattitude

surya

[vinceschubert]

Good evening surya,

Wanting to explain the reason for 'my' response as it is judged here as wrong- shouldn't be like that!

i don't understand this. Would you elaborate?

Yes can see that happening but how does that happen.

i have a story that part of liberation is being freed from the obsessive mind game of explaining everything.
Is it possible to live friendly with unanswered questions?

So how did that 'choice' arise?

As above..

can't seem to grok how the evolution of responsiveness happens...

As above above..
We are settling down like a feather ready to come to rest on the ground. Relaxing into simplicity.
The freedom from having to describe, to explain everything, well...

But what about the way it feels like im making things up as i go along?

That sounds like you feel as if you can choose the way it feels? Certainly a judgment about it.

Thanks but still can't find it...

Ok, before you click on "Post reply" look just below that for a button with a spanner on it. If you click and hold this you will see "subscribe topic". Click that.

with love

vince

[Mamaki]

Hi again vince

Wanting to explain the reason for 'my' response as it is judged here as wrong- shouldn't be like that!

i don't understand this. Would you elaborate?

Yes this is very convoluted! I wanted to explain with a story the 'good' reason why this character was disappointed not to be someone without a name. As if  being disappointed revealed my 'wrong' view. And then saying 'lonely' further revealed this and i wanted so much to explain about the part childhood conditioning had played on that particular response. These 2 responses seemed to follow a feeling of fear of rejection.

i have a story that part of liberation is being freed from the obsessive mind game of explaining everything.

Oh i so want this 😍 but thought keeps doggedly wanting a comprehensive explanation for all this...

Is it possible to live friendly with unanswered questions?

There seems to be a need for thought (self) to be fully convinced that it's worth surrendering. That it's worth letting go the mind games...Like what are the benefits of giving up all that I know?! Or is it not black and white like that?!

As above above..
We are settling down like a feather ready to come to rest on the ground. Relaxing into simplicity.
The freedom from having to describe, to explain everything, well...

Love the way this sounds but how?

But what about the way it feels like im making things up as i go along?

That sounds like you feel as if you can choose the way it feels? Certainly a judgment about it.

Wow confusion happening! Doesn't feels like a judgement. The above statement was written about the way life is experienced as unfolding and moment by moment there is a response here to that and thoughts of ownership of a kind of steering that responsiveness.

Blimey, feel bogged down with all this thinking! Awake in the night last night and more attuned to THIS including welcoming discomfort. Today at work feelings of frustration and stress and strange sensations of tension in stomach and chest met internally with gentle welcome. Colleague commented on how well that situation had been handled. So welcoming THIS is happening sometimes. Experiencing this helps balance the thoughts hungry for explanation.

Love and Blessings of the Solstice

surya 🌼

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Surya,

As if being disappointed revealed my 'wrong' view.

Do you imagine that being judgmental about yourself is virtuous?

thought keeps doggedly wanting a comprehensive explanation for all this...

It's not like something is being withheld. i could be glib and say that it is beyond human comprehension, but really, you don't have to live with a question without an answer for very long and you become bored with looking for what you know is elusive. (& maybe doesn't even exist)

There seems to be a need for thought (self) to be fully convinced that it's worth surrendering. That it's worth letting go the mind games...Like what are the benefits of giving up all that I know?!

These are mind games. Kids stories, meant to divert you from the unknown. They shout "There's safety in familiarity."
Oh, and you won't be giving up anything that you knew, because you don't know anything. You have beliefs that will change with experiences.

Love the way this sounds but how?

When you ask how, you imply that there are things that you can do to bring about this result. Is that accurate?

Doesn't feels like a judgement.

Oh, ok. That was my story. i read into what you said that it felt like you were making it up, as disapproval. Sorry.

Experiencing this helps balance the thoughts hungry for explanation.

You know how a lotus grows in the mud? (rhetorical question) It might help if you imagine a lotus plant that has been uprooted from the mud and is floating past you on a river of thoughts (thoughts that appear unhelpful.)

with love

vince