Desperately Seeking Freedom

[Susan]

Much gratitude for your beautiful and reassuring post. I will re read it and look deeper into it and get back to you. I am laughing at myself now saying I am feeling pressure 'being on page 4' here. Ha ha. How many pages should it take? Lol.

[Susan]

Oh no, I see that now we're on page 5. More pressure. ha ha

[zenkitties]

Much gratitude for your beautiful and reassuring post. I will re read it and look deeper into it and get back to you. I am laughing at myself now saying I am feeling pressure 'being on page 4' here. Ha ha. How many pages should it take? Lol.

Oh no, I see that now we're on page 5. More pressure. ha ha

I think you know the answer to this but It takes as long as it takes. ;)

Yep! Keep me updated today Susan, let me know what you come up with on your dog walks!

[zenkitties]

Btw you might want to just be with the dog walk instead of contemplation.

You will literally be observing exactly what is going on, instead of inside your head!

The dog walk IS THIS. it IS what is going on.

[Susan]

Btw you might want to just be with the dog walk instead of contemplation.

I tried this. Firstly during my sitting practice this morning - there was some release and relaxation.

Then I tried this during the dog walk. There was so much stress and tension in my body, it was hard to just be with the walk. The stress in the body felt like it was saying something along the lines of 'you need to be worrying and managing, you can't afford to switch off'. I noticed this pull to think harder about all that needs to be done today/this week etc etc and then noticed the stress could be there without the response of thinking harder about managing my life better etc. But the pull was strong, so it was hard not to get drawn into it and back into the head. Will try this some more on my dog walk this afternoon.

Please don't feel pressure, are you afraid I will leave you as a hopeless case?

Yes at times I feel like a hopeless case. But if not hopeless, it feels like this will take some time and I don't know for how long you can you keep going with this. There seems to be so much to unravel.

Control is a pretty strong last soldier isn't it? I could probably say you're traveling the dark night right now. Control was one of my biggest things as well.

Yep, I just keep banging up against this control thing.

What is frigthening about letting God into your relationships? And is that true, that if you don't manage your relationships that all will go down the tubes? I mean something has been managing such beautiful relationships, it surely wasnt you even if you logically defined it as you controlling it.

!

What is frightening about letting God into my relationships and life in general. Nothing when you say it like that. Let Go Let God. I recall a beautiful experience I had some years ago now of doing a walking meditation when, all of a sudden, I wasn't doing the walking. It seemed like something far more intelligent was in control. It was great. My mind just stopped fooling itself it was in charge for a moment or two.

[Susan]

Afternoon dog walk. Less stress. Fleeting moments of this is.

[zenkitties]

But the pull was strong, so it was hard not to get drawn into it and back into the head. Will try this some more on my dog walk this afternoon.

The pull seems strong. Relax into it, you can tell your mind that you thank it for its concern and ask it what it's worried about, why it needs to keep going. What is it trying to protect.

You'd be suprised what kind of answers you may receive, and when given an answer please tell it how much you appreciate the answer and its efforts and work in that everything is well without so much effort on the minds part, that it can rest. You can tell it that everything is taken care of, life takes care of life, it always has and as you aren't separate then WHATS GOING ON, it is taking care.

Yes at times I feel like a hopeless case. But if not hopeless, it feels like this will take some time and I don't know for how long you can you keep going with this. There seems to be so much to unravel.

Seems that way but it isn't. Thats just the story of how long it SHOULD take. And if you want it to take longer, it will. Right now you're giving into a story that's saying I have to be frustrated with this because I feel I have to work to see this. This is not so. Look for that assumption inside and who that assumption is based around.

Who is it based around?

Also don't worry about how much "I" can take, worry about your own well being. Taking care of you is taking care of me, do you see how that is possible?

I wasn't doing the walking. It seemed like something far more intelligent was in control. It was great. My mind just stopped fooling itself it was in charge for a moment or two.

Glimpses are very good. See if you can get back to that place of not self. Just be with the moment, with WHATEVER comes up is what IT IS. Even tensions, frustration, control. Those things probably seem more intense because layers of the union are being taken off. But lean into them, surrender and because of surrender compassion is shown in the now. Try as best as you can not to resist (mentally included, don't try and reason with the mind, but rather just listen attentively almost like your listening to a good friend tell you their problems. You know that loving nature we have when this happens. Thats what relaxing into it is.)

Let's fire up this question agian.

Is there a you anywhere in experience?

[Susan]

Life has got very busy in the latter part of this week, so I have not had so much time to be with this and post. I'm off to London tomorrow too, so hopefully life will quieten downa bit from Sunday.

The pull seems strong. Relax into it, you can tell your mind that you thank it for its concern and ask it what it's worried about, why it needs to keep going. What is it trying to protect.

Ok I asked my mind what it is trying to protect and I got an image of my mind keeping life at a distance. Protecting 'me' from life. And funnily enough, it has felt as if life is coming in at me from all sides at the moment. So firstly the mind simply can't keep life at a distance and how can life protect itself against itself.

Right now you're giving into a story that's saying I have to be frustrated with this because I feel I have to work to see this. This is not so. Look for that assumption inside and who that assumption is based around.

When you say this is not so, do you mean I do not have to work to see this or do you mean I do not have to be frustrated or both? But God, it can feel frustrating and like hard work!

Also don't worry about how much "I" can take, worry about your own well being. Taking care of you is taking care of me, do you see how that is possible?

No I do not see this, although I've heard this kind of thing said often and like the sound of it. But honestly I do not actually see it for myself. Sorry.

Let's fire up this question agian.

Is there a you anywhere in experience?

Okay not getting enough time and space to properly investigate this again - another cop out? however I have had moments of kind of seeing there is noone speaking on the phone but very very fleetingly.

Still trying your suggestion of just being with the dog walk but dog walks have been cut short due to busyness. Will get back on track from Sunday. I want to create more space for this in my life. Don't like too much busyness.

[Susan]

Good Saturday morning to you Nick,

I have just returned from a dry, sunny but nippy autumnal god (meant to write dog ha ha) walk.

I tried looking to see if I can find myself in experience but mainly felt frazzled and tired. Feel need to rest and do some tai chi. With this realisation, tears come from nowhere.

I did think about an actor in a film being told he's just an actor in a film. He then wants to get out of the film but its explained to him that he has no existence outside of the actor in the film so where would he go. So he can continue to be in the film believing the story to be true and that he is really a cowboy overcoming the baddie or whatever, or he can acknowledge he is acting in a film and he's not in control - the script is written. Now he doesn't suffer along with his fellow actors in the painful scenes but equally he doesn't believe in the celebration when evil is oevrcome in the story and he gets the girl or whatever. So he loses suffering and joy. But now he can just play along lightly and enjoy each experience for its own sake with out placing any great meanings on any of it. Is 'he' better off? Could be quite lonely if he's the only one to see through his character. Not sure where that gets me except its kind of sobering.

On that note I will wish you a lovely saturday.

[zenkitties]

Hey Susan!

I see you had a good god walk. ;)

I wish you a good saturday as well! Enjoying some time in. Had a talk with one of my good friends going through a break up haha. The issue of control seems to be coming up more and more as theme lately. Its all very wonderful. I'm very thankful that you are having these discussions. Because not only does it help you, I see things in the experiences over here that I get to play around with.

So firstly the mind simply can't keep life at a distance and how can life protect itself against itself.

haha, its funny for the mind to think that though. That is can keep what is always there are a distance when thought is within this thing. Life takes care of it despite its resistance to look.

When you say this is not so, do you mean I do not have to work to see this or do you mean I do not have to be frustrated or both? But God, it can feel frustrating and like hard work!

Both, I'm saying there are many other ways in which resolution can happen. mainly what i've been suggesting is the acceptance of it being there, and letting it pass through like a cloud passes through the sky. An open canvas. You're right though, a lot of the time we have to make ourselves go through those stresses until we see the easier way. I can't explain this haha.

I tried looking to see if I can find myself in experience but mainly felt frazzled and tired. Feel need to rest and do some tai chi. With this realisation, tears come from nowhere.

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. :)

So he loses suffering and joy. But now he can just play along lightly and enjoy each experience for its own sake with out placing any great meanings on any of it. Is 'he' better off? Could be quite lonely if he's the only one to see through his character. Not sure where that gets me except its kind of sobering.

It will never be lonely because not only are you not actually the character but everyone else isn't either. They are all just experiences, experiencing. What you see through in "yourself" is how everyone else is actually operating as well. In this there is NO SEPARATION.

It is very sobering, all experiencing IS THIS. the dog walk happening IS THIS. The tears IS THIS. the rest IS THIS. What is looking IS THIS.

I wish you love and compassion Susan on this beautiful Saturday as well. And Thank You. :)

[Susan]

Hello Nick,

So you're still hanging on in there with me. You have much patience and generosity. I am truly grateful for that.

Pleased to say I'm having a quieter day today. And it's raining so great excuse just to stay in and do very little! Seems important in this process somehow. However on my god walk in the rain, I really struggled again to do any self-enquiry - thoughts, fuzziness in the head, that stress which feels the need to control, all seem to be obstacles. I am trying to relax around this and see them as arisings that are all part of this. But there is a definite distinction I make between this and not this, successful enquiry and poor or no enquiry. So stressful controlling thoughts are not this, keep me away from this etc. I can see this makes no sense but it certainly catches me out.

I read a lovely quote yesterday:

'If you are you because I am me and I am me because you are you, then I'm not me and you're not you.' By a hasidic rabbi.

I read the quote to my 10 year old nephew. He thought about it for a moment and then said 'yeah, I kind of get that but its really hard to put into words'.

On reflection, I guess the thoughts about the actor in the film, was about questionning what the benefit of this process may be. Have there been any benefits in 'your' life as result of seeing you don't exist? Even if you say no, I'm not sure the seekin would stop anyhow.

Hope your friend's heart soon heals. Breaking up can feel very painful at the time.

[zenkitties]

Hey Susan,

Yep I told you that I would see you through the gate, and "I" have always been known to be very patient with people. Its part of the conditioning thats been worked on so much that it comes as second nature. :)

I am trying to relax around this and see them as arisings that are all part of this. But there is a definite distinction I make between this and not this, successful enquiry and poor or no enquiry. So stressful controlling thoughts are not this, keep me away from this etc. I can see this makes no sense but it certainly catches me out.

Everything IS this, I understand what you're getting at. The stress and frustration is also this because there is no I to experience them. It is just stress and frustration (or anything that pops into experiencing) that IS in that very moment. There is no you to experience them but they are there being experienced. Get it? The controlling of thoughts IS this too. However the stress of controlling doesn't have to be there, but until its seen through that thoughts don't have to be experienced and still be this, it will keep happening. :)

If you are you because I am me and I am me because you are you, then I'm not me and you're not you.' By a hasidic rabbi.

Yes this dives into the nature of how things are going. It's the paradox that explains that the you doesn't actually exist. You are that but not that at the same time. The experiencing that is going on is all that there is, no you to be included. There are ideas of a you and are being experienced, but there is no actually YOU there when it comes to if there is a SEER experiencing reality. It is what is being SEEN is what THIS IS.

You might enjoy this! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKqcRB8MqOQ

As for the benefit.... well you'll probably draw that if there is no you there what benefit can there be if there is no one there? However take the experience of when just glimpses of this are seen, and what arises in those glimpses and then see how that would be elongated over much larger periods of "time."

I think that would answer your question behind the benefit. The story is no longer taken seriously, much more playful ness arises. Much more compassion arises for "Nick" and for the people around him. Stress and worries still come up as they are also part of THIS however, they move on when they need to; no longer and no shorter then they need to.

It all becomes a much more lovely place knowing that theres no separation from anything in THIS which is everything. There is nothing outside of THIS.

[Susan]

How strange - you send me an interview of Benjamin Smythe, while I'm making dinner, watching Benjamin Smythe's interiew on Buddha at the Gas Pump!!!! Synchronicity. What a compassionate guy. Love him.

Will take time taking in the rest of your last post.

[Susan]

There are ideas of a you and are being experienced, but there is no actually YOU there when it comes to if there is a SEER experiencing reality. It is what is being SEEN is what THIS IS.

Did you mean to say there is NO seer experiencing reality? I get stuck on the sensory experiences of, say, seeing etc. So,for example, the seer seems to be needed as a witness of experience. But these sensory happenings are content of experience aren't they? They're not a witness are they? This seeing and hearing feels like witnessing though, which comes through me. Is this a dead end or is there something in identifying with the witness, which is getting me stuck in identification. Seeing, in particular, has a powerful draw somehow as being necessary for experience to be witnessed.

[zenkitties]

there is no witness, find the witness. Who's witnessing?

There is no seer, look. See this (and i say this as lightly as possible because of the paradox that is presented here)

There is ONLY SEEING being experienced, no seer seeing anything.

They're not a witness are they?

You tell me, is there a witness? Can you find it? You will not be able to, as soon as the thought there that says, "I am witnessing this." What is that saying that? Is that not a thought just being experienced?

A witness implies there is a you there, but look at it, is there a you there anywhere in experience?

Yes there is NO SEER experiencing reality. Reality is just being experienced. That which is looking is what THIS IS.