mystery momentum

[dc74]

Great question. Attention. The "I" believes it can direct attention, when observed directly (which seems to be action of attention), that happens also, another impersonal arising that happens, part of "something is happening." When you say, "be with your senses", "I" seem to follow what you say, and attention goes to the senses. So it seems like "I" am listening to you and moving my attention to my senses. When observed directly, there is no "you" doing anything, I see this now. You words arise in the same way anything arises, your words are not real. I had granted others existence as an "I" that impacts my "I", could hurt me, could help me, etc. When I'm meditating though habit I move awareness away from thought into the senses, but am "I" doing it? No, it is simply happening, I don't really control where my attention goes. There is an old story of an "I" trying to wake up, and following threads that support that process, now I see that was simply arising. "I" have never been involved and others have never been involved, not as "I"s.

[warissem]

Hi David

Great question. Attention. The "I" believes it can direct attention, when observed directly (which seems to be action of attention), that happens also, another impersonal arising that happens, part of "something is happening."

“I” which does not exist cannot believe or do anything. Yes, there are only arising of whatever : sense appearances, thoughts, feelings, …

When you say, "be with your senses", "I" seem to follow what you say, and attention goes to the senses. So it seems like "I" am listening to you and moving my attention to my senses. When observed directly, there is no "you" doing anything, I see this now. You words arise in the same way anything arises, your words are not real. I had granted others existence as an "I" that impacts my "I", could hurt me, could help me, etc. When I'm meditating though habit I move awareness away from thought into the senses, but am "I" doing it? No, it is simply happening, I don't really control where my attention goes. There is an old story of an "I" trying to wake up, and following threads that support that process, now I see that was simply arising. "I" have never been involved and others have never been involved, not as "I"s.

Yes, great job, then what is this “I” you are speaking about ?

Warissem

[dc74]

More thoughts and moods, arisings, and right, who is having them, no one, yet something happens. If there’s no I there’s no involvement, no stake, life happening just to happen, at times this feels wonderful and connected at other times achy.

[warissem]

Hi David


Are you happy with what you found? What has changed, what hasn’t changed in normal everyday life?

What do you notice different in relationships with close people?

Is seeking still going on and if so, what are you looking for?

Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?

Thank you

Warissem

[dc74]

Are you happy with what you found? What has changed, what hasn’t changed in normal everyday life?

I have found nothing, literally. Experience is different now, things are not taken as personal, things flow through, like emotion, more easily, it is all strange, that I never was, never am, never will be, emotions come and go. Nothing has changed, everything has changed, nothing matters really, sometimes sadness hits there, then I feel it all as sensation, I'm unplugging more and more from mind and emotions. Who is unplugging? This direct experiencing is becoming more of how I engage.

What do you notice different in relationships with close people?

I feel closer to them, and more distant at the same time somehow. I'm less at effect of their opinion. I care less. I'm softer.

Is seeking still going on and if so, what are you looking for?

There are days when I wake up in major brain fog, and I feel shitty all day. No one feels shitty, or shitty happens, and it is an unpleasant day. On days like that I do seek an end to feeling so numb and disconnected, and I try to find the I and I can't find anything, but misery still wins the day. I try to feel it as sensations, does not help. I wake up the next day and feel better. I don't understand what the hell is going on.

Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?

Who is here to say such a thing? I'm not being trite when I say that, I am losing a central point of reference and these questions are getting more awkward to answer. To answer your question, yes. Am I free of that illusion entirely? I would say no.

[warissem]

Hi David

Who is here to say such a thing? I'm not being trite when I say that, I am losing a central point of reference and these questions are getting more awkward to answer. To answer your question, yes. Am I free of that illusion entirely? I would say no.

Yes, it is seen that there is no separate self but the illusion continues to operate somehow, It is normal and this is due to residual tendencies and conditionings. This seeing is a beginning of a process of deconstruction of beliefs.

Now, these are the final questions. Take your time to answer each of them. You can give answers to half of them one day, the other half another day, it is up to you. Keep looking at direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you

Warissem

[dc74]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

Nope. None. Very clear now. This has always been known somehow.

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The greatest illusion of a separate self is pain. Physical pain, emotional pain. Strangely it never comes up with positives, in those I feel the absence of self. My "I" comes in around pain, and then there is something "I" can/need to do to stop the pain. Never seen this so clearly before. I have held onto and even amplified the pain in life to keep the "I" illusion going. Having seen this, now this game is no longer being played.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Obvious. Silly. Smiling. Relaxing. My mind will come in and make this tragic, even that does not hook me anymore. Before I felt lost, and like I had to figure something out, to find something, there was an "I" that needed to listen and surrender to some flow. Now there is something happening, and I'm off the hook, literally, I no longer feel burdened.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Not sure exactly what you mean. I was walking around in a tourist town, and I was feeling a familiar awkwardness when I travel alone, and was feel so disconnected from myself, and saw so clearly I was looking for others to provide something for me, to make me real in their eyes somehow, I was paying my attention externally, seeking safety, seeking to be real somehow, and it was seen that they are not an "I" either, its all just happening without any players involved.

I also published a book, and I was nervous how it was received, and I saw that it didn't matter, it was out of my hands, and it is even out of the hands of anyone who will read it, what will happen will happen, and it does not really matter because whatever happens will not happen to an "I". More sensations moving, just what is happening happening.

[warissem]

Hi David

Fine, waiting the answers for the two last questions.

Thank you

Warissem

[dc74]

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

These are all illusions. It is most strong around impulsivity. For example, when sugar is craved, and I resist the impulse. In the past I have believed I was making a choice, exerting free will, in control, based on my intention be eat less sugar. I don't know what makes things happen, I don't think I have any influence. Things just happen as far as I can now see. I don't know how it works. I know how the illusion of the "I" works, I don't know much more than that.

I'm at dinner with my father and his friend, and things seem to unfold. There is a joy there, whereas before I felt burdened. Life is just unfolding, through my dad, his friend, through me. There is no "I", and there is no "him". It is amazing how this whole civilization is just unfolding without anyone driving anything. So many of our stories are about men and women making choices, hero's, villains, all untruths, all layers upon what is happening so an "I" can exist with its own heroic narrative.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

What could I be responsible for? "I" am always after the fact, trying to frame it around me, or make something about "me". Through direct experience I witness the "I" come in after the fact and claim ownership, but things are just happening, thats all that has ever been happening, and all that will ever happen. Most are caught up in a trance, and so much drama and suffering get created. My life does not need "me".

6) Anything to add?

Gratitude is here.

[warissem]

Hi David

I am glad that this dialog has given some fruits. It was a pleasure to work with you. I will show your thread to other guides for further eventual questions. It will take a few days.

Best wishes, enjoy the ride.

Warissem

[dc74]

Thank you for guidance:)

[warissem]

Hi David

We are still waiting for questions from other guides.

Warissem

[dc74]

HI, thanks for the update. Am interested in continuing and being involved.

[warissem]

Hi David

You can join unleashed groups in facebook.

best wishes

Warissem