the gibberish blabber - in need of help

[gibberishbla]

Good day Vivien!

Here are my investigative answers:

Things happen on their own, including any change, yes.
But where is the watcher?

There definitely is no watcher. No one behind these eyes or mind watching.

Is there someone actually witnessing thoughts and the body?

No one is witnessing the thoughts and the body.

Is there a witness?

There is no witness at all.

Is there a watcher separate from the watched?

There is no watcher separate from the watch.

Is there a witness separate from the witnessed?

Not at all. THERE IS NO WITNESS. Witnessing can happen without a witnesser putting an effort to the witnessed. AND EVEN IF THERE IS, I CANNOT AT ALL PROVE IT. I can only use ideas and speculations but in the direct experience, i can never go past thought or senses - senses are all there is. Anything other than thought and beliefs are assumptions or uninvestigated ideas.

Is there someone or something standing apart or outside of experience, looking in and watching the show?

No there isn't at all. Everything flows with no one forcing it or making it happen - it is all happening as life as a whole.

Or watching is just another thing that is just happening on its own, as part of life, part of the whole?

WOW Exactly! I typed the answer above before I read this - yeah! It is all happening on its own with no one watching or watching happens on its own. I feel like the self not being here is not an issue anymore because nothing has ever changed whether the self was believed to be here or not because it always has been LIFE BEING LIFE.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

There definitely is no watcher. No one behind these eyes or mind watching.

There is no watcher behind the mind??
What is this mind you are talking about? Where is it?

What is the experience of a mind in this very moment as you observe it?

I feel like the self not being here is not an issue anymore because nothing has ever changed whether the self was believed to be here or not because it always has been LIFE BEING LIFE.

Yes :)

How does it feel to see this?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

There is no watcher behind the mind??

Oh gosh! I just realized how wordy the sentence is. I was blabbing words like mind, behind the mind without looking in the AE of now. Wow.

What is this mind you are talking about? Where is it?

NOWHERE. Mind is a thought or a concept / idea. I was uttering words without looking clearly at the words. Wow this made me see things clearer.

What is the experience of a mind in this very moment as you observe it?

I DON'T KNOW ACTUALLY. I do not know what mind is except the conceptual ideas formed around it. But i really do not have a direct experience of mind. Mind is a 4 letter word, and that is all i know.

How does it feel to see this?

TO BE HONEST IT IS A ROLLERCOASTER OF UP AND DOWN - It has been like sometimes I feel so FREE AND LIBERATED because I have zero judgment about thoughts and actions happening. Like body does its thing, thoughts appear and disappear, life happens and then questions arise from nowhere and from no one - like ''what is the meaning of life?'' ''what am i existing for then?'' then it takes me a long while to catch myself that those questions do not belong to anyone, not a self but just an arising question like thought arising.... when the conditioning of anger, sadness and fear arises - this is when things are tough and difficult. It is easy to recognize in the AE when things are bliss and peace - but the conditioning and programming occurences makes it tough. Sometimes it feels confusing and it feels like intellectualizing ''THIS IS NOT MY ANGER, OR THERE IS NO ONE ANGRY'' - it feels impractical and insane to do so.

Hope what i said made sense. It is a constant up and down now that i see the clarity that the self is non existent at all. It feels so EMPTY most of the time - relatively it feels like - nothing - none - void - zilch.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

You did another nice investigation :)

I DON'T KNOW ACTUALLY. I do not know what mind is except the conceptual ideas formed around it. But i really do not have a direct experience of mind. Mind is a 4 letter word, and that is all i know.

Yes. The mind is just a concept, and imagine place or an imagined entity or thing that is thinking, or producing thoughts, or where thoughts and memories are stored, or in which they appear. Even the definition of it is not clear :)

It has been like sometimes I feel so FREE AND LIBERATED

When there is a feeling of freedom and liberation… what is it that actually feels that?

What does freedom or liberation happen TO?

What is it that is free?

Is there someone that could become liberated or free?
Is there someone to awaken?
Was there ever?

when the conditioning of anger, sadness and fear arises - this is when things are tough and difficult.

Yes, this is normal and natural. When there is any form of suffering (or any form of discontent), it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added narrative.

The personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through. All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.

We all have traumas; it cannot be escaped. So something happened in the past, which was perceived as traumatic at that time, and based on those experiences other beliefs of yourself have developed. Now, these beliefs are actively working under the radar, and being projected onto current circumstances of life, causing the same type of emotions that were present at the time of the early trauma/wound. After about the age of 6-8, we hardly experience any new emotions, rather the old emotions are recycled, replayed constantly, by projecting the original emotional response to current circumstances.

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

When there is a feeling of freedom and liberation… what is it that actually feels that?

Nothing and no one is feeling it. I have seen that this utterance of freedom is conceptually expressed as words from thought forms and feelings as sensations.

What does freedom or liberation happen TO?

It happens to no one. No self is free because free and ''unfree'' is simply an idea.LIFE IS AND JUST IS WITHOUT SOME ENTITY OR ANY ARBITER OR FEELER OF FREEDOM. It was just an expression from thought. Thought that arises and disappears.

What is it that is free?

Nothing. Free is a word that arises.

Is there someone that could become liberated or free?

No one at all. There are no body or no one to become free or liberated.

Is there someone to awaken?

No one is there to awaken. Awaken is there and that is all there is.

Was there ever?
No one ever. Awakening is a word or a concept or idea. In the direct experience, life is happening as it is. No one ever awakens. Seeing happens, thoughts happen, and no one is ever there at all.

These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

Oh yes! I can definitely notice that I am not as judgmental towards myself as I see through the personality accumulated by beliefs, thoughts and conditionings. Now I can simply be more gentle with life and let life flow through.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

Now I can simply be more gentle with life and let life flow through.

Does life need your permission… to let it flow through? :)

Look carefully.. what is it that can let life flow through?

Please make sure that you don’t rely on the memory of previous looking, ever. Rather look afresh with every single question.

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Look around, all colours are given, they are happening. It’s not that the me-character can choose and make colours that are present into different ones. Or choose not to see green and see pink instead. Colours are happening. Shapes are happening. Sounds are happening.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

Now look, what is not given?
What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

Is the me-character doing anything in life?
Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

Hi Vivien,

For some reason, it feels like a huge struggle to look at the questions today. I don't know why. It seems like I have no way of working on my inner child wounds since there is no self here to do anything. That is the stuckness I am feeling. It feels impractical and irresponsible to say there is no one making it happen. So if I lash out at my brother or get mad at the old lady on the street I can simply say ''THERE IS NO ONE HERE GETTING MAD'' - this feels SOCIOPATHIC AND PSYCHOPATHIC to me. I feel like it is so irresponsibly impractical to not be able to work on the emotions happening. I notice and can tell you from direct experience that no self is making anything happen. If thoughts are not mine, what made me think actions are mine too. It is an imaginary character with set of beliefs that does it thing on its own without any effort from anyone. But there is an arising of ''that is way too absurd to say that it is no one that is mad - feels like blame tossing and not owning up to the realistic view or the actual experience of the imagined self.''

Does life need your permission… to let it flow through? :)

Life happens on its own without my permission at all.

Look carefully.. what is it that can let life flow through?

I really do not know what it is that can life flow through. I can only use ideas and concepts like energy, life force, or just life's spontaneous expression on its own but apart from that, I do not know at all.

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Happening is happening no different from doing - doing is also just happening on its own. In a conceptual sense though, doing is the apparent decision made by the me-character. Like I will save the baby from the burning building - that is doing. Happening is when someone gets a heart attack all of a sudden - no one did it to anyone - it happens on its own. No effort from thought, no effort from the imagined character.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

Sensations happen without any me-character, just like anything else.

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

The me-character does not at all bring about the feelings. How can the me-character or the imagined self create something from its imaginary nature or thought? Feelings happen and that's it.

Now look, what is not given?

I do not know what is not given. Everything in life is happening on its own without any given effort or what. In my direct experience, thoughts happen without a ME, actions and emotions happen without a ME and everything else is the same. Everything does its own thing.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

I really do not know. It feels like i had been more confused today in this new seeing.

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

This i can tell you, that everything is just spontaneously arising. Nothing is not spontaneous - but if i am thirsty, i will drink water and when the bladder is full, i will urinate -and that is not spontaneous that is cause and effect. That is practical human experience and it seems like i am not convinced or maybe i am on a blind spot i need help with. i don't know why.

Is the me-character doing anything in life?

The me character is a human being in this life. It is a trap for me to think otherwise. I would sound like a fool if i say that the me character is not real because Lee is a guy with hair, with responsibilities at home and i can easily say ''there is no lee'' and that sounds like crazy to other people. And to me, it is more intellectualizing. I can slap my face and tell myself i am not real but i have a body and mind that is in a modern world and as much as I can ''no-self'' myself, it's impossible.

Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

The me character is a given. The moment the baby was born, a birth certificate is given, a name, a gender, all labels and beliefs passed on to the me character and this me character now feels confused and lost all of a sudden.

I do not know what changed and so on but if you look at my answers, it feels like there is so much resistance, doubt, confusion and struggle. It just feels like it. Like maybe it is hard to go to the office seeing through that no self is there at all but IN THE EYES OF OTHERS and in terms of practicality, THERE IS LEE AND LEE EXISTS. It would be a massive push and pull to live in society telling everyone that there is no LEE, anger is just happening, i am not responsible for lashing out on a co-worker - it is just apparently happening. Doesn't it sound sick? I might get a punching if I tell that to a relative or a co-worker.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

Thank you for your honest description how you see things right now. It’s good that you’ve shared it, since now I can address the beliefs and misconceptions, so hopefully that can help.

For some reason, it feels like a huge struggle to look at the questions today. I don't know why. It seems like I have no way of working on my inner child wounds since there is no self here to do anything.

Here is a misunderstanding here. You are mixing the point of view everyday reality with a deeper seeing.

Any emotional wounds that we carry is actually much EASIER to work with after the self is seen through. Your assumption is based on the idea that currently there IS a self, a doer, but this doer can disappear, so it won’t be able to work through the emotional wounds. But this is not the case.

There is NO doer here, and it has never ever been! So whether you see through the self illusion or not, it won’t change the fact that there has never been a doer here.

Even if you work with childhood traumas right now with the belief that there is a doer doing it, that’s just a belief and not a reality. There is no doer. Never has been. And yet, working with the childhood traumas has happened, can happen, and could happen even after this belief is seen through.

It's not that there is a doer here and then this doer can die… there is nothing there to die or disappear in the first place!

So you don’t have to worry about this… working with traumas is usually much easier after the self is seen through.

It feels impractical and irresponsible to say there is no one making it happen.

We are not saying it… that would be just another belief. It’s not about convincing yourself that there is no doer, while you still fully believe in that illusion.

The reason for these resisting ideas is that it isn’t really seen. It’s not an intellectual thing to say or to convince yourself. This is an experiential recognition of the fact that there is and has never been a self, a doer ever, and yet, things get done, decisions are made, traumas are healed.

So if I lash out at my brother or get mad at the old lady on the street I can simply say ''THERE IS NO ONE HERE GETTING MAD'' - this feels SOCIOPATHIC AND PSYCHOPATHIC to me.

Please look at your statement carefully. You say “it FEELS sociopathic…” , look closely, that is not a FEELING. That is just a thought believed. Can you see that this cannot be felt only thought of?

You are keeping this inquiry on the intellectual level, and your frustration and resistance is coming from that.
You are trying to make sense of these notions without actually seeing them, and thus misunderstanding how it actually is.

I feel like it is so irresponsibly impractical to not be able to work on the emotions happening.

But nobody said that. This is just an unquestioned assumption on your part. But it has nothing to do with reality. That assumption is simply not true.

For now, I don’t reply to the rest of your comment. Right now the important thing is to recognize that you are telling a story about awakening which is not how it actually is. So your emotional reaction (resistance) is to the story you tell yourself. You invented a story, and now you are resisting your creation. Can you see that?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

Good day Vivien!

Oh my. I just felt so calm and at peace today after a day of looking deeply into your response. I noticed that the story of Leonard is playing out exactly the way it is supposed to. A story of creating struggle and resistance to what is. I really do not know how to compose the writings of this text right now but yesterday, I just abided in silence and it was so peaceful.

Please look at your statement carefully. You say “it FEELS sociopathic…” , look closely, that is not a FEELING. That is just a thought believed. Can you see that this cannot be felt only thought of?

This i can now clearly see. This is not a feeling - it is a thought believed to be true but arises from thought, concepts about sociopathy and knowledge about it.

Right now the important thing is to recognize that you are telling a story about awakening which is not how it actually is. So your emotional reaction (resistance) is to the story you tell yourself. You invented a story, and now you are resisting your creation. Can you see that?

I saw this clearly as the story arises and there is a grasping or clinging of a belief to the story. After I noticed this (although it was hard at the beginning), there was an unspoken ''yes'' to how this is just happening. The resistance, the anger, the feeling, the thought, the doubts and confusion have arisen and i noticed that the clinging to all that also is a given - it just happens.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

I really do not know how to compose the writings of this text right now but yesterday, I just abided in silence and it was so peaceful.

What abode in silence?

Do you believe that there is someone there that could go in and out of silence, and sometimes abide there?

Is there someone/something apart from silence? Something that is autonomous and separate moving in and out?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

What abode in silence?

Silence is nothing but a word. I don't know what is going on and this is only thing there is. No one here, nothing going on. The more answers I speak of, the more questions are produced, removing thorn with a thorn. This is only thing there us, no words can grasp it, no idea or feeling or thought can capture it. Silence and noise happen with no one to abide it it.

Do you believe that there is someone there that could go in and out of silence, and sometimes abide there?

Belief is happening but no one here to believe. No separate self at all.

Is there someone/something apart from silence? Something that is autonomous and separate moving in and out?

I don't know at all. There is really no one from direct seeing. No one and nothing apart from silence. There is autonomous and separate something.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

I’ve noticed that you have a tendency to reply quite quickly. Please don’t do that, even when the answer seems to be pretty clear. Spend a WHOLE DAY looking at the same thing again and again. This repetition is very important, even when the self is seen through.
Can we agree on this?

There is autonomous and separate something.

I assume that this is a typo, and you meant: “there is NO autonomous….”

Now let’s go back to an exercise I gave you before. Please look at this very closely. Make sure you don’t reply by thinking, but by looking. Also, spend a whole day looking at these questions again and again before replying.

Please make sure that you don’t rely on the memory of previous looking, ever. Rather look afresh with every single question.

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Look around, all colours are given, they are happening. It’s not that the me-character can choose and make colours that are present into different ones. Or choose not to see green and see pink instead. Colours are happening. Shapes are happening. Sounds are happening.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

Now look, what is not given?
What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

Is the me-character doing anything in life?
Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

Spend a WHOLE DAY looking at the same thing again and again. This repetition is very important, even when the self is seen through.Can we agree on this?

Oh yes. I definitely agree on this Vivien. Apologies for the quick responses without contemplating deeper

I assume that this is a typo, and you meant: “there is NO autonomous….”

Yes, a typo - it should be there is no autonomous

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Happening is the sun shining, heart beating, breathing, and all - doing is my feet walking to the kitchen to get a glass of water, getting an umbrella when the rain pours, answering a question when asked - that is how i see it during my investigation - the only thing not given is my reaction - everything else just happens by their own - but not my actions and reactions - like i keep looking at my foot and I am controlling where it walks and what direction it goes. I decide when it would jump or run or leap or sprint.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

On this one i could definitely see that the me-character does not do anything. Sensations just happen. The me-character only does action and reaction but not sensation and the rest.

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

Feelings happen on their own. I noticed and saw that feelings change on their own without any effort from the me character.

Now look, what is not given?

Action of the body is not given. Action is the only thing not given. The rest is spontaneously arising on their own. All just happening except action and reaction.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Doing itself is the action i am pertaining about. If the rain pours as i walk on the street, the doing is putting effort on getting the umbrella inside the bag so the body will not get sick and wet. The only control is the action, the rest is just happening.

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

Body actions - eating, walking, talking, reading, jumping, sitting, lying down, dancing -all of this are not spontaneous. Based on my investigation, I can contol the actions and the me character is walking - walking does not happen on their own. Unlike the sun just shining or rain pouring or air blowing or anything. Actions are not spontaneous unlike thoughts, feelings, emotions.

Is the me-character doing anything in life?

The me character is reacting based on the happening. It decides the action if the sun is shining, it will wash clothes and do laundry. If hunger happens, the me character eats. If yawning happens, the me character sleeps or naps. Me character and action is one.

Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

The me character is a self directed entity but other than that, everything is a given.

[Vivien]

Hi Lee,

Happening is the sun shining, heart beating, breathing, and all - doing is my feet walking to the kitchen to get a glass of water, getting an umbrella when the rain pours, answering a question when asked - that is how i see it during my investigation - the only thing not given is my reaction - everything else just happens by their own - but not my actions and reactions - like i keep looking at my foot and I am controlling where it walks and what direction it goes. I decide when it would jump or run or leap or sprint.

What if I tell you that this seeming difference between happening and doing doesn’t exist in reality? There is no such thing as doing. Doing is a myth. :) So we are going to dig deep here so you can see if for yourself.

The me-character only does action and reaction but not sensation and the rest.

Where is this me-character you are talking about?
I’m asking it literally. Where is it? Show it to me.

Body actions - eating, walking, talking, reading, jumping, sitting, lying down, dancing -all of this are not spontaneous.

How do you know that bodily actions are done by a me-character?

Look very carefully all seeming actions for a whole day.
Is there any moment when you literally can observe a me-character showing up, moving the body and making actions?

Action of the body is not given. Action is the only thing not given. The rest is spontaneously arising on their own. All just happening except action and reaction.

Please go for a walk.

Is there someone, a me, moving the body? Where?
Is there anything moving the body? If you say yes, then show it me.

How do you know that the body’s actions are done by a me and not just a spontaneous happening?

Vivien

[gibberishbla]

Hello Vivien!

Where is this me-character you are talking about?

Here he is - typing the answers and having the exchange of answers and words from my computer to you - there is the me-character

I’m asking it literally. Where is it? Show it to me.

If I send you a selfie, a live photo or video of myself would that count as showing it to you? Or I can book a ticket and fly from my country to yours and there it is - that is the way of me showing you the me-character in a literal sense

How do you know that bodily actions are done by a me-character?

I was sitting down the whole day, lying down sometimes and I am staring and looking at the body from chest to feet. The me-character Lee is looking downwards watching what the hands will do, what the feet will do, what the legs will do, what the other body parts will do. That is how I know bodily-actions are being done by a me-character named Lee.

Look very carefully all seeming actions for a whole day.
Is there any moment when you literally can observe a me-character showing up, moving the body and making actions?

That is the experiment I did the entire day. I keep looking at the chest, the arms, the hands, the legs, and if i wanna observe, i get a mirror to see the face and observe what the me-character does. The me-character moves the body if the body is hungry, legs walk to the refrigerator and get some food. If it is bored, it gets the remote control and watches YouTube videos. The me-character with name Lee and body parts are doing it all.

Please go for a walk.
Is there someone, a me, moving the body? Where?

As I was walking, when I look straight and see the surroundings, there is no one there. But if I look down and walk while looking at my legs and feet, that is the me-character walking down the road. Where is the me-character? The one walking.

Is there anything moving the body?

Yes

If you say yes, then show it me.

I can show you a video of my feet, hands and body moving or dancing, or jumping or running. The body is moving just like the heart pumps in and out, the breath goes in and out the hands does its own thing - holding something releasing something, and the feet also, it raises itself up when it steps to the right and then left and then right and then left and that is how the body moves. In terms of ''is there anything moving the body?'' I am the one moving it.

How do you know that the body’s actions are done by a me and not just a spontaneous happening?

I do not know how to answer this except with the knowledge about the body. It is because the me is Lee. So if Lee wants to walk, it decides to walk. If Lee wants to watch tv, it does. If Lee wants to sleep late at night, Lee will do so. So Lee is controlling what the body will do. Lee is the body and the me-character deciding what to do today.