Undertand but Can't See

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:37 pm

Thank you for your kindness Luchana,
Oh, you are most welcome :-)
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand and but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:10 am

Hi Luchana,
When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?
No, and I can't even know when the first comes and the last thought like the tenth? I lost count, they're all so fuzzy.
Did you know the order when you start doing this?
No, like I said they're all not clearly seen like when the eyes see things, thoughts are blurry and random, hazy and obscure.
Did you arrange the thoughts in that particular order exactly?
Nothing arrange the thoughts, and no well-defined boundaries seen between thoughts, and even the order of appearance cannot known, so there's no exact particular order.
Do you know which thought will be next before it appears?
No. At first I thought I can guess, but it just another thought! Hahaha - :) Nobody know that the next thought is another thought trying to guess, but thought cannot guess, it's just the content and it's fictious. It's only an arising thought after another.
Can you follow a thought to its destination?
Me trying to follow a thought is just another thought too, a Thought with a story of following another thought :-)
I don't know where the previous thought went. It's just disappear.
Can you trace a thought back from where it has come?
No, and the funny thing is I thought if I can just trace back like remembering the thoughts in reverse order, but then I realized it's just another content of a thought. And the place where the thoughts first came cannot be seen, they're just popping & noticed, thoughts come and go.

Honestly, the exercise is not easy because I also keep noticing what happening in the surrounding, even when I close my eyes, I keep hearing the sounds, sensations of the skins and touched things, and If I tried to concentrate I felt contractions, focusing on thoughts only cannot be done. I'm sorry, maybe I'll try again later a few times and get back again to report to you. Many thanks!

Regards,
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:39 pm

Hi Reza,
When the first thought came, do you know what will be the last one?
No, and I can't even know when the first comes and the last thought like the tenth? I lost count, they're all so fuzzy.
Did you know the order when you start doing this?
No, like I said they're all not clearly seen like when the eyes see things, thoughts are blurry and random, hazy and obscure.

You did another very good looking.
No. At first I thought I can guess, but it just another thought! Hahaha - :) Nobody know that the next thought is another thought trying to guess, but thought cannot guess, it's just the content and it's fictious. It's only an arising thought after another.
And I'm smiling too :-)
Yep, the thought cannot guess, but what can a thought do?
Can a thought think?

Can you follow a thought to its destination?
Me trying to follow a thought is just another thought too, a Thought with a story of following another thought :-)
I don't know where the previous thought went. It's just disappear.
Can you trace a thought back from where it has come?
No, and the funny thing is I thought if I can just trace back like remembering the thoughts in reverse order, but then I realized it's just another content of a thought. And the place where the thoughts first came cannot be seen, they're just popping & noticed, thoughts come and go.
Nice. Thoughts pops up out of nowhere, hang on for a while and disappear nowhere.
They are here and this experience cannot be denied.
What about the thinker then?
Who or what is producing them?
Can an inherent thinker be locate?

Honestly, the exercise is not easy because I also keep noticing what happening in the surrounding, even when I close my eyes, I keep hearing the sounds, sensations of the skins and touched things, and If I tried to concentrate I felt contractions, focusing on thoughts only cannot be done. I'm sorry, maybe I'll try again later a few times and get back again to report to you. Many thanks!
You are doing really great. No need to concentrate hard, just notice how everything is simply experienced - there are sounds, smells. sensations, even with the eyes closed there is blackness experienced and there are also thoughts - varuois thoughts labeling and claiming all sort of things. But like in the exercise with the real and imaginary spoon - it is easy to see what is real and what is pure fiction - imagination.

So there are thoughts and sensations about a me, but are they me, Reza?
Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?

Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?


Look many, many times whenever it is possible.

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:45 am

Hi Luchana,
How are you?

You asked;
Yep, the thought cannot guess, but what can a thought do?
No, a thought can't do anything they're just appearing out of nothing,
But when I see thoughts appear, (images and sounds) with some other thoughts, they creates a combined story, if believed as the reality, and with the arising of real sensations, will be felt as strong emotions, creating an illusion of a self in this life.

Can a thought think?
A thought cannot think but the content of a thought could be a story of a thinker.

What about the thinker then?
There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.

Who or what is producing them?
The thoughts are arising without me doing something, if there is a producer of thoughts then it's not me, it's just like the automatic products, thoughts appear randomly in my observation.

Can an inherent thinker be locate?
Nowhere in the real world, only as an imagination.

So there are thoughts and sensations about a me, but are they me, Reza?
The combination of thoughts and sensations felt as strong emotions, and seen as 'Reza' the "me" inside a body but really only in thoughts.

Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?
Reactions in thoughts and the actions of the body is not me, they should be MINE or I should be the one who HAVE this body that acts and mind that thinks, but in reality they're just happening without a doer or a thinker.

Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?
The "me" or Reza is just a label, an image in a thought or some thoughts, visually and as an imagined sound not an actual entity in reality just a conceptual identity for the ease of communication and then believed as a real inherent self inside a body, a doer, a thinker.

But if I just Look many many times, there is no me here.

I am only an imagination. Colorless, formless, soundless, not real.

Thank you Luchana, a little shift happens but there are still so much conditioning and old programming as recurring thoughts.

Regards,
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:22 am

Hi Reza,
How are you?

I'm good :-) Trust all is well with you too.
No, a thought can't do anything they're just appearing out of nothing,
But when I see thoughts appear, (images and sounds) with some other thoughts, they creates a combined story, if believed as the reality, and with the arising of real sensations, will be felt as strong emotions, creating an illusion of a self in this life.
Very good observation.
A thought cannot think but the content of a thought could be a story of a thinker.
There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.
Do thought has some super power? Do be delusional?
Who or what be deluded by thought?
Can this one be found?

Are these reactions in the body or thoughts by themselves me, Reza?
Reactions in thoughts and the actions of the body is not me, they should be MINE or I should be the one who HAVE this body that acts and mind that thinks, but in reality they're just happening without a doer or a thinker.
Is "me" an image/thought or is it an ACTUAL entity?
The "me" or Reza is just a label, an image in a thought or some thoughts, visually and as an imagined sound not an actual entity in reality just a conceptual identity for the ease of communication and then believed as a real inherent self inside a body, a doer, a thinker.
Exellent looking. We are going to investigate some more here in doership and control.
I am only an imagination. Colorless, formless, soundless, not real.
And how does it feel to see this?

Thank you Luchana, a little shift happens but there are still so much conditioning and old programming as recurring thoughts.
You are most welcome :-)

Can you say something more about this shift?
Can you point the exact moment of happening?
How did the shIt itself feel
?

Very often the sfift could be very subbtle, for each one is different and no one can say in advance. But sometimes is easily dismissed because something else was expected to happen. So expand here that we both can look.

As for conditioning and old programming, the personality stays almost intact and all the conditioning will not dissapear once and for all with a magic stick. It is a life long process and will continue weeks, years or till the end of this living organism. All these will need furthur looking, but usually it is easear when the main belief in a separate entity,me has dropped.

Feelings and emotions will come up...and will flowing freely with nothing to stick to. All kings of sensations and you can see that there is nothing that is not welcome. Because freedom is not from, but with.
Sometimes it's enough just to notice emotion and it will fade away, sometimes you need to look more. There's a common misunderstanding when it comes to realizing "separate self does not exist" and it's the thing and we're done. But there is no end. No one is done :-) Seeing through the separate self is just a first step, just the beginning. There are many many more beliefs left that now waiting to be seen :-)

There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.

Now it’s important to look again and again in every situations, ordinary and usual and not so usual, hundreds of times… seeing it afresh again and again. It’s the repeated looking and seeing it afresh what undoes the belief.

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:04 pm

There is no thinker except in the story of a thought or in the content in some thoughts. They are delusional, making a "me" that believed as a thinker.
Do thought has some super power?
No, a thought cannot do anything tangible in the real life.

Do be delusional?
Do you mean, a thought can be delusional?
A thought is an illusion and if believed as real, then it's delusional.

Who or what be deluded by thought?
I see; I thought that it was I who deluded by a thought :-)
But there is no "me" than who's the one that could be deluded?

Can this one be found?
I repeatedly look for this one, and stranger than fiction happened:
Like seeing backward to find my self and there's nothing. Wow!

And how does it feel to see this?
Felt like wearing a new eyeglasses,
Blurry feelings become more clearer..
But there is no feeling like wearing an eyeglasses,
All sensations just felt 'here' like colors, sounds, touches.
Like transparent, just feeling all the sensations in reality and;

This even felt like there is no head here ever!

Can you say something more about this shift?
Seeing so many stories and thoughts keep arising,
But they're not real just appearing along with other five senses.

Lookings repeatedly confirm that the reality is never in thoughts.

Can you point the exact moment of happening?
When you asked how a mind can hear voices in the head,
That's the first 'aha' moment, but then it was just another experience, like other experiences that come and gone..

But when I try to look again and again repeatedly;

Like 'seeing backward' to find anyone there,
Seeing there's no one there and never there,
Because the "I"-thoughts consist of stories and concepts,
I'm not real and never was in reality. Colorless, formless, lifeless.

How did the shIt itself feel?
Feeling funny but subtle.
Like breathing fresh air, after long in a dark room.
And feeling the air just go through 'me' like the wind flows
without anything blocking the way, thia sensation felt not in the inside or the outside, just 'here' and is always, yes... So simple :-)

Thank you so much Luchana,
Looking forward to another exercises.
Seeing again and again are giving revelations!

Regards,
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:34 am

Hi Reza,
Who or what be deluded by thought?
I see; I thought that it was I who deluded by a thought :-)
But there is no "me" than who's the one that could be deluded?
Exactly!
I repeatedly look for this one, and stranger than fiction happened:
Like seeing backward to find my self and there's nothing. Wow!
:-) Isn't it strange or scary?
Or there is an excitement or sense of wonder?

And how does it feel to see this?
Felt like wearing a new eyeglasses,
Blurry feelings become more clearer..
But there is no feeling like wearing an eyeglasses,
All sensations just felt 'here' like colors, sounds, touches.
Like transparent, just feeling all the sensations in reality and;

This even felt like there is no head here ever!
Beautiful.
Seeing so many stories and thoughts keep arising,
But they're not real just appearing along with other five senses.

Lookings repeatedly confirm that the reality is never in thoughts.
Thoughts will still arise and story will go on. Like it has always been.
Is there an expectation that this should change?

Can you point the exact moment of happening?
When you asked how a mind can hear voices in the head,
That's the first 'aha' moment, but then it was just another experience, like other experiences that come and gone..

But when I try to look again and again repeatedly;

Like 'seeing backward' to find anyone there,
Seeing there's no one there and never there,
Because the "I"-thoughts consist of stories and concepts,
I'm not real and never was in reality. Colorless, formless, lifeless.
Such a beautiful insight.
Feeling funny but subtle.
Like breathing fresh air, after long in a dark room.
And feeling the air just go through 'me' like the wind flows
without anything blocking the way, thia sensation felt not in the inside or the outside, just 'here' and is always, yes... So simple :-)
And I am smiling...
Just keep looking at the simplicity.

And now let's take a closer look at notion of control with a simple exercise.

In the morning when you woke up stay for a few minutes in the bed, than leave it.

Look thorough. Be very alert.

Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
Where does the "decision" to leave the bad come from?
Is there something giving the "command" to get up ?
Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
What makes the body get up?
Does a ‘you’ command the body?
Does a thought command the body?

During the day investigate also simple daily activities - like what to dress, what to eat, drink and so on. ..?

Is there a place where the commands come from?
Who ot what gives them?
Look for the point where the decision was made.
Is it possible to find such a point?
Can a source be found?

Dig deep.
And have fun :-)


Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:52 am

Hi Luchana,
Thank you for the pointers!
Somehow this inquiry is not like finding answers again, there's nobody answering, felt like these questions are the pointers to just 'look' and invitations of experiencing sensations: being 'here' in the real world but even without questions the reality is still 'this'

Isn't it strange or scary?
So many thoughts arising, telling stories about 'me' who's anxious

But the fear, when looked with direct experience: is just some real sensations arising and thoughts about the future that are not real.

Or there is an excitement or sense of wonder?
Once there was excitement and wonderful feeling, fleeting and then subsided, now there's memories that are not real, just in thoughts, life back to normal, ordinary, regular, daily activities but I'm not as often felt anger or fear, more relaxed.
Being peaceful 'here' by just Look and I can see again 'this'

Is there an expectation that this should change?
No, like written above.. Nothing change but the view 'broaden'

The Exercise:
Can you see a self making you leave the bed?
No, there is no one that can be seen as a self anywhere.
There is a self in the form of a thought.
No one unchanging self in reality.

Where does the "decision" to leave the bed come from?
Left the bed just happened, then thoughts arising with the story of deciding, but this 'body' just leave the bed without any decider.
I cannot see an agent of life who can makes "decisions"

Is there something giving the "command" to get up ?
Like I said before, there is no agent of life, one unchanging self, a core somewhere in this body or an entity to command something.
Life just happening, unfolding moments, arising sensations naturally, without any unnatural outside force of oneself.

Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
There is no controller anywhere excepts in thoughts, a story about a controller, I see. But when looking there are waves of life, like a 3D immersive movie not a video game with a controller.


What makes the body get up?
I don't know. Maybe I'll do the exercise more and see what makes.

Does a ‘you’ command the body?
There's only a thought about commanding the body but I see that thoughts cannot do anything, only appearing and then disappear.


Does a thought command the body?
No, the body just moves like leaves in the trees, birds, winds, etc.
Thought arising as stories of commanding, judging, labeling, etc.
But when in looking, there are only viewing changing color, form, shape, hearing sounds, sensations. And the scenes change.

During the day investigate also simple daily activities - like what to dress, what to eat, drink and so on. ..?
OK, I'll investigate repeatedly...
They (simple daily activities) are like living in a movie or dream but without a director or a decider to influence the scenes.


Is there a place where the commands come from?
No, nowhere in this body or inside the head, there is no head!
Hahaha (But, really, where is my head? :-)

Who or what gives them?
Who or what gives what? Commands?
Maybe the atoms, habits, a God, but these are just thoughts!
When looking, I'm sure there is no one separate from 'this' who gives commands outside the flow of happenings in reality.

Look for the point where the decision was made.
There is no such 'point' in my direct experience of everyday living.

Is it possible to find such a point?
No. And I just said that in the previous answer without reading this question. I answered your next question before this. Funny :-)

Can a source be found?
What source? Source of decisions, the real director for commanding the changes of scenes in this life-movie?
I can't see no such thing now, I'll dig deeper later & report to you.

Or not! Hahaha 🤪 😁
So much fun here, thanks for this
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:33 am

Hi Reza,
Thank you for the pointers!
Somehow this inquiry is not like finding answers again, there's nobody answering, felt like these questions are the pointers to just 'look' and invitations of experiencing sensations: being 'here' in the real world but even without questions the reality is still 'this'
You are most welcome :-) Yes, this inquiry has nothing to do with learning and finding answers. All that is needed is just to look at experience which you are doing really great.
But the fear, when looked with direct experience: is just some real sensations arising and thoughts about the future that are not real.
Exactly. If fear or resistance arise during the investigation - just share so we can look at it closer.
Once there was excitement and wonderful feeling, fleeting and then subsided, now there's memories that are not real, just in thoughts, life back to normal, ordinary, regular, daily activities but I'm not as often felt anger or fear, more relaxed.
Being peaceful 'here' by just Look and I can see again 'this'
Yes, all sort of feelings can arise and they are welcome to arise.
Yes, relaxation can appear, this happen quite often, all the system relaxes.
And yes - it is so ordinary and simple.

Look - is there someone being peaceful or there is peacefulness?

And such a lovely investigation with the exercese.
Let's make another one, it's so much fun really :-)

Take two glases with different beverages (milk and water, or juise and coke, or coffe and tea). It could be also something else..
Put these glasses in front of you. Close your eyes for a min and than look at glasses and choose one.
If a thought arrise "I prefer milk instea tea" - look:
Did you choose this preference?

As you do this notice whether a 'self' does it. Also notice if there are many or any moments in the whole procedure of taking glasses, puting something in them (etc) when 'you' control the process?

How the decision is made which glass to choose?
Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
Do ‘you’ choose?
Can a chooser be located?

No, nowhere in this body or inside the head, there is no head!
Hahaha (But, really, where is my head? :-)
LOL. We will look at the notion of the body later. :-)

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:58 pm

Hi Luchana,
Thank you for giving your attention and your time.
I know you're very busy now, I saw you live on YouTube.
Nevertheless, this is just my thought and I'm happy to see you.


Look - is there someone being peaceful or there is peacefulness?
Look: I'm seeing colors and hearing sounds, also aware of the silent between sounds, space in the visual field, feeling warm sensations, smelling something, all there is this experience of life.
I don't know if the 'peacefulness' is the right word again.
Words are all label from the mind that are thoughts,
When I 'LOOK' here, there is 'this' oneness of sensations.


Did you choose this preference?
No, the thoughts just arising; telling story about choosing and another thought with blurry image of the preferred drink.
But the five sensations are more dominant than thoughts.
In the direct experience, there's no one with a free will to choose.
Choosing just happens without an independent chooser.


When 'you' control the process?
I see no controller or point of command to disrupt the flow.
The process is flowing without any disruption from a controller.


How the decision is made which glass to choose?
Decision occurs, without a decider while life unfolding.
The thoughts of an entity, an independent agent is there.
But it's only a story, an ego that choose and have free will.
This ego is fictious not real, in reality all which happens - flows.


Is there a moment of choice or it happens automatically?
When I try to look moments, it just a thoughts of the flow of time.
And moments aren't like separate things brought together in a thread of time, there is no time experienced in my senses.


Do ‘you’ choose?
No 'me' as separate entity or independent agent outside life.
There's no time also, only thoughts labeling past, present, future.
Anytime I see are all automatically happening, without an 'I' like nature, animals, trees; all forms and colors are dancing without a dancer. Funny, they're all empty. I see nothingness as things.
Like ghost towns, all I see is like a haunted world, but no fear.


Can a chooser be located?
Nowhere to be found. Everywhere I looked, tried to hear or feeling something, there were sensations and thoughts arising but they are not me, where is this "I, me, mine" as a choser? Nowhere! 🙂



Thanks!
Regards,
Reza

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:52 am

Hi Luchana,

I want to update you something if that's okay?
I think there is resistance here, no progress.
But I think again if this thoughts were true?

Honestly, all your questions I could write with good answers.
But, I think that just from my intellectual understanding.
Even if I wrote it just after I practiced the exercises.

I still do the exercises daily and repeatedly.
But somehow, I still cannot see clearly.
That there is no a separate self here.

I'm still feeling upset with my manager this morning,
And I also still got angry with my wife last night.
Sadness of having an autistic son, hatred, etc.

All these emotions, thought-stories and sensations...
Or maybe I just have unrealistic expectations too?
What should I do, where do I look, please tell me.

Thank you!
Regards,
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:41 am

Hi Reza,

Тhank you for your replies! I appreciate the honesty and vulnerability been expressed.
I'm going to look the second one, cause I see something which need attention there. Hope that's fine.
Thank you for giving your attention and your time.
I know you're very busy now, I saw you live on YouTube.
Nevertheless, this is just my thought and I'm happy to see you.
Oh, it is such a joy and out of efford, so you don't have to worry at all :-)
I'm happy that you resonate with some of nothing.fm videos, there are wonderful guidelines is some of them.
I'll be glad if we meet next time :-)
I want to update you something if that's okay?
I think there is resistance here, no progress.
But I think again if this thoughts were true?
Thank you for sharing this with me. And I understand how you feel, really. That resistance is completely fine and it is very common. It's happen often and it's part of the process. Just trust (the process), it has already started.

A resistance can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, resistance is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job very well. It is protecting something from being find out. Now, let's take a closer look.
Sit fow a while (10-15 min) somewhere and relax.
Look at the resistance and just let it be here.
Find where in the body is being felt, bring it closer. It's fine to just let it be. It's ok for resistance to be here.

Can you say something more about it?

What is this resistance about?

Is it protecting something?

What would might happen if you not resist?


Examine closely, no rush. Just gentle curiosity.
I'm still feeling upset with my manager this morning,
And I also still got angry with my wife last night.
Sadness of having an autistic son, hatred, etc.

All these emotions, thought-stories and sensations...
Or maybe I just have unrealistic expectations too?
What should I do, where do I look, please tell me.
All is OK All this is normal. It is part of experience to be human. The buffet is widely open for each emotion, but it just not we that choose.
Seeing that there is no one here controling thoughts and sensations is one thing - yes, the main belief fails. But there are many other beliefs and they will gradually failing apart. This is just the begining, just the first step, sensations will continue arising and thoughts will continue claiming this and that. The show must and will go on :-) But when an emotion pop up and trigger surtain feeling it is not because the self is back. All the conditioning is not going to fail down in an instant, just like it does not build in a day :-)

There is ALREADY no-self, there is ALREADY worries and feeling could stick too, and yet worries and feelings appear.
So why would this change if the self illusion is seen for what it is?

Stick already doesn't happen, it's just SEEMS that way. But just because the self is seen for to be an illusion, it doesn't mean that it will stop appearing. The self-illusion will go on, just as the seeming stickiness of emotions. There are just floating freely with nothing to stick to.
And the personality stays almost completely intact.

An emotional pain and trauma won't disappear with the magic stick just because the self is seen to be an illusion. Some may stay weeks, months. years, a lifetime. All these will need further looking, but what I can share is that is often easier to deal with those once when the main beliefe has dropped. Freedom is not from, but with. All the spectrum of emotions is free to appear, without belonging to anyone or anything.

Can you look - Is there a hidden expectation that suffering, triggers, so called negative emotions will stop?

Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:14 pm

Hi Luchana,

TODAY I got a very terrible headache and went to see a doctor.
She said I have hypertension 190/140 and after taking the drugs,
This afternoon my tension is still high 160/90 and still dizzy.


Maybe I need sometime to rest and to be able to reply with
A more deeply looking and answering your questions properly.
But is this a resistance too? I should look all the sensations now.


Can you say something more about it?
It’s a belief, a thought about thoughts that this seeking needs more closure, and not trusting the process because another belief about feeling stuck, a dead end.
Can a belief or a thought triggers sensations like somewhere in the heart/chest area?


What is this resistance about?
About insecurity, feeling out of control, and the contraction felt in the chest and head area.
Whereas when I LOOK, there is no head and when I touch something like in my bed, there is nobody felt just a sensation without borders or differing between bed and a body.
When I see my hand on a table, there’s one view with different colors but no direct information about a hand and a table from the experience just two colors and forms/shapes, so there is nobody, no head, no hand.
Yet, some sensations in the chest and head arising felt (triggering) a thought as a belief to resist this new paradigm/perspective to replace the old beliefs.


Is it protecting something?
Protecting old beliefs and comfort zone of some old programmings (belief, habits, ego as a separate self)


What would might happen if you not resist?
I don’t know, maybe some hidden fear that I’m afraid I’m falling without a bottom, so if I’m not resisting I will fall or I’m afraid that I will see me and other people as zombies, bodies without a soul, empty vessels, a hollow universe, scary place made of void.

But maybe, they’re all just thoughts and belief which are not true, so if I’m not resisting, peacefulness will presents with my total acceptance? I don’t know, I still don’t believe that.

So, I need more time to look, again and again, repeatedly...


Can you look - Is there a hidden expectation that suffering, triggers, so called negative emotions will stop?
Yes, I have read Bahiya Sutta (exercises when seeing there’s only seen, when hearing there’s only the heard, etc.) and The Buddha said in the end of the story that this is the end of suffering.
So this is maybe the hidden expectations: to end my suffering and vanish all the triggers, negative emotions, to unveil the truth

I don’t know, I’m feeling under the weather.
I’ll write again, if I’m feeling better/healthy again.
Thank you so much Luchana for your kindness and time.

With love;
Reza

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Luchana
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Re: Undertand but Can't See

Postby Luchana » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:36 am

Hi Reza,
TODAY I got a very terrible headache and went to see a doctor.
She said I have hypertension 190/140 and after taking the drugs,
This afternoon my tension is still high 160/90 and still dizzy.

Maybe I need sometime to rest and to be able to reply with
A more deeply looking and answering your questions properly.
But is this a resistance too? I should look all the sensations now.
I am sorry to read this, really hope that you are feeling better now.

Yes, it could be a resistance showing up as an intense headache. Тhe Empire Strikes Back :-) Resistance shows up as boredoms, something more important to do and various sensations in the body. In my experience it was in a form of postponing and a unusual drowsiness during the day. Again - all good, nothing scary. The good news is that you are on the right track and that's why resistance is here. This means that your intence and vigilant looking at the questions exposes the falsity of some beliefes.
Take a rest, relax and just let these emotions and sensations to be here. Nothing wrong with any of it.
It’s a belief, a thought about thoughts that this seeking needs more closure, and not trusting the process because another belief about feeling stuck, a dead end.
Can a belief or a thought triggers sensations like somewhere in the heart/chest area?
About insecurity, feeling out of control, and the contraction felt in the chest and head area.
We will take a closer look here later, when the resistance calms down.
I don’t know, maybe some hidden fear that I’m afraid I’m falling without a bottom, so if I’m not resisting I will fall or I’m afraid that I will see me and other people as zombies, bodies without a soul, empty vessels, a hollow universe, scary place made of void.
This is nothing more than a belief which was picked somewhere on the road. We all do this. I was scared to death that I'm going mad and wount be able to take care of my loved ones... Nothing from these of course happend. It was just a belief, unquestioned belief. In some paradoxical way caring happens without no one involved in it.

And yes - there is no bottom...but there is no one to fall either. There is just free falling.
Yes, I have read Bahiya Sutta (exercises when seeing there’s only seen, when hearing there’s only the heard, etc.) and The Buddha said in the end of the story that this is the end of suffering.
So this is maybe the hidden expectations: to end my suffering and vanish all the triggers, negative emotions, to unveil the truth
It is so good that you can see the expectations here. And so beautiful is Bahia Sutta! (I'm not familiar with any other Buddha's suttas, but this one is just so true)
As about the end of suffering - we all do read it the way we want it for us. The self always imagine what it wants for itself. But the end of suffering is to see the insignificant of each tought and the added narative to each experience.
A thought appear - truggers sertain sensation-and story starts-another thought-more triggers...
This is suffering. Seeing that there is no one inloved in this is the end of suffering.

What I would suggest now is one day or two or even more to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Reza am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening. Look at what is present and answer these questions:

Can the character chooses what to feel, what to think, whether go for a walk or not?

Does the character choose this story?

Can it chooses another story, a different one, instead of what already is?

Can the story of Reza be seen as what it is - just a story, including Reza?



Much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/

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IndonesianLU
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Re: Understand but Can't See

Postby IndonesianLU » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:43 pm

Hi Luchana,

We will take a closer look here later, when the resistance calms down.
Yes, can't hardly wait!
I don't want to lose momentum, I still have intens willfulness,
Determined very hard to unleash the liberation, realizing 'this'

Yet, it was felt so paradoxical that we still using the dual language and dualistic approach, ie. By doing some efforts in the inquiry.

You're right, I need a day or two to do your suggestion,
Maybe if I'm feeling better and could go outside again, I'll do the inquiry while walking and sitting, observing all the appearances.

In the mean time, I hope the resistance shall calm down,
And I'm adjusting the expectation by looking more deeply,
Also the hidden fear and distractions to do other menial stuff.

With love,
Reza


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