Rio's corner

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?

There is just AE of sensation which in itself does not suggest anything and is indescribable. AE of thought then labels 'pressure', 'top of head', 'finger' and other thoughts about a head.

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

Just AE of sensations with no suggestions. It is the AE of thought that suggests 'finger on each side of head'. But an actual 'head' in nowhere to be found.

And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them?

There is just sensations and without thought it is not known as to what is between them. Thoughts suggest 'head between pressure points'.

Without thought, how big is your head?

Without thought something called a 'head' is not known. Size of head is also not known. The distance between sensations is not known.

Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?

Without thought something called a 'head' or 'fingers on each side' is not known. Without thought 'fingers on the outside of the head' is also not known. Without thought there is just the sensations with no suggestion of an inside or outside.

Without thought, does it have a location?

The sensations do not suggest any location. it is thought that suggests 'finger on the left and right side of the head'.

thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Nice looking with the head exercise. We have looked at quite a few things so far, how are you feeling? How do you feel seeing that, in actual experience, a head cannot be found? How are you feeling overall since we started this exploration several weeks back?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

We have looked at quite a few things so far, how are you feeling?

I feel more present and less lost in thought.
I also find that I have started looking at emotions directly when they arise rather than an immediate impulse to run away from them and just going along with the stories. I am able to catch myself more frequently from getting lost in thought.
Seeing that thoughts arise by themselves and are not 'my voice' was quite liberating. I feel thoughts seem to have less pull on me now than before.

How do you feel seeing that, in actual experience, a head cannot be found?

I feel the identification with the body has loosened up more.

There was a tendency to give primacy to AE of color over smell, taste, sound, sensation. As if AE of color and objects identified within it are absolutely real. Like thought would associate 'humming' with the image of a refrigerator(AE of color) and call it real. However an actual refrigerator can't be found.

How are you feeling overall since we started this exploration several weeks back?

Overall I feel good and excited about LOOKING.I feel a little relieved with the shift from spending a lot of energy on philosophizing and thinking about the big questions, to paying close attention to actual everyday direct experience. I find it to be a much simpler and direct approach instead of just spinning my wheel listening to Guru's.
I also notice a shift in my attitude, more and more towards just looking at everything just arising all by itself. And I have been feeling grateful that there is something instead of nothing. All happening by itself.

thanks and extremely grateful for your guidance,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Your post was lovely to read.

We have looked at quite a few things so far, how are you feeling?

I feel more present and less lost in thought.
I also find that I have started looking at emotions directly when they arise rather than an immediate impulse to run away from them and just going along with the stories. I am able to catch myself more frequently from getting lost in thought.
Seeing that thoughts arise by themselves and are not 'my voice' was quite liberating. I feel thoughts seem to have less pull on me now than before.

Nice. Being able to be present with emotions, specifically bodily sensations is a wonderful thing. As you have noticed, there is a tendency to run away from them, not wanting to feel them, however being present to sensations, thought and mental images of emotions is a key component of undoing trauma, conditioning and beliefs which is part of the awakening journey.

How do you feel seeing that, in actual experience, a head cannot be found?

I feel the identification with the body has loosened up more.

We will look further at the body a little later on.

How are you feeling overall since we started this exploration several weeks back?

Overall I feel good and excited about LOOKING.I feel a little relieved with the shift from spending a lot of energy on philosophizing and thinking about the big questions, to paying close attention to actual everyday direct experience. I find it to be a much simpler and direct approach instead of just spinning my wheel listening to Guru's.

Yes, the mind wanting to know knowledge, whereas it is very simple simply being with what IS. At the end of it all…it’s just being with what IS that we are seeking.

I also notice a shift in my attitude, more and more towards just looking at everything just arising all by itself. And I have been feeling grateful that there is something instead of nothing. All happening by itself.

Lovely

thanks and extremely grateful for your guidance,

You’re welcome.

Okay…so continuing on with thoughts for a little longer.

The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game. This exercise is to help you see that narrator of the game is no different to the narrator labelled as ‘my thoughts’, and that the game played is no different to life unfolding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in and notice what the actual experience is.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how and advice about what the players should or shouldn’t be doing and how they should be playing the game - as if thought can somehow influence what is going on - as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary seems to heighten feelings, and calls for loyalty with one team or another, and expounds the importance of this choice, and further expounds the importance of the game and its outcome.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary. Just watch the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Just notice what is happening as actual experience. Notice how the muted watching feels compared to the unmuted watching.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know the commentator is talking about, (and ignore all of your own thoughts as well), and just notice the actual experience of sound. Notice how the unmuted watching feels compared to the muted watching.

What did you find when doing this exercise?

What was it like watching the game with sound on? Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?

What was it like watching the game with the sound muted?

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

What did you find when doing this exercise?

I found that all the excitement that I was experiencing was being triggered within me from the commentator's commentary and my thoughts. The game by itself was not doing that.

What was it like watching the game with sound on? Did you get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd, and/or the excitement of the commentator and his commentary of the game?

With the sound on, the game as if came alive and so much more was happening in comparison to the muted watching.
I did get caught up in the moment with the excitement of the crowd and the excitement of the commentator. The commentary was directly influencing my mood.
Things would quiet down as the commentator spoke normally. Then I would feel the sudden rush of excitement and thrill conveyed by his commentary on the game. He would make it sound as if things picked up, though in the actual game, things were as they were when watching muted.
I felt my attention was getting captivated more by his commentary than the actual game when unmuted. Very similar to being lost in thought and ignoring the actual experience in front.

What was it like watching the game with the sound muted?

It was a very different experience. It did not grab my attention nearly as much as unmuted watching. I did not experience any thrills and excitement.
I also noticed that my thoughts we more active when the game was muted than unmuted. My thoughts were trying to play the role of the commentator in their absence :)

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

No. The commentary on the soccer game is not a necessity for the play to happen. It's an added layer on top of soccer game that is going on. Just like thoughts attempting to describe 'what is' and making stories.

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

No. The inner narration of thoughts is not a necessity for the play of life to unfold. It's an added layer on top of life unfolding.
I notice a strong tendency to give meaning to everything that's happening.
Thoughts seem to cook up a lot of stories, jump to conclusion and create all kinds of emotions, instead of just staying quiet and admitting that it doesn't know and that all that(stories) is not really happening in the moment. It would be Better to just accept 'what is' for 'what is', since it is already known without trying to always describe it.


thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

Wonderful observation on how we get caught up in our own commentary about life, and how life if unfolding and why.

Until we become the observer of all thoughts, which does take practice and time, we are hypnotised by thoughts and the interpretation that thought overlays actual experience with and as. But you are not behind the 8 ball, because you are seeing how thoughts work. You are doing an excellent job of getting the most out of our exploration. Thank you for being so open, willing and diligent.

I notice a strong tendency to give meaning to everything that's happening.
Thoughts seem to cook up a lot of stories, jump to conclusion and create all kinds of emotions, instead of just staying quiet and admitting that it doesn't know and that all that(stories) is not really happening in the moment. It would be Better to just accept 'what is' for 'what is', since it is already known without trying to always describe it.

The meaning given to thoughts, colour, sound, sensation, smell and taste is illusory, because all meaning is thought content, and all thought content is fiction.

As you saw when doing the thought exercises, we cannot stop our thoughts because we are not the thinker of thought; therefore cannot control what thoughts appear, or when, or how often. We can become aware of the nature of thought, and see that it doesn’t matter what thoughts arise, they are not the enemy and that we have given thoughts all the meaning that they mean to us. How we relate to our thoughts, what meaning we give our thoughts, what meaning we give ourselves for having thoughts and for having particular kind of thoughts, is what disturbs us and not the thoughts themselves.

This sensation means this about me.
This thought means this about me.
My body means this about me.
Them doing that means this about me, and it means this about them to me.
Life bringing me that circumstance means this about me.
This feeling means this about me.
Not being happy means this about me.
Feeling angry means this about me.
Being kind means this about me.
Being peaceful means this about me.
Going to work means this about me.
Being angry at my kids means this about me.
Being helpful means this about me.

Continue to become aware of the meaning making – the ‘me’ making you do throughout your day - how you continually give yourself and life all your own meaning, which in turn keeps you tethered to the idea of personal doership, and personal doership is steeped in suffering.

Here is a bit of lightheartedness about thought. But it does give a good idea of how we experience thought. The narrator in the following clip is the narrator in our mind, and the gunfighters response to the narrator is how ‘we’ respond to the narrator in our mind. There isn’t a narrator plus our responses…they are all thought appearing that we are aware of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWs4WA--eKU

Okay, so we have become aware of what actual experience is, and what LOOKING is and how it is done. We have looked at how thoughts work. These are two key components to this exploration and beyond as you need to see what actually IS and not what thought says IS. It is a given now that you know how to LOOK to see what IS and you are aware of how thought overlays AE with stories. It’s important to implement exercises given into your daily life. It is no good just doing the exercises so you can respond to your thread. You need to put the exercises into use throughout your day as you go about your day.


So let’s begin to have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Here is a bit of lightheartedness about thought. But it does give a good idea of how we experience thought. The narrator in the following clip is the narrator in our mind, and the gunfighters response to the narrator is how ‘we’ respond to the narrator in our mind. There isn’t a narrator plus our responses…they are all thought appearing that we are aware of.

That YouTube Short Film was hilarious :D
I see that thought narrates(responds) on the previous AE of thought and creates more thought.

Continue to become aware of the meaning making – the ‘me’ making you do throughout your day - how you continually give yourself and life all your own meaning, which in turn keeps you tethered to the idea of personal doership, and personal doership is steeped in suffering.

There seems to be some sort of a value assessment(What does this mean to me/my life story, is it good or bad?) going on, that evaluates every single experience. Also attention seems to then follow suit and focus on the object deemed as highest value/importance, ignoring the rest. I feel this is how thoughts gain all the importance and overshadow what is.
Also the degree of meaning assigned seems to impact the intensity of feelings/emotions.

So let’s begin to have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

I have been doing this all day and need some more time with it. I felt Strong doer-ship energies(or something) surfacing and interrupting a clear looking.

Thanks
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hey Rio,

Here is a bit of lightheartedness about thought. But it does give a good idea of how we experience thought. The narrator in the following clip is the narrator in our mind, and the gunfighters response to the narrator is how ‘we’ respond to the narrator in our mind. There isn’t a narrator plus our responses…they are all thought appearing that we are aware of.

That YouTube Short Film was hilarious :D
I see that thought narrates(responds) on the previous AE of thought and creates more thought.

Great observation. And notice how all those thoughts are all based on the past ie past thinking. You know these thoughts because they are familiar; therefore we think what they are saying and what they are pointing to must be fact, must be true.

Continue to become aware of the meaning making – the ‘me’ making you do throughout your day - how you continually give yourself and life all your own meaning, which in turn keeps you tethered to the idea of personal doership, and personal doership is steeped in suffering.

There seems to be some sort of a value assessment(What does this mean to me/my life story, is it good or bad?) going on, that evaluates every single experience. Also attention seems to then follow suit and focus on the object deemed as highest value/importance, ignoring the rest. I feel this is how thoughts gain all the importance and overshadow what is.
Also the degree of meaning assigned seems to impact the intensity of feelings/emotions.

Another great observation. There is no hierarchy of thought. One thought is no more important than another. It is only a thought that stipulates there are varying degrees to thoughts when it comes to relevance and importance. The only difference, so to speak, in thought, is that thought is either pointing to AE or to thoughts about thought.

If you sit and observe thought you will notice that all thoughts are neutral, just like the exercise you did in seeing that sensations are simply sensations and are neutral, as it is thought that suggest one sensation is different to another and that one is more pleasant than another. The same goes for thought. The actual experience of thought isn't any different just because the content of the thought is different.

Thoughts can have a stuckness if they are habitually associated with recurring sensations in the body. When this kind of association appears, it is a good time to start digging! Usually the sensation in the body is being accepted as proof that the associated thoughts and ideas are correct. The association can be disrupted by carefully examining the body sensation and the thoughts, and seeing clearly that they are unrelated phenomena that happen to arise at the same time. This takes patience, the first few times it may not happen quickly, though over time it will become easier and quicker.

So let’s begin to have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions.
1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

I have been doing this all day and need some more time with it. I felt Strong doer-ship energies(or something) surfacing and interrupting a clear looking.

The sense or idea of being the doer will remain. It has always been that way and so that isn’t going to change. Just because the idea/sense is there, doesn’t make it so. So allow the idea of being the doer to be there (you have no choice in that!) and just look at what the exercise is trying to get you to see. The words ‘sense’ and ‘feeling’ always indicates a thought (sometimes an interpretation of a body sensation, but not necessarily a correct interpretation.)

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Thank you for throwing so many priceless nuggets of wisdom/seeing my way :)
It's really helping me make some breakthroughs.

And notice how all those thoughts are all based on the past ie past thinking. You know these thoughts because they are familiar; therefore we think what they are saying and what they are pointing to must be fact, must be true.

Yes, the familiarity is how they slide by my critical thinking/discernment and I end up believing them. I noticed that I will have to be more vigilant to catch these.

If you sit and observe thought you will notice that all thoughts are neutral, just like the exercise you did in seeing that sensations

I did the looking you suggested and now I see that Thoughts are also neutral like sensations.

Usually the sensation in the body is being accepted as proof that the associated thoughts and ideas are correct.

I see that Sensations are believed to be associated with what is 'real'. Thoughts are piggybacking on this to assert their validity and creating stuckness. I have got my shovel ready for this one :)

how you continually give yourself and life all your own meaning

In other words I have given all the power to the experience to then turn around and affect me. The experience in itself is meaningless. Actually, I am the source of all the meaning. Thanks for this great pointer.

Continue to become aware of the meaning making – the ‘me’ making you do throughout your day

I have started practicing this. Seeing that even thoughts are neutral in themselves, and I give them meaning was very helpful in diffusing their hold somewhat.

So let’s begin to have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

I find this exercise very challenging. I am surprised that it was the case, even though I had already subscribed to the idea of 'no free will' and 'non-doership'. I guess this is the power of 'looking'. To make conceptual understanding, experiential.

How is the movement controlled?

I don't know when exactly the palm will turn up/down. It just happened many times during the day.
Feels similar to not knowing what my next thought is going to be.

Does a thought control it?

No, Thought does not control it. However, Thought arises and keeps claiming ownership after every movement - 'I did that'.
A couple times, a thought arose 'let's turn the palm over now' and then the palm turned over, then another thought arose suggesting that 'see, that proves thought is in control'. However, if/when exactly this sequence will play out was not in anyone's control.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

I cannot locate a 'controller'. There is the AE of color(moving hand), AE of sensation(movement) and AE of thoughts about the movement. But no controller to be found.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

I also noticed that there was no decision on selecting which hand should be used for the exercise. Always the right hand. However, after righting this down, the left hand started :)
The hand just turns over when it wants to. I cannot find the 'decision point'.
However, A couple times, a thought arose 'let's turn the palm over now' and then the palm turned over. But there was no decision point in between the thought and the palm turning over.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I cannot find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up/down. It just happens and then a thought arises saying that 'Off-course I did it, who else?'
Then another thought(spiritual concept) arises 'It happened based on the genes and up to date conditioning'
But I cannot find the 'I' that did it neither the genes nor the conditioning.

There still seems to be a lot of resistance(thoughts) to the idea of 'no controller' in spite the looking. I feel my looking was not clear enough.

Thanks,
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Thank you for throwing so many priceless nuggets of wisdom/seeing my way :)
It's really helping me make some breakthroughs.

Happy to be of help! :)

And notice how all those thoughts are all based on the past ie past thinking. You know these thoughts because they are familiar; therefore we think what they are saying and what they are pointing to must be fact, must be true.

Yes, the familiarity is how they slide by my critical thinking/discernment and I end up believing them. I noticed that I will have to be more vigilant to catch these.

If you look at all your thoughts, not just thoughts about objects, but even thoughts about the room you wake up in, the people you know, people you don’t know, the things you do….everything….all of it…it is all steeped in past thoughts/learnings. There is a quote I love which is by Rumi, I think…but not sure, which says something like, you don’t ever relate to the person in front of you, you only relate to your image of them. And this is so true of everything. We relate to everything from past thoughts and doings instead of seeing everything as it presents itself in the present moment. In other words, to empty our mind of what we think we know and look with fresh ‘eyes’ at what is actually presenting itself, in the present moment…we just continue to live in the past or the future and never in the present moment. This goes for how you are showing up as well. We immediately interpret what is going on for us, so we keep confirming that we are this, and we are that.

If you sit and observe thought you will notice that all thoughts are neutral, just like the exercise you did in seeing that sensations

I did the looking you suggested and now I see that Thoughts are also neutral like sensations.

Don’t expect this to be easy. Many years of ingrained thinking and believing will pull you into believing, be it consciously or unconsciously. Just start to become aware of it.

Usually the sensation in the body is being accepted as proof that the associated thoughts and ideas are correct.

I see that Sensations are believed to be associated with what is 'real'. Thoughts are piggybacking on this to assert their validity and creating stuckness. I have got my shovel ready for this one :)

Haha! You might want to go to the gym a little more often to pump up those muscles for extra strength…it is needed more often than not when undoing beliefs, trauma and conditioning.

how you continually give yourself and life all your own meaning

In other words I have given all the power to the experience to then turn around and affect me. The experience in itself is meaningless. Actually, I am the source of all the meaning. Thanks for this great pointer.

Yes, you are the source of all the meaning. How you perceive yourself, others and the world is based on the meaning you have given everything! And that’s the good news. If the meaning given was external, then you would have no means of changing your mind…of seeing and experiencing things differently.

Continue to become aware of the meaning making – the ‘me’ making you do throughout your day

I have started practicing this. Seeing that even thoughts are neutral in themselves, and I give them meaning was very helpful in diffusing their hold somewhat.

There will be thoughts and beliefs that are like super glue because they are attached to emotions. These will need to be investigated in order to process them and see them for what they are.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

I find this exercise very challenging. I am surprised that it was the case, even though I had already subscribed to the idea of 'no free will' and 'non-doership'. I guess this is the power of 'looking'. To make conceptual understanding, experiential.

Don’t be surprised. The idea of not being the controller is not an easy belief to give over. We have been told for years to be responsible, to be accountable and that the one thing we have is control! We choose and decide...that we control our thoughts, emotions, actions, doings…and how well we do this will dictate if we have a successful and happy life or a life of failings and suffering!! None of that is true…to me, that was fantastic news! So the idea of being in control permeates everything we think we think, say, do and feel. It gets undone slowly and over time. I love how the rug isn’t just ripped out from underneath us…it is gradually and gently unravelled.

Does a thought control it?

No, Thought does not control it. However, Thought arises and keeps claiming ownership after every movement - 'I did that'.
A couple times, a thought arose 'let's turn the palm over now' and then the palm turned over, then another thought arose suggesting that 'see, that proves thought is in control'. However, if/when exactly this sequence will play out was not in anyone's control.

Have you ever become aware of scratching an itch? You had no idea when you started to ‘absent-mindedly’ scratch it…but you find yourself doing so?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

I cannot locate a 'controller'. There is the AE of color(moving hand), AE of sensation(movement) and AE of thoughts about the movement. But no controller to be found.

Great observation of actual experience! Here is a great exercise to see how the illusion of the body is ‘created’, so to speak. Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight (ie colour) - the object seen. In this example, the object being the ‘hand’ (colour labelled as ‘hand’)

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I cannot find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up/down. It just happens and then a thought arises saying that 'Off-course I did it, who else?'

And can you find an actual “I” in the thought, “'Off-course I did it, who else”, or is the “I” in narrative alone?

Then another thought(spiritual concept) arises 'It happened based on the genes and up to date conditioning'
But I cannot find the 'I' that did it neither the genes nor the conditioning.

Yes, I like Roger Castillo’s teachings too, and what I like about it is that it is practical. The idea of denying that you do wake up in the morning, you eat breakfast, brush your teeth and go about your day, that you have wife, child and a mortgage or whatever the case may be, is ridiculous. We are not denying that there is a self...it's just that we don't know what it is.

There still seems to be a lot of resistance(thoughts) to the idea of 'no controller' in spite the looking. I feel my looking was not clear enough.

Is there an expectation here that once you have looked then it should be done and dusted with no further looking needed, or that no further thoughts that point to there being a controller should appear? You will have to continue to look. But as I said in my previous post. The idea of being the doer remains, it’s just that eventually the idea will click, as you continue to notice...that you are not actually doing anything, but that doesn’t mean that the idea of being the doer will fall away…it’s just an inner knowing that you are not the doer of any doings! There never has been a you who has been doing, not yesterday, not a year ago, not 5 years ago, and there won't be one tomorrow either…and yet the idea of a doer has always been. But seeing through the doer will take time, and a continuing to look for the controller/doer. It is another one of those deeply ingrained beliefs…and one that the mind doesn’t want to give over easily. You have to remember that we are stripping away identifiers and identifications…and this stripping continues well after the idea of the separate self has been seen through…and it scary…it’s not a walk in the park. So it is good that it happens slowly. Just ponder for a moment or two…to who would you be without your story? Let that really sink in and see what happens in the body and watch what happens in the mind! So you have to be gentle with yourself and patient with yourself.

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

This goes for how you are showing up as well. We immediately interpret what is going on for us, so we keep confirming that we are this, and we are that.

Yes, the interpretation of every experience seems to start with identification with the body image that appears in the AE of color. Then each object gets labeled and it's value/what it means to me(story of me).

Have you ever become aware of scratching an itch? You had no idea when you started to ‘absent-mindedly’ scratch it…but you find yourself doing so?

Yes, I noticed a lot of body movements while they were taking place throughout the day. Scratching an itch, random movements of hands and legs to different positions, stretching, adjusting the blankets, turning left/right while lying down etc. I seem to be okay with the idea of it just happens by itself for these movements(involuntary). It's easy to see that a thought claiming to be the doer comes only after I was aware of the movement.
However when it comes to voluntary movements like the exercise(palm up/down) we just did, I find it harder to see though the illusion of doer-ship.
Even the experience of becoming aware of breathing and voluntarily holding the breath/breathing consciously, seems to be very different than the breathing which is anyways going on all day long without my doing.

I like Roger Castillo’s teachings too, and what I like about it is that it is practical.

I got exposed to his teachings early on. It's become a part of my thought process/conditioning. His concepts arise and cutoff any thoughts related to guilt, pride, blame and shame.

We are not denying that there is a self...it's just that we don't know what it is.

I shall contemplate on this more.

Is there an expectation here that once you have looked then it should be done and dusted with no further looking needed, or that no further thoughts that point to there being a controller should appear?

Yes, there is an unreasonable expectation to understand everything in one go. Thanks for making me aware of that.

So you have to be gentle with yourself and patient with yourself.

thanks

Just ponder for a moment or two…to who would you be without your story? Let that really sink in and see what happens in the body and watch what happens in the mind!

There is a deep relaxation in the body. The mind goes blank(no conscious thoughts for a moment) also any unconscious desires/wants(constant seeking energy) for something to happen seem to cease. I would describe it as a state of simply 'being'.

I cannot find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up/down. It just happens and then a thought arises saying that 'Off-course I did it, who else?'

And can you find an actual “I” in the thought, “'Off-course I did it, who else”, or is the “I” in narrative alone?

I cannot find the actual "I" in the thought -“'Off-course I did it, who else”.
The "I" is in the narrative alone. There is just the AE of thought with those words at face value. And then there is some sensation it hooks on to for validity.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Yes. I am able to discern between the 2 AE's. The AE of color is one mode of knowing, and the AE of sensation is another mode of knowing and are independent of each other. The AE of sensation(hand tingling) is not contained inside the AE of color(image of hand)

Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

They are independent of each other, appear with equal authority of looking and are 2 completely different modes of knowing. I cannot find any hierarchy or link between them.I can see that the idea of the sensation coming from the image of hand is false.

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?

There is no link between the AE of sensation and the AE of color. They stand independent and equally valid modes of knowing. The AE of sensation is not dependent, on the AE of color being primary.
The sensation is not coming from the sight(color labeled as 'hand')
Thought links the sensation with the image of the hand.

[forgetmenot]

Hi Rio,

Have you ever become aware of scratching an itch? You had no idea when you started to ‘absent-mindedly’ scratch it…but you find yourself doing so?

However when it comes to voluntary movements like the exercise(palm up/down) we just did, I find it harder to see though the illusion of doer-ship.
Even the experience of becoming aware of breathing and voluntarily holding the breath/breathing consciously, seems to be very different than the breathing which is anyways going on all day long without my doing.

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.

Focus on focussing, attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?

Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?

What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?

Is thought in control of attention?
Can you find the ‘me’ that is in control of attention or does attention and focus simply happen?

And then we have to ask…is there really such a thing as attention and focus?
Or is experience always exactly as it is.
What is it that tells a story about "now this is in focus and that is out of focus"?

Is there something other than experience (ie Consciousness) that is being experienced? Is what thought calls sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and thought made from or of something different other than Consciousness?

I like Roger Castillo’s teachings too, and what I like about it is that it is practical.

I got exposed to his teachings early on. It's become a part of my thought process/conditioning. His concepts arise and cutoff any thoughts related to guilt, pride, blame and shame.

As long as the emotions are fully experienced and the stories attached to the emotions are fully awared…then that is great. However, if these things aren’t happening, then you will be continually caught up in the same stories, emotions, conditioning, beliefs and concepts be they conscious or unconscious.

And can you find an actual “I” in the thought, “'Off-course I did it, who else”, or is the “I” in narrative alone?

I cannot find the actual "I" in the thought -“'Off-course I did it, who else”.
The "I" is in the narrative alone. There is just the AE of thought with those words at face value. And then there is some sensation it hooks on to for validity.

So LOOKING is nice and simple!

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Yes. I am able to discern between the 2 AE's. The AE of color is one mode of knowing, and the AE of sensation is another mode of knowing and are independent of each other. The AE of sensation(hand tingling) is not contained inside the AE of color(image of hand)

Here is a great clip which shows how there is no correlation between sensation and colour labelled as ‘hand’!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DphlhmtGRqI

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.

Focus on focussing, attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?

I do not move it. Attention moves by itself. From Breathing, to thinking, to sensations, to hearing, so on and so forth. It's non stop AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts one after another.

Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?

I do not control the focus. It moves from one AE type to Another all by itself. I do not know what the next AE is going to be.

What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?

I cannot find anything that moves the attention from one AE to another. It moves on its own from one AE to the next.

Is thought in control of attention?
Can you find the ‘me’ that is in control of attention or does attention and focus simply happen?

Thought is not in control of attention. Attention moves from one AE to another. AE of thought only comes into play when attention goes to thought.
My experience is of comprised of non stop AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts one after another.So none of the AE's are in control of attention.
'me' is contained inside the AE of thought. 'me' and it's story doesn't even come into play until attention rests on AE of thought. So 'me' is not control of the attention, focus simply happens.

And then we have to ask…is there really such a thing as attention and focus?
Or is experience always exactly as it is.
What is it that tells a story about "now this is in focus and that is out of focus"?

I can't find anything called 'attention' or 'focus' in direct experience.
Experience is exactly as it is.In direct experience there is just non stop AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts one after another. 'attention' and 'focus' are AE's of thought.
"now this is in focus and that is out of focus" is an AE of thought that comes after an AE was experienced - a story.

A little tangent - Just as attention cannot be found, I can't find beliefs either in direct experience. There is just AE of thought which is assumed to arise from underlying beliefs. I am not clear on beliefs and what gives meaning to every experience.

Is there something other than experience (ie Consciousness) that is being experienced? Is what thought calls sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and thought made from or of something different other than Consciousness?

There is nothing other than experience(AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts) that is being experienced.
What thought calls sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and thought are made from consciousness. I do not experience anything other than consciousness.

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?

Experience consists of non stop AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts one after another. The thinker, hearer, see-er, feeler, smeller, taster cannot be found.
An "I" cannot be found in any of the AE's other than AE of thought at face value.
However, There is awareness of all these AE's, in other words all these AE's are known.Can that be considered an Experiencer? Even though, the experiencer can't be found inside experince(all AE's)

Here is a great clip which shows how there is no correlation between sensation and colour labelled as ‘hand’!

Thanks for sharing. It's scary how the brain can be fooled into believing the illusion within a few minutes.

Thanks.
Rio

[forgetmenot]

Hello Rio,

Focus on focussing, attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?

I do not move it. Attention moves by itself. From Breathing, to thinking, to sensations, to hearing, so on and so forth. It's non stop AE's of sound, sight, smell, taste, sensations and thoughts one after another.

Exactly! Many guru’s talk about finding and becoming/being the emptiness. Emptiness is nothing but an idea. The inherent 'emptiness' of appearances can be realised but the Knowing/THIS/Experience/Consciousness never shows up "empty"...as you have noticed! There is always something appearing be it sound, colour, taste, smell, thought or sensation. The Knowing always only shows up with what is known (and what is known is your direct actual experience) because the knowing and known are one and the same ie knowingknown.

It is thought that divides THIS into sound, smell, taste, sensation, colour and thought, and thought then further divides those into sub-categories and those subcategories into further categories and so on.

When you sit and are aware of sounds, colours, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts, are these ‘things’ divided from each other? In other words, is there a dividing line between these experiences? Is there sound AND colour AND smell AND taste AND sensation AND thought, or is there just one seamless whole ie soundcoloursmelltastesensationthought?

What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?
I cannot find anything that moves the attention from one AE to another. It moves on its own from one AE to the next.

Lovely. Attention/focus moves where it moves, and it seems that our attention/focus is mainly on our thoughts, where we get ‘lost in thought’ until we become less and less hypnotised by our thoughts.

Is thought in control of attention?
Can you find the ‘me’ that is in control of attention or does attention and focus simply happen?

'me' is contained inside the AE of thought. 'me' and it's story doesn't even come into play until attention rests on AE of thought. So 'me' is not control of the attention, focus simply happens.

Yes, that separate ‘me’ that thinks it is in control, that it has free will and is separate from everything else, cannot be found.

A little tangent - Just as attention cannot be found, I can't find beliefs either in direct experience. There is just AE of thought which is assumed to arise from underlying beliefs. I am not clear on beliefs and what gives meaning to every experience.

You do! Who else would give meaning to every experience. You learned to give meaning to things via your parents, education, culture, peers etc. You learned to give meaning to yourself through conditioning/ trauma/beliefs…in other words from life’s experiences. You are that which is aware of where focus goes and you are that which gets lost in thought, for example, or who drifts off into the notes of beautiful music. You're not actually lost, it is just that your awareness is focussed solely on thoughts or the music....but you cannot be one without the other. There are not two separate you’s…one which is simply aware and the other which is a figment of your imagination. Whose imagination would that be but yours! The false self is that which is a figment of imagination…the false self is the psychological process with which we have become so accustomed to identifying with…the one that becomes/believes that they are their conditioning, beliefs, emotions and trauma responses. The one that is deficient, unworthy, traumatised, cultured, suffering etc self. This false self has no enduring quality—it is neither thing, noun, nor person. It is a process that we mistake for who we are.

The pointer that you are awareness isn’t about becoming some sort of disassociated Being that is above the fray! The pointer that you are awareness and that you are aware of all experiences, and yet not affected by them, is so that you can start to create space around the false self ie the psychological self so as to give you an opportunity to investigate what this self is as it arises in order to process emotions, thought and stories that create not only the story of this self, but where we believe we are that deficient, traumatised, autonomous self. The belief, for example of ‘not been good enough’, creates this false self which determines how you react to life…the one that feels they need to measure up, or needs people’s love and approval in order to be. We live through those reactions because we believe we are those clusters of feelings, emotions, sensations thoughts and reactions of the 'not good enough' self. We live through that self in that moment and we keep living out the various deficient, traumatised and conditioned selves until we see they are illusory. This is how we keep living in the past, instead of living in the present moment. What is it exactly that is ‘not good enough’? It can’t be you, because what you ARE is Whole and does not need others love and approval to BE. What you ARE does not need to measure up or prove itself to BE. Becoming aware that there is no free will helps in all of this because we begin to realise that we had no choice, no control in believing that we are, and had become, those psychological persona's because of what we did or didn't do and through being told who we are from children onwards. It was, and is out of our hands! Even when there is a realisation that you are not the body, that doesn't mean that you go 'poof'. You continue out living life as a body in the world, until that comes to an end....it's just that you have a knowing that you are not the body and what you are does not come to an end when the body does...but life goes on as it always has.

However, There is awareness of all these AE's, in other words all these AE's are known.Can that be considered an Experiencer? Even though, the experiencer can't be found inside experince(all AE's)

Can a thought or sound, for example be known without your knowing of them? Can they appear outside of your awareness? In other words can you find where a sound ends and the knowing of it begins? Or are they all happening in your field of awareness? Is there knowing and known or just knowingknown?

Do this with thought as well.
In actual experience, is there a dividing line between where a thought ends and where the knowing of it starts? Is there an actual distance between a thought and the knowing of it, or are they closer than close?
Can it be known where a thought ends and the knowing of it begins?
Can such a distinction be found, or are thoughts and the knowing of thought, one and the same experience?
Can a thought be known without the knowing of it?

Here is a great clip which shows how there is no correlation between sensation and colour labelled as ‘hand’!

Thanks for sharing. It's scary how the brain can be fooled into believing the illusion within a few minutes.

What brain? Can a brain be found in/as your direct actual experience?

Kay

[rio]

Hi Kay,

When you sit and are aware of sounds, colours, smells, tastes, sensations and thoughts, are these ‘things’ divided from each other? In other words, is there a dividing line between these experiences? Is there sound AND colour AND smell AND taste AND sensation AND thought, or is there just one seamless whole ie soundcoloursmelltastesensationthought?

When I sit and am aware of direct experience, what thought labels as sounds,colors,smells.tastes, sensations and thoughts are not divided from each other.
I cannot find a dividing line separating all these AE's from each other.
There is just one seamless whole soundcoloursmelltastesensationthought.
There is always something appearing and it is without any breaks/division. I am not aware of a moment of emptiness that I could call a dividing break between experience.

There are not two separate you’s…one which is simply aware and the other which is a figment of your imagination.

It feels like I am relating to life from these 2 point of views at different points during the day.
Sometimes I look at (give meaning to) whatever is arising from an Awareness standpoint and things are what they are and do not affect me. I don't know how things arise and what they are and I am in awe that there is something other than nothing and there is gratitude for whatever arises instead of judgment.
Most other times I seem to be looking at everything from the standpoint of the limited/not good enough 'me' and it's beliefs about life. As if I know how life should be :(

Whose imagination would that be but yours! The false self is that which is a figment of imagination…the false self is the psychological process with which we have become so accustomed to identifying with

Feels like habit, familiarity and the continuous reinforcement of this world view from the people/society around me that keeps me tethered to this false identification.

What is it exactly that is ‘not good enough’? It can’t be you, because what you ARE is Whole and does not need others love and approval to BE. What you ARE does not need to measure up or prove itself to BE

I resonate with this, even want it to be the case, even know that this has to be the case but I just don't understand why I still cannot see/accept it fully.
You probably hear this complain a lot :)

Can a thought or sound, for example be known without your knowing of them?

No. Them being know and my knowing of them are the same thing which happens at the same time.

Can they appear outside of your awareness?

This is a tough one
I am only aware of what is going on in my awareness. I don't know if they exist outside my awareness. I wouldn't be able to tell if they appear outside my awareness.
Having said that, Have I ever come in contact with anything outside my awareness? No. Every experience is inside awareness.

Should I assume that there is something outside awareness?
In case of thought, It's easier to say that they don't exist outside my awareness since it is not a shared experience and other people cannot see my thoughts. Tough one for me in-case of objects. I don't know.
I am still having difficulty with the idea that the sound/objects/world doesn't exist out there apart from my knowing of it.

Also, during this exercise I found that there aren't 2 things - a sound and the knowing of the sound.There is just the knowing of the sound.
Can the knowing of something exist outside awareness? No. Knowing is what an experience is.

In other words can you find where a sound ends and the knowing of it begins? Or are they all happening in your field of awareness?

I cannot find where a sound ends and the knowing of it begins. The knowing of the sound is the same as the sound arising in my field of awareness.They are not 2 separate things.

Is there knowing and known or just knowingknown?

There is just knowingknown.

Do this with thought as well.
In actual experience, is there a dividing line between where a thought ends and where the knowing of it starts?

There is no dividing line between where a thought ends and where the knowing of it starts. The knowing of the thought is the thought. They are not 2 separate things.

Is there an actual distance between a thought and the knowing of it, or are they closer than close?

There is no distance between the thought and the knowing of it. They are closer than close. They are the exact same thing.

Can it be known where a thought ends and the knowing of it begins?

The knowing of the thought begins with the thought and ends with the thought. The knowing of the thought does not start after the thought has arisen. There is just knowing of the thought in actual experience.

Can such a distinction be found, or are thoughts and the knowing of thought, one and the same experience?

Such a distinction cannot be found. The thought and the knowing of the thought is one and the same experience.

Can a thought be known without the knowing of it?

No. All there is to a thought is the knowing of it.

thanks,
Rio