Oh, you are most welcome :-)Thank you for your kindness Luchana,
Undertand but Can't See
Re: Undertand but Can't See
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand and but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
I don't know where the previous thought went. It's just disappear.
Honestly, the exercise is not easy because I also keep noticing what happening in the surrounding, even when I close my eyes, I keep hearing the sounds, sensations of the skins and touched things, and If I tried to concentrate I felt contractions, focusing on thoughts only cannot be done. I'm sorry, maybe I'll try again later a few times and get back again to report to you. Many thanks!
Regards,
Reza
No, and I can't even know when the first comes and the last thought like the tenth? I lost count, they're all so fuzzy.When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?
No, like I said they're all not clearly seen like when the eyes see things, thoughts are blurry and random, hazy and obscure.Did you know the order when you start doing this?
Nothing arrange the thoughts, and no well-defined boundaries seen between thoughts, and even the order of appearance cannot known, so there's no exact particular order.Did you arrange the thoughts in that particular order exactly?
No. At first I thought I can guess, but it just another thought! Hahaha - :) Nobody know that the next thought is another thought trying to guess, but thought cannot guess, it's just the content and it's fictious. It's only an arising thought after another.Do you know which thought will be next before it appears?
Me trying to follow a thought is just another thought too, a Thought with a story of following another thought :-)Can you follow a thought to its destination?
I don't know where the previous thought went. It's just disappear.
No, and the funny thing is I thought if I can just trace back like remembering the thoughts in reverse order, but then I realized it's just another content of a thought. And the place where the thoughts first came cannot be seen, they're just popping & noticed, thoughts come and go.Can you trace a thought back from where it has come?
Honestly, the exercise is not easy because I also keep noticing what happening in the surrounding, even when I close my eyes, I keep hearing the sounds, sensations of the skins and touched things, and If I tried to concentrate I felt contractions, focusing on thoughts only cannot be done. I'm sorry, maybe I'll try again later a few times and get back again to report to you. Many thanks!
Regards,
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
You did another very good looking.
Yep, the thought cannot guess, but what can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
They are here and this experience cannot be denied.
What about the thinker then?
Who or what is producing them?
Can an inherent thinker be locate?
So there are thoughts and sensations about a me, but are they me, Reza?
Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?
Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?
Look many, many times whenever it is possible.
Much love,
Luchana
When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?Did you know the order when you start doing this?No, and I can't even know when the first comes and the last thought like the tenth? I lost count, they're all so fuzzy.No, like I said they're all not clearly seen like when the eyes see things, thoughts are blurry and random, hazy and obscure.
You did another very good looking.
And I'm smiling too :-)No. At first I thought I can guess, but it just another thought! Hahaha - :) Nobody know that the next thought is another thought trying to guess, but thought cannot guess, it's just the content and it's fictious. It's only an arising thought after another.
Yep, the thought cannot guess, but what can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
Nice. Thoughts pops up out of nowhere, hang on for a while and disappear nowhere.Can you follow a thought to its destination?Can you trace a thought back from where it has come?Me trying to follow a thought is just another thought too, a Thought with a story of following another thought :-)
I don't know where the previous thought went. It's just disappear.No, and the funny thing is I thought if I can just trace back like remembering the thoughts in reverse order, but then I realized it's just another content of a thought. And the place where the thoughts first came cannot be seen, they're just popping & noticed, thoughts come and go.
They are here and this experience cannot be denied.
What about the thinker then?
Who or what is producing them?
Can an inherent thinker be locate?
You are doing really great. No need to concentrate hard, just notice how everything is simply experienced - there are sounds, smells. sensations, even with the eyes closed there is blackness experienced and there are also thoughts - varuois thoughts labeling and claiming all sort of things. But like in the exercise with the real and imaginary spoon - it is easy to see what is real and what is pure fiction - imagination.Honestly, the exercise is not easy because I also keep noticing what happening in the surrounding, even when I close my eyes, I keep hearing the sounds, sensations of the skins and touched things, and If I tried to concentrate I felt contractions, focusing on thoughts only cannot be done. I'm sorry, maybe I'll try again later a few times and get back again to report to you. Many thanks!
So there are thoughts and sensations about a me, but are they me, Reza?
Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?
Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?
Look many, many times whenever it is possible.
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
How are you?
You asked;
But when I see thoughts appear, (images and sounds) with some other thoughts, they creates a combined story, if believed as the reality, and with the arising of real sensations, will be felt as strong emotions, creating an illusion of a self in this life.
But if I just Look many many times, there is no me here.
I am only an imagination. Colorless, formless, soundless, not real.
Thank you Luchana, a little shift happens but there are still so much conditioning and old programming as recurring thoughts.
Regards,
Reza
How are you?
You asked;
No, a thought can't do anything they're just appearing out of nothing,Yep, the thought cannot guess, but what can a thought do?
But when I see thoughts appear, (images and sounds) with some other thoughts, they creates a combined story, if believed as the reality, and with the arising of real sensations, will be felt as strong emotions, creating an illusion of a self in this life.
A thought cannot think but the content of a thought could be a story of a thinker.Can a thought think?
There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.What about the thinker then?
The thoughts are arising without me doing something, if there is a producer of thoughts then it's not me, it's just like the automatic products, thoughts appear randomly in my observation.Who or what is producing them?
Nowhere in the real world, only as an imagination.Can an inherent thinker be locate?
The combination of thoughts and sensations felt as strong emotions, and seen as 'Reza' the "me" inside a body but really only in thoughts.So there are thoughts and sensations about a me, but are they me, Reza?
Reactions in thoughts and the actions of the body is not me, they should be MINE or I should be the one who HAVE this body that acts and mind that thinks, but in reality they're just happening without a doer or a thinker.Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?
The "me" or Reza is just a label, an image in a thought or some thoughts, visually and as an imagined sound not an actual entity in reality just a conceptual identity for the ease of communication and then believed as a real inherent self inside a body, a doer, a thinker.Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?
But if I just Look many many times, there is no me here.
I am only an imagination. Colorless, formless, soundless, not real.
Thank you Luchana, a little shift happens but there are still so much conditioning and old programming as recurring thoughts.
Regards,
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
I'm good :-) Trust all is well with you too.
Who or what be deluded by thought?
Can this one be found?
Can you say something more about this shift?
Can you point the exact moment of happening?
How did the shIt itself feel?
Very often the sfift could be very subbtle, for each one is different and no one can say in advance. But sometimes is easily dismissed because something else was expected to happen. So expand here that we both can look.
As for conditioning and old programming, the personality stays almost intact and all the conditioning will not dissapear once and for all with a magic stick. It is a life long process and will continue weeks, years or till the end of this living organism. All these will need furthur looking, but usually it is easear when the main belief in a separate entity,me has dropped.
Feelings and emotions will come up...and will flowing freely with nothing to stick to. All kings of sensations and you can see that there is nothing that is not welcome. Because freedom is not from, but with.
Sometimes it's enough just to notice emotion and it will fade away, sometimes you need to look more. There's a common misunderstanding when it comes to realizing "separate self does not exist" and it's the thing and we're done. But there is no end. No one is done :-) Seeing through the separate self is just a first step, just the beginning. There are many many more beliefs left that now waiting to be seen :-)
There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.
Now it’s important to look again and again in every situations, ordinary and usual and not so usual, hundreds of times… seeing it afresh again and again. It’s the repeated looking and seeing it afresh what undoes the belief.
Much love,
Luchana
How are you?
I'm good :-) Trust all is well with you too.
Very good observation.No, a thought can't do anything they're just appearing out of nothing,
But when I see thoughts appear, (images and sounds) with some other thoughts, they creates a combined story, if believed as the reality, and with the arising of real sensations, will be felt as strong emotions, creating an illusion of a self in this life.
A thought cannot think but the content of a thought could be a story of a thinker.
Do thought has some super power? Do be delusional?There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.
Who or what be deluded by thought?
Can this one be found?
Exellent looking. We are going to investigate some more here in doership and control.Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?Reactions in thoughts and the actions of the body is not me, they should be MINE or I should be the one who HAVE this body that acts and mind that thinks, but in reality they're just happening without a doer or a thinker.The "me" or Reza is just a label, an image in a thought or some thoughts, visually and as an imagined sound not an actual entity in reality just a conceptual identity for the ease of communication and then believed as a real inherent self inside a body, a doer, a thinker.
And how does it feel to see this?I am only an imagination. Colorless, formless, soundless, not real.
You are most welcome :-)Thank you Luchana, a little shift happens but there are still so much conditioning and old programming as recurring thoughts.
Can you say something more about this shift?
Can you point the exact moment of happening?
How did the shIt itself feel?
Very often the sfift could be very subbtle, for each one is different and no one can say in advance. But sometimes is easily dismissed because something else was expected to happen. So expand here that we both can look.
As for conditioning and old programming, the personality stays almost intact and all the conditioning will not dissapear once and for all with a magic stick. It is a life long process and will continue weeks, years or till the end of this living organism. All these will need furthur looking, but usually it is easear when the main belief in a separate entity,me has dropped.
Feelings and emotions will come up...and will flowing freely with nothing to stick to. All kings of sensations and you can see that there is nothing that is not welcome. Because freedom is not from, but with.
Sometimes it's enough just to notice emotion and it will fade away, sometimes you need to look more. There's a common misunderstanding when it comes to realizing "separate self does not exist" and it's the thing and we're done. But there is no end. No one is done :-) Seeing through the separate self is just a first step, just the beginning. There are many many more beliefs left that now waiting to be seen :-)
There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.
Now it’s important to look again and again in every situations, ordinary and usual and not so usual, hundreds of times… seeing it afresh again and again. It’s the repeated looking and seeing it afresh what undoes the belief.
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand but Can't See
No, a thought cannot do anything tangible in the real life.Do thought has some super power?There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.
Do you mean, a thought can be delusional?Do be delusional?
A thought is an illusion and if believed as real, then it's delusional.
I see; I thought that it was I who deluded by a thought :-)Who or what be deluded by thought?
But there is no "me" than who's the one that could be deluded?
I repeatedly look for this one, and stranger than fiction happened:Can this one be found?
Like seeing backward to find my self and there's nothing. Wow!
Felt like wearing a new eyeglasses,And how does it feel to see this?
Blurry feelings become more clearer..
But there is no feeling like wearing an eyeglasses,
All sensations just felt 'here' like colors, sounds, touches.
Like transparent, just feeling all the sensations in reality and;
This even felt like there is no head here ever!
Seeing so many stories and thoughts keep arising,Can you say something more about this shift?
But they're not real just appearing along with other five senses.
Lookings repeatedly confirm that the reality is never in thoughts.
When you asked how a mind can hear voices in the head,Can you point the exact moment of happening?
That's the first 'aha' moment, but then it was just another experience, like other experiences that come and gone..
But when I try to look again and again repeatedly;
Like 'seeing backward' to find anyone there,
Seeing there's no one there and never there,
Because the "I"-thoughts consist of stories and concepts,
I'm not real and never was in reality. Colorless, formless, lifeless.
Feeling funny but subtle.How did the shIt itself feel?
Like breathing fresh air, after long in a dark room.
And feeling the air just go through 'me' like the wind flows
without anything blocking the way, thia sensation felt not in the inside or the outside, just 'here' and is always, yes... So simple :-)
Thank you so much Luchana,
Looking forward to another exercises.
Seeing again and again are giving revelations!
Regards,
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
Or there is an excitement or sense of wonder?
Is there an expectation that this should change?
Just keep looking at the simplicity.
And now let's take a closer look at notion of control with a simple exercise.
In the morning when you woke up stay for a few minutes in the bed, than leave it.
Look thorough. Be very alert.
Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
Where does the "decision" to leave the bad come from?
Is there something giving the "command" to get up ?
Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
What makes the body get up?
Does a ‘you’ command the body?
Does a thought command the body?
During the day investigate also simple daily activities - like what to dress, what to eat, drink and so on. ..?
Is there a place where the commands come from?
Who ot what gives them?
Look for the point where the decision was made.
Is it possible to find such a point?
Can a source be found?
Dig deep.
And have fun :-)
Much love,
Luchana
Exactly!Who or what be deluded by thought?I see; I thought that it was I who deluded by a thought :-)
But there is no "me" than who's the one that could be deluded?
:-) Isn't it strange or scary?I repeatedly look for this one, and stranger than fiction happened:
Like seeing backward to find my self and there's nothing. Wow!
Or there is an excitement or sense of wonder?
Beautiful.And how does it feel to see this?Felt like wearing a new eyeglasses,
Blurry feelings become more clearer..
But there is no feeling like wearing an eyeglasses,
All sensations just felt 'here' like colors, sounds, touches.
Like transparent, just feeling all the sensations in reality and;
This even felt like there is no head here ever!
Thoughts will still arise and story will go on. Like it has always been.Seeing so many stories and thoughts keep arising,
But they're not real just appearing along with other five senses.
Lookings repeatedly confirm that the reality is never in thoughts.
Is there an expectation that this should change?
Such a beautiful insight.Can you point the exact moment of happening?When you asked how a mind can hear voices in the head,
That's the first 'aha' moment, but then it was just another experience, like other experiences that come and gone..
But when I try to look again and again repeatedly;
Like 'seeing backward' to find anyone there,
Seeing there's no one there and never there,
Because the "I"-thoughts consist of stories and concepts,
I'm not real and never was in reality. Colorless, formless, lifeless.
And I am smiling...Feeling funny but subtle.
Like breathing fresh air, after long in a dark room.
And feeling the air just go through 'me' like the wind flows
without anything blocking the way, thia sensation felt not in the inside or the outside, just 'here' and is always, yes... So simple :-)
Just keep looking at the simplicity.
And now let's take a closer look at notion of control with a simple exercise.
In the morning when you woke up stay for a few minutes in the bed, than leave it.
Look thorough. Be very alert.
Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
Where does the "decision" to leave the bad come from?
Is there something giving the "command" to get up ?
Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
What makes the body get up?
Does a ‘you’ command the body?
Does a thought command the body?
During the day investigate also simple daily activities - like what to dress, what to eat, drink and so on. ..?
Is there a place where the commands come from?
Who ot what gives them?
Look for the point where the decision was made.
Is it possible to find such a point?
Can a source be found?
Dig deep.
And have fun :-)
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
Thank you for the pointers!
Somehow this inquiry is not like finding answers again, there's nobody answering, felt like these questions are the pointers to just 'look' and invitations of experiencing sensations: being 'here' in the real world but even without questions the reality is still 'this'
But the fear, when looked with direct experience: is just some real sensations arising and thoughts about the future that are not real.
Being peaceful 'here' by just Look and I can see again 'this'
The Exercise:
There is a self in the form of a thought.
No one unchanging self in reality.
I cannot see an agent of life who can makes "decisions"
Life just happening, unfolding moments, arising sensations naturally, without any unnatural outside force of oneself.
Does a thought command the body?
Thought arising as stories of commanding, judging, labeling, etc.
But when in looking, there are only viewing changing color, form, shape, hearing sounds, sensations. And the scenes change.
They (simple daily activities) are like living in a movie or dream but without a director or a decider to influence the scenes.
Is there a place where the commands come from?
Hahaha (But, really, where is my head? :-)
Maybe the atoms, habits, a God, but these are just thoughts!
When looking, I'm sure there is no one separate from 'this' who gives commands outside the flow of happenings in reality.
I can't see no such thing now, I'll dig deeper later & report to you.
Or not! Hahaha 🤪 😁
So much fun here, thanks for this
Reza
Thank you for the pointers!
Somehow this inquiry is not like finding answers again, there's nobody answering, felt like these questions are the pointers to just 'look' and invitations of experiencing sensations: being 'here' in the real world but even without questions the reality is still 'this'
So many thoughts arising, telling stories about 'me' who's anxiousIsn't it strange or scary?
But the fear, when looked with direct experience: is just some real sensations arising and thoughts about the future that are not real.
Once there was excitement and wonderful feeling, fleeting and then subsided, now there's memories that are not real, just in thoughts, life back to normal, ordinary, regular, daily activities but I'm not as often felt anger or fear, more relaxed.Or there is an excitement or sense of wonder?
Being peaceful 'here' by just Look and I can see again 'this'
No, like written above.. Nothing change but the view 'broaden'Is there an expectation that this should change?
The Exercise:
No, there is no one that can be seen as a self anywhere.Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
There is a self in the form of a thought.
No one unchanging self in reality.
Left the bed just happened, then thoughts arising with the story of deciding, but this 'body' just leave the bed without any decider.Where does the "decision" to leave the bed come from?
I cannot see an agent of life who can makes "decisions"
Like I said before, there is no agent of life, one unchanging self, a core somewhere in this body or an entity to command something.Is there something giving the "command" to get up ?
Life just happening, unfolding moments, arising sensations naturally, without any unnatural outside force of oneself.
There is no controller anywhere excepts in thoughts, a story about a controller, I see. But when looking there are waves of life, like a 3D immersive movie not a video game with a controller.Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
I don't know. Maybe I'll do the exercise more and see what makes.What makes the body get up?
There's only a thought about commanding the body but I see that thoughts cannot do anything, only appearing and then disappear.Does a ‘you’ command the body?
Does a thought command the body?
No, the body just moves like leaves in the trees, birds, winds, etc.
Thought arising as stories of commanding, judging, labeling, etc.
But when in looking, there are only viewing changing color, form, shape, hearing sounds, sensations. And the scenes change.
OK, I'll investigate repeatedly...During the day investigate also simple daily activities - like what to dress, what to eat, drink and so on. ..?
They (simple daily activities) are like living in a movie or dream but without a director or a decider to influence the scenes.
Is there a place where the commands come from?
No, nowhere in this body or inside the head, there is no head!
Hahaha (But, really, where is my head? :-)
Who or what gives what? Commands?Who or what gives them?
Maybe the atoms, habits, a God, but these are just thoughts!
When looking, I'm sure there is no one separate from 'this' who gives commands outside the flow of happenings in reality.
There is no such 'point' in my direct experience of everyday living.Look for the point where the decision was made.
No. And I just said that in the previous answer without reading this question. I answered your next question before this. Funny :-)Is it possible to find such a point?
What source? Source of decisions, the real director for commanding the changes of scenes in this life-movie?Can a source be found?
I can't see no such thing now, I'll dig deeper later & report to you.
Or not! Hahaha 🤪 😁
So much fun here, thanks for this
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
Yes, relaxation can appear, this happen quite often, all the system relaxes.
And yes - it is so ordinary and simple.
Look - is there someone being peaceful or there is peacefulness?
And such a lovely investigation with the exercese.
Let's make another one, it's so much fun really :-)
Take two glases with different beverages (milk and water, or juise and coke, or coffe and tea). It could be also something else..
Put these glasses in front of you. Close your eyes for a min and than look at glasses and choose one.
If a thought arrise "I prefer milk instea tea" - look:
Did you choose this preference?
As you do this notice whether a 'self' does it. Also notice if there are many or any moments in the whole procedure of taking glasses, puting something in them (etc) when 'you' control the process?
How the decision is made which glass to choose?
Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
Do ‘you’ choose?
Can a chooser be located?
Much love,
Luchana
You are most welcome :-) Yes, this inquiry has nothing to do with learning and finding answers. All that is needed is just to look at experience which you are doing really great.Thank you for the pointers!
Somehow this inquiry is not like finding answers again, there's nobody answering, felt like these questions are the pointers to just 'look' and invitations of experiencing sensations: being 'here' in the real world but even without questions the reality is still 'this'
Exactly. If fear or resistance arise during the investigation - just share so we can look at it closer.But the fear, when looked with direct experience: is just some real sensations arising and thoughts about the future that are not real.
Yes, all sort of feelings can arise and they are welcome to arise.Once there was excitement and wonderful feeling, fleeting and then subsided, now there's memories that are not real, just in thoughts, life back to normal, ordinary, regular, daily activities but I'm not as often felt anger or fear, more relaxed.
Being peaceful 'here' by just Look and I can see again 'this'
Yes, relaxation can appear, this happen quite often, all the system relaxes.
And yes - it is so ordinary and simple.
Look - is there someone being peaceful or there is peacefulness?
And such a lovely investigation with the exercese.
Let's make another one, it's so much fun really :-)
Take two glases with different beverages (milk and water, or juise and coke, or coffe and tea). It could be also something else..
Put these glasses in front of you. Close your eyes for a min and than look at glasses and choose one.
If a thought arrise "I prefer milk instea tea" - look:
Did you choose this preference?
As you do this notice whether a 'self' does it. Also notice if there are many or any moments in the whole procedure of taking glasses, puting something in them (etc) when 'you' control the process?
How the decision is made which glass to choose?
Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
Do ‘you’ choose?
Can a chooser be located?
LOL. We will look at the notion of the body later. :-)No, nowhere in this body or inside the head, there is no head!
Hahaha (But, really, where is my head? :-)
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
Thank you for giving your attention and your time.
I know you're very busy now, I saw you live on YouTube.
Nevertheless, this is just my thought and I'm happy to see you.
I don't know if the 'peacefulness' is the right word again.
Words are all label from the mind that are thoughts,
When I 'LOOK' here, there is 'this' oneness of sensations.
But the five sensations are more dominant than thoughts.
In the direct experience, there's no one with a free will to choose.
Choosing just happens without an independent chooser.
The process is flowing without any disruption from a controller.
The thoughts of an entity, an independent agent is there.
But it's only a story, an ego that choose and have free will.
This ego is fictious not real, in reality all which happens - flows.
And moments aren't like separate things brought together in a thread of time, there is no time experienced in my senses.
There's no time also, only thoughts labeling past, present, future.
Anytime I see are all automatically happening, without an 'I' like nature, animals, trees; all forms and colors are dancing without a dancer. Funny, they're all empty. I see nothingness as things.
Like ghost towns, all I see is like a haunted world, but no fear.
Thanks!
Regards,
Reza
Thank you for giving your attention and your time.
I know you're very busy now, I saw you live on YouTube.
Nevertheless, this is just my thought and I'm happy to see you.
Look: I'm seeing colors and hearing sounds, also aware of the silent between sounds, space in the visual field, feeling warm sensations, smelling something, all there is this experience of life.Look - is there someone being peaceful or there is peacefulness?
I don't know if the 'peacefulness' is the right word again.
Words are all label from the mind that are thoughts,
When I 'LOOK' here, there is 'this' oneness of sensations.
No, the thoughts just arising; telling story about choosing and another thought with blurry image of the preferred drink.Did you choose this preference?
But the five sensations are more dominant than thoughts.
In the direct experience, there's no one with a free will to choose.
Choosing just happens without an independent chooser.
I see no controller or point of command to disrupt the flow.When 'you' control the process?
The process is flowing without any disruption from a controller.
Decision occurs, without a decider while life unfolding.How the decision is made which glass to choose?
The thoughts of an entity, an independent agent is there.
But it's only a story, an ego that choose and have free will.
This ego is fictious not real, in reality all which happens - flows.
When I try to look moments, it just a thoughts of the flow of time.Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
And moments aren't like separate things brought together in a thread of time, there is no time experienced in my senses.
No 'me' as separate entity or independent agent outside life.Do ‘you’ choose?
There's no time also, only thoughts labeling past, present, future.
Anytime I see are all automatically happening, without an 'I' like nature, animals, trees; all forms and colors are dancing without a dancer. Funny, they're all empty. I see nothingness as things.
Like ghost towns, all I see is like a haunted world, but no fear.
Nowhere to be found. Everywhere I looked, tried to hear or feeling something, there were sensations and thoughts arising but they are not me, where is this "I, me, mine" as a choser? Nowhere! 🙂Can a chooser be located?
Thanks!
Regards,
Reza
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
I want to update you something if that's okay?
I think there is resistance here, no progress.
But I think again if this thoughts were true?
Honestly, all your questions I could write with good answers.
But, I think that just from my intellectual understanding.
Even if I wrote it just after I practiced the exercises.
I still do the exercises daily and repeatedly.
But somehow, I still cannot see clearly.
That there is no a separate self here.
I'm still feeling upset with my manager this morning,
And I also still got angry with my wife last night.
Sadness of having an autistic son, hatred, etc.
All these emotions, thought-stories and sensations...
Or maybe I just have unrealistic expectations too?
What should I do, where do I look, please tell me.
Thank you!
Regards,
Reza
I want to update you something if that's okay?
I think there is resistance here, no progress.
But I think again if this thoughts were true?
Honestly, all your questions I could write with good answers.
But, I think that just from my intellectual understanding.
Even if I wrote it just after I practiced the exercises.
I still do the exercises daily and repeatedly.
But somehow, I still cannot see clearly.
That there is no a separate self here.
I'm still feeling upset with my manager this morning,
And I also still got angry with my wife last night.
Sadness of having an autistic son, hatred, etc.
All these emotions, thought-stories and sensations...
Or maybe I just have unrealistic expectations too?
What should I do, where do I look, please tell me.
Thank you!
Regards,
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
Тhank you for your replies! I appreciate the honesty and vulnerability been expressed.
I'm going to look the second one, cause I see something which need attention there. Hope that's fine.
I'm happy that you resonate with some of nothing.fm videos, there are wonderful guidelines is some of them.
I'll be glad if we meet next time :-)
A resistance can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, resistance is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job very well. It is protecting something from being find out. Now, let's take a closer look.
Sit fow a while (10-15 min) somewhere and relax.
Look at the resistance and just let it be here.
Find where in the body is being felt, bring it closer. It's fine to just let it be. It's ok for resistance to be here.
Can you say something more about it?
What is this resistance about?
Is it protecting something?
What would might happen if you not resist?
Examine closely, no rush. Just gentle curiosity.
Seeing that there is no one here controling thoughts and sensations is one thing - yes, the main belief fails. But there are many other beliefs and they will gradually failing apart. This is just the begining, just the first step, sensations will continue arising and thoughts will continue claiming this and that. The show must and will go on :-) But when an emotion pop up and trigger surtain feeling it is not because the self is back. All the conditioning is not going to fail down in an instant, just like it does not build in a day :-)
There is ALREADY no-self, there is ALREADY worries and feeling could stick too, and yet worries and feelings appear.
So why would this change if the self illusion is seen for what it is?
Stick already doesn't happen, it's just SEEMS that way. But just because the self is seen for to be an illusion, it doesn't mean that it will stop appearing. The self-illusion will go on, just as the seeming stickiness of emotions. There are just floating freely with nothing to stick to.
And the personality stays almost completely intact.
An emotional pain and trauma won't disappear with the magic stick just because the self is seen to be an illusion. Some may stay weeks, months. years, a lifetime. All these will need further looking, but what I can share is that is often easier to deal with those once when the main beliefe has dropped. Freedom is not from, but with. All the spectrum of emotions is free to appear, without belonging to anyone or anything.
Can you look - Is there a hidden expectation that suffering, triggers, so called negative emotions will stop?
Much love,
Luchana
Тhank you for your replies! I appreciate the honesty and vulnerability been expressed.
I'm going to look the second one, cause I see something which need attention there. Hope that's fine.
Oh, it is such a joy and out of efford, so you don't have to worry at all :-)Thank you for giving your attention and your time.
I know you're very busy now, I saw you live on YouTube.
Nevertheless, this is just my thought and I'm happy to see you.
I'm happy that you resonate with some of nothing.fm videos, there are wonderful guidelines is some of them.
I'll be glad if we meet next time :-)
Thank you for sharing this with me. And I understand how you feel, really. That resistance is completely fine and it is very common. It's happen often and it's part of the process. Just trust (the process), it has already started.I want to update you something if that's okay?
I think there is resistance here, no progress.
But I think again if this thoughts were true?
A resistance can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, resistance is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job very well. It is protecting something from being find out. Now, let's take a closer look.
Sit fow a while (10-15 min) somewhere and relax.
Look at the resistance and just let it be here.
Find where in the body is being felt, bring it closer. It's fine to just let it be. It's ok for resistance to be here.
Can you say something more about it?
What is this resistance about?
Is it protecting something?
What would might happen if you not resist?
Examine closely, no rush. Just gentle curiosity.
All is OK All this is normal. It is part of experience to be human. The buffet is widely open for each emotion, but it just not we that choose.I'm still feeling upset with my manager this morning,
And I also still got angry with my wife last night.
Sadness of having an autistic son, hatred, etc.
All these emotions, thought-stories and sensations...
Or maybe I just have unrealistic expectations too?
What should I do, where do I look, please tell me.
Seeing that there is no one here controling thoughts and sensations is one thing - yes, the main belief fails. But there are many other beliefs and they will gradually failing apart. This is just the begining, just the first step, sensations will continue arising and thoughts will continue claiming this and that. The show must and will go on :-) But when an emotion pop up and trigger surtain feeling it is not because the self is back. All the conditioning is not going to fail down in an instant, just like it does not build in a day :-)
There is ALREADY no-self, there is ALREADY worries and feeling could stick too, and yet worries and feelings appear.
So why would this change if the self illusion is seen for what it is?
Stick already doesn't happen, it's just SEEMS that way. But just because the self is seen for to be an illusion, it doesn't mean that it will stop appearing. The self-illusion will go on, just as the seeming stickiness of emotions. There are just floating freely with nothing to stick to.
And the personality stays almost completely intact.
An emotional pain and trauma won't disappear with the magic stick just because the self is seen to be an illusion. Some may stay weeks, months. years, a lifetime. All these will need further looking, but what I can share is that is often easier to deal with those once when the main beliefe has dropped. Freedom is not from, but with. All the spectrum of emotions is free to appear, without belonging to anyone or anything.
Can you look - Is there a hidden expectation that suffering, triggers, so called negative emotions will stop?
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
TODAY I got a very terrible headache and went to see a doctor.
She said I have hypertension 190/140 and after taking the drugs,
This afternoon my tension is still high 160/90 and still dizzy.
Maybe I need sometime to rest and to be able to reply with
A more deeply looking and answering your questions properly.
But is this a resistance too? I should look all the sensations now.
Can a belief or a thought triggers sensations like somewhere in the heart/chest area?
Whereas when I LOOK, there is no head and when I touch something like in my bed, there is nobody felt just a sensation without borders or differing between bed and a body.
When I see my hand on a table, there’s one view with different colors but no direct information about a hand and a table from the experience just two colors and forms/shapes, so there is nobody, no head, no hand.
Yet, some sensations in the chest and head arising felt (triggering) a thought as a belief to resist this new paradigm/perspective to replace the old beliefs.
But maybe, they’re all just thoughts and belief which are not true, so if I’m not resisting, peacefulness will presents with my total acceptance? I don’t know, I still don’t believe that.
So, I need more time to look, again and again, repeatedly...
So this is maybe the hidden expectations: to end my suffering and vanish all the triggers, negative emotions, to unveil the truth
I don’t know, I’m feeling under the weather.
I’ll write again, if I’m feeling better/healthy again.
Thank you so much Luchana for your kindness and time.
With love;
Reza
TODAY I got a very terrible headache and went to see a doctor.
She said I have hypertension 190/140 and after taking the drugs,
This afternoon my tension is still high 160/90 and still dizzy.
Maybe I need sometime to rest and to be able to reply with
A more deeply looking and answering your questions properly.
But is this a resistance too? I should look all the sensations now.
It’s a belief, a thought about thoughts that this seeking needs more closure, and not trusting the process because another belief about feeling stuck, a dead end.Can you say something more about it?
Can a belief or a thought triggers sensations like somewhere in the heart/chest area?
About insecurity, feeling out of control, and the contraction felt in the chest and head area.What is this resistance about?
Whereas when I LOOK, there is no head and when I touch something like in my bed, there is nobody felt just a sensation without borders or differing between bed and a body.
When I see my hand on a table, there’s one view with different colors but no direct information about a hand and a table from the experience just two colors and forms/shapes, so there is nobody, no head, no hand.
Yet, some sensations in the chest and head arising felt (triggering) a thought as a belief to resist this new paradigm/perspective to replace the old beliefs.
Protecting old beliefs and comfort zone of some old programmings (belief, habits, ego as a separate self)Is it protecting something?
I don’t know, maybe some hidden fear that I’m afraid I’m falling without a bottom, so if I’m not resisting I will fall or I’m afraid that I will see me and other people as zombies, bodies without a soul, empty vessels, a hollow universe, scary place made of void.What would might happen if you not resist?
But maybe, they’re all just thoughts and belief which are not true, so if I’m not resisting, peacefulness will presents with my total acceptance? I don’t know, I still don’t believe that.
So, I need more time to look, again and again, repeatedly...
Yes, I have read Bahiya Sutta (exercises when seeing there’s only seen, when hearing there’s only the heard, etc.) and The Buddha said in the end of the story that this is the end of suffering.Can you look - Is there a hidden expectation that suffering, triggers, so called negative emotions will stop?
So this is maybe the hidden expectations: to end my suffering and vanish all the triggers, negative emotions, to unveil the truth
I don’t know, I’m feeling under the weather.
I’ll write again, if I’m feeling better/healthy again.
Thank you so much Luchana for your kindness and time.
With love;
Reza
Re: Undertand but Can't See
Hi Reza,
Yes, it could be a resistance showing up as an intense headache. Тhe Empire Strikes Back :-) Resistance shows up as boredoms, something more important to do and various sensations in the body. In my experience it was in a form of postponing and a unusual drowsiness during the day. Again - all good, nothing scary. The good news is that you are on the right track and that's why resistance is here. This means that your intence and vigilant looking at the questions exposes the falsity of some beliefes.
Take a rest, relax and just let these emotions and sensations to be here. Nothing wrong with any of it.
And yes - there is no bottom...but there is no one to fall either. There is just free falling.
As about the end of suffering - we all do read it the way we want it for us. The self always imagine what it wants for itself. But the end of suffering is to see the insignificant of each tought and the added narative to each experience.
A thought appear - truggers sertain sensation-and story starts-another thought-more triggers...
This is suffering. Seeing that there is no one inloved in this is the end of suffering.
What I would suggest now is one day or two or even more to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Reza am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is present and answer these questions:
Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
Does the character choose this story?
Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?
Can the story of Reza be seen as what it is - just a story, including Reza?
Much love,
Luchana
I am sorry to read this, really hope that you are feeling better now.TODAY I got a very terrible headache and went to see a doctor.
She said I have hypertension 190/140 and after taking the drugs,
This afternoon my tension is still high 160/90 and still dizzy.
Maybe I need sometime to rest and to be able to reply with
A more deeply looking and answering your questions properly.
But is this a resistance too? I should look all the sensations now.
Yes, it could be a resistance showing up as an intense headache. Тhe Empire Strikes Back :-) Resistance shows up as boredoms, something more important to do and various sensations in the body. In my experience it was in a form of postponing and a unusual drowsiness during the day. Again - all good, nothing scary. The good news is that you are on the right track and that's why resistance is here. This means that your intence and vigilant looking at the questions exposes the falsity of some beliefes.
Take a rest, relax and just let these emotions and sensations to be here. Nothing wrong with any of it.
It’s a belief, a thought about thoughts that this seeking needs more closure, and not trusting the process because another belief about feeling stuck, a dead end.
Can a belief or a thought triggers sensations like somewhere in the heart/chest area?
We will take a closer look here later, when the resistance calms down.About insecurity, feeling out of control, and the contraction felt in the chest and head area.
This is nothing more than a belief which was picked somewhere on the road. We all do this. I was scared to death that I'm going mad and wount be able to take care of my loved ones... Nothing from these of course happend. It was just a belief, unquestioned belief. In some paradoxical way caring happens without no one involved in it.I don’t know, maybe some hidden fear that I’m afraid I’m falling without a bottom, so if I’m not resisting I will fall or I’m afraid that I will see me and other people as zombies, bodies without a soul, empty vessels, a hollow universe, scary place made of void.
And yes - there is no bottom...but there is no one to fall either. There is just free falling.
It is so good that you can see the expectations here. And so beautiful is Bahia Sutta! (I'm not familiar with any other Buddha's suttas, but this one is just so true)Yes, I have read Bahiya Sutta (exercises when seeing there’s only seen, when hearing there’s only the heard, etc.) and The Buddha said in the end of the story that this is the end of suffering.
So this is maybe the hidden expectations: to end my suffering and vanish all the triggers, negative emotions, to unveil the truth
As about the end of suffering - we all do read it the way we want it for us. The self always imagine what it wants for itself. But the end of suffering is to see the insignificant of each tought and the added narative to each experience.
A thought appear - truggers sertain sensation-and story starts-another thought-more triggers...
This is suffering. Seeing that there is no one inloved in this is the end of suffering.
What I would suggest now is one day or two or even more to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Reza am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is present and answer these questions:
Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?
Does the character choose this story?
Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?
Can the story of Reza be seen as what it is - just a story, including Reza?
Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
- IndonesianLU
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:33 pm
Re: Understand but Can't See
Hi Luchana,
I don't want to lose momentum, I still have intens willfulness,
Determined very hard to unleash the liberation, realizing 'this'
Yet, it was felt so paradoxical that we still using the dual language and dualistic approach, ie. By doing some efforts in the inquiry.
You're right, I need a day or two to do your suggestion,
Maybe if I'm feeling better and could go outside again, I'll do the inquiry while walking and sitting, observing all the appearances.
In the mean time, I hope the resistance shall calm down,
And I'm adjusting the expectation by looking more deeply,
Also the hidden fear and distractions to do other menial stuff.
With love,
Reza
Yes, can't hardly wait!We will take a closer look here later, when the resistance calms down.
I don't want to lose momentum, I still have intens willfulness,
Determined very hard to unleash the liberation, realizing 'this'
Yet, it was felt so paradoxical that we still using the dual language and dualistic approach, ie. By doing some efforts in the inquiry.
You're right, I need a day or two to do your suggestion,
Maybe if I'm feeling better and could go outside again, I'll do the inquiry while walking and sitting, observing all the appearances.
In the mean time, I hope the resistance shall calm down,
And I'm adjusting the expectation by looking more deeply,
Also the hidden fear and distractions to do other menial stuff.
With love,
Reza
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