Seeing No Self

[Lubo]

Hi Leviathan,

Wonderful!

To continue to believe in the illusion of a separate self creates resistance and anxiety, like an object opposing the flow of a water current.

Lol :) beautifully said


What has changed in normal everyday life since you came to LU?

l.

[Leviathan77]

What has changed in normal everyday life since you came to LU?oi

Hi Lubo.

I feel a certain inability to put the genie back into the bottle. Just be looking at what is happening, it is easy to see that this aura of 'me' surrounding thoughts, feelings, the senses of the body, does not exist. I feel free.

[Lubo]

:) Nice

Give me some examples where "I" usually appears? And now what happens in these cases?

Describe as fully as it's possible.

lubo

[Leviathan77]

:) Nice

Give me some examples where "I" usually appears? And now what happens in these cases?

Describe as fully as it's possible.

lubo

If I have thoughts about something I am doing that day, or ruminating, the character Leviathan will show up in thoughts as something separate from thought. But if I stop and look, I see there is only thinking and no Leviathan. If there is feeling coinciding with thinking, I see there is feeling and thinking occurring without a separate self doing or experiencing these thoughts and feelings.

[Lubo]

Yes, you could say that.
Thank you for the reply.

Could you give 3 examples from your direct experience (life), what happens in these different situations?
Describe it as fully as it's possible.

l.

[Leviathan77]

Yes, you could say that.
Thank you for the reply.

Could you give 3 examples from your direct experience (life), what happens in these different situations?
Describe it as fully as it's possible.

l.

I'm sorry for the delayed response. I was unexpectedly unavailable this past weekend.

Sometimes when I am talking to people there is a slightly feeling of anxiety to openness that is holding ‘me’ back, or attached to ‘me.’ But by seeing that there is no ‘me’ in the anxiety, and that it is just anxiety, communication is allowed to proceed uninhibited by an attachment to anxiety.

I notice that there is sometimes a sense of ‘me’ as a feeling in the head, but when looking at this sensation there is no ‘me.’ There are only physical sensations, of tension and energy in the head.

There is a sense of me in acknowledging a feeling of frustration, due to impatience, but looking at frustration I see there is no separate self. There is only this feeling of frustration occurring along with tension in the chest, and the mental labelling of the feelings.

[Lubo]

Hi Leviathan,
Beautiful :)

So, are there any doubts?
Are you ready to finish this investigation here in LU?

lubo

[Leviathan77]

Hi Leviathan,
Beautiful :)

So, are there any doubts?
Are you ready to finish this investigation here in LU?

lubo

Hi Lubo. Yes, thank you. I greatly appreciate your guidance in this inquiry.

I have no doubts whatsoever.

[Lubo]

Hi Leviathan,
Here are the final questions that help other guides to check if I covered everything.

Please answer as fully as you see it now:

1. Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2. Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience.

3. How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

4. What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5a. Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
5b. What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6. Anything to add?

Take your time,
lubo

[Leviathan77]

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there is no separate entity called me anywhere at all. I look in thoughts, I look in the body, I look in feelings, but there is no separate self anywhere. And there never was.

Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience.

The illusion of the separate self is a habit, it's being a trance unaware of what is happening. But the 'me' cannot be found.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

I notice that the bloated sense of 'me' is gone, and everything feels more lucid and streamlined. Everything is still intact as it was, with a familiar inner monologue, feelings, anxieties, etc. I also feel a greater capacity for spontaneous joy.

What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Looking to see there was no 'me' in anything, in thought, pain, vision, comfort, etc. There is no 'cream filling' to these phenomena, or anything operating behind the scenes.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing makes things happen because there is no cause. If I'm choosing between a turkey sandwich and a Reuben, there is an experience of the options being weighed, and the emotional conviction of making a choice, but there is no separate self existing outside of experience that is directing the process of choosing. Choosing occurs spontaneously.

If I were to take a sip of my drink, there is a desire to drink, followed the mechanics in space making it happen, all without effort of some separate self causing anything to happen. It just happens.
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

There is no me to be responsible, no separate self to cause something for which to be held responsible.

Just like with choice, I'm typing this sentence and the meaning does not come from any separate self, and words are suddenly created with movement of the fingers across the keypad without the direction or effort of a separate self. There is no me responsible for the creation of this response.

Anything to add?

I have nothing to add. I'm just enjoying my experience.

[Lubo]

Hi Leviathan,

Thanks for the replay.
There are some questions from other guides.
Take a look and answer each one individually,

1.Describe decision & give examples from experience.
2.Describe intention & give examples from experience.
3.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
4.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
5.Describe control & give examples from experience.

Thank you,
l.

[Leviathan77]

Hi Leviathan,

Thanks for the replay.
There are some questions from other guides.
Take a look and answer each one individually,

1.Describe decision & give examples from experience.
2.Describe intention & give examples from experience.
3.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
4.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
5.Describe control & give examples from experience.

Thank you,
l.

1.

Making a decision is the illusion of a separate self acting as the chief executive to the body, thoughts, emotions, etc. that determines the course of life. However, there is no separate self involved or acting on the thoughts, emotions, etc. from the outside.

When hearing the alarm in the morning, and deciding at what moment to get out of bed, there is the simultaneous feeling of comfort of being in bed, the thought process of knowing that I must get up, the emotional conviction of a decision made, and then the body moving out of the bed. At no point does a separate self act on thoughts, or feelings in deciding when to precisely get out of bed. Deciding and getting out of bed suddenly occur without any separate self planning them in advance.

When deciding how to respond to an email, the contents of the email are read and understood and then there is a response in thinking, on what should be written. The process is reflexive, and occurs without a separate self making a decision outside of thinking.

2.

Intention is a sudden emergent desire or conviction to meet some end, not inserted into emotions and thoughts by any separate self. Intention is an automatic focusing of attention towards some end.

If there is an intention to sit down, there is acknowledgment of fatigue in the legs, and of a desire and associated thought to sit, but there is never any separate self directing the process. Or puppeteer pulling the strings of thought, movement, desire, etc.

When there is intention to use the toilet, because I feel that my bladder has expanded, there is recognition of the need to use the toilet and subsequent action. There is no effort of a separate self to cause this to happen, or to create the intention or recognize it.

3.

Free will is the idea that there is some director behind the scenes of one’s life that is at the control panel, making one of infinite choices. But outside of thought, desire, action, etc. there is nothing else, and no separate self acting with an independent will.

I go to work everyday, and supposedly have the free will not to go also. However, the choice to go to work or not to go to work is not the choice of a separate self. There is a desire to go to work, and all associated actions, but at no point does a ‘me’ have any direction in the process. All actions and desires emerge as they do, without pre-mediation from beyond desire, action, etc.

There is no free will in taking a sip of water, as there is recognition of the feeling of thirst and proximity of the water bottle, and my arm moves without being directed by ‘me’ and proceeds to bring the glass to my mouth to drink. There is no me that creates the physiological sense of thirst, movement of the arms, etc.

4

Choice is the illusion that one of multiple possibilities is being lived out, and that one had the power to influence life in choosing the path being lived. However there is no real choice as event unfold without influence of a separate self, and reality is only being compared to this illusion of choice. This creates suffering when a separate self is asserted and the reality being lived is at ends with the illusion being asserted.

When comping on guitar, I have the choice between choosing one of several minor chords to play next in the sequence. But in the process of choosing, a choice is made without a separate self. Several possibilities are known, but the mind rests on one and the fingers position themselves accordingly without a separate self causing the finger to move or the choice to be made.

When choosing between two Nine Inch Nails songs to listen to next the desire to select one arises without a separate deciding to decide, or creating the desire to select one. Choice happens automatically, without need for a separate self.

5.

Control is the attempt to influence events with an imagined separate self. It is the illusion that there is a separate self in charge of the body, of thoughts, etc. It is also a source of stress, as there is no separate self or ability to influence anything.

When waiting to leave for work, and looking at the clock. There is the desire to control the situation so not to wait, which creates stress when a separate self attempts to resist the flow of events happening naturally. When anticipating a desire response from a person, the body tightens, and there is psychological and emotional tension as well, because of the illusion there is a separate self that can affect and be affected by the response.

[Lubo]

Nice job.
Thank you very much!

There is one thing:

but the mind rests on one and the fingers position themselves accordingly without a separate self causing the finger to move or the choice to be made.

Is it true that there is a mind?
Who can choose?

l.

[Leviathan77]

There is one thing:o

but the mind rests on one and the fingers position themselves accordingly without a separate self causing the finger to move or the choice to be made.

Is it true that there is a mind?
Who can choose?

No, there is no mind. There is knowledge of the chord, and one is suddenly decided upon and played without anyone behind reality making the choice.

That was a habit of writing

[Lubo]

Hi Leviathan,
Nice work. Thank you.

There are two final questions:

1. Please explain, what is the "separate self"?
2. Look right now at this moment, what are you?

lubo