In search of reality

[Wilhelm]

Good afternoon!

Examine your surrounding and write about things like "I see wall", "I smell coffee" etc. After that do that same without using I like "seeing, smelling" etc. What's the difference between those?
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I wrote the story from both perspectives. The stories are different. The first tells of me, who is the experiencer of everything. The second story only describes events that rise one after another.

The second story, I think, is more real because it is based on purely genuine observations.

Without labels, there are only pure events.

I think labels affect both. They describe events and affect their experience by evoking emotions for example. On the other hand, if labels are not taken seriously, then they do not affect a pure experience.

I didn't seem to understand your question about my body? I can't answer this question. Can you refine?

Thanks for your questions

ps. You can now call me by my real name which is Simo. There are already enough of these roles to play anyway.

Simo

[thefin]

Moi Simo ja kiva tutustua :) Edistyt hyvin ja jatketaan juttua englanniksi.

The second story, I think, is more real because it is based on purely genuine observations.

What make this "I" less real for you?

Without labels, there are only pure events.

Where is Simo when there are pure events?

I see you understand pure experience, but you think your body is Simo. Which is only imaginary character, like Batman or something. Like that imaginary apple - you think it's there, but if you look, it doesn't exist.

Does W. need to aware of this awareness? What is W. covering i.e. hiding? Can you find the doer for observing?

What Is this awareness what you experience? If you scan your body thoroughly can you find the observer? Or do you feel the observer but think It's Simo? As said you have creative mind and you can make things on your mind, that you feel they are real.

I didn't seem to understand your question about my body? I can't answer this question. Can you refine?

Is there an observer, or observing is happening? Is Simo doing observing? Is there a witness?
Question about your body - what do you think is you body? Go and try to find where are you body's limits. Can you e.g. tune into nature, beautiful song - where are your body limits then?

Here's another exercise to investigate your body - just check while doing it rely on pure experience and compare where is Simo when you investigate. And answer also to this question: if you can experience things without Simo taking part to it, what you really are then? And where is Simo needed then? e.g. stretch yourself outside your body and see if you can do that.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Again many many questions - try to explore them and report.

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Good morning!

Kuin myös, hauska tutustua:)

Thanks for the reply. I have a lot to do with these questions. I'm going to the cottage over the weekend. I'll be there alone so I can spend a lot of time on this. Is it ok for you to answer these questions on Sunday after the trip?

Simo

[thefin]

Yes, it's absolutely fine to answer after you "deep" investigation.

Based on your answers I would suggest you to use effort on your body and far beyond your body. Investigate this awareness (that you are :)).

Have a nice cottage trip.

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Hi,

The cottage weekend was a disaster. It was freezing cold in the cottage. The sauna could not be heated because it could have caught fire. The fridge was broken and on top of all that there were mice to accompany. I returned home and realized that reality could be explored even if there were all sorts of distractions that are usually at home.

The second story, I think, is more real because it is based on purely genuine observations.

What make this "I" less real for you?

Because it starts with an idea

Without labels, there are only pure events.

Where is Simo when there are pure events?

I can not find it

What Is this awareness what you experience? If you scan your body thoroughly can you find the observer? Or do you feel the observer but think It's Simo? As said you have creative mind and you can make things on your mind, that you feel they are real.

Awareness... It's just knowing. When I scan my body I can only find sensations. I feel like an observer in experience, but I can’t describe it. Sometimes I feel like there is no boundary between the observer and the objects. I know that observing happens but i don`t know what is that. At least it's not Simo

Is there an observer, or observing is happening? Is Simo doing observing? Is there a witness?
Question about your body - what do you think is you body? Go and try to find where are you body's limits. Can you e.g. tune into nature, beautiful song - where are your body limits then?

It feels like the observer is behind everything all the time. It happens by itself. Simo is not needed, there is just observing.

Thought and logic tell me that my body is this physical organism. My body is limited because if I cover my ears or eyes, I can’t detect what’s going on outside the body. I think that this is the largest stone to be broken.

Sounds are easy to blend into. It feels like they are going through my body. It feels like my body has boundaries, but knowing has no boundaries.

Here's another exercise to investigate your body - just check while doing it rely on pure experience and compare where is Simo when you investigate. And answer also to this question: if you can experience things without Simo taking part to it, what you really are then? And where is Simo needed then? e.g. stretch yourself outside your body and see if you can do that.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

I like this exercise. I have a feeling that exercises like this are key for this journey. It is quite clear to me that Simo is not needed for anything. In that case, I guess I'm absolutely nothing. Stretching myself outside the body feels challenging. I will continue to practice this.

I did several 15 min sessions. I can only experience sensation about my body and my environment. Everything else is a description created by images and thoughts. From this point of view, I certainly cannot say what the difference is outside and inside. The boundary between clothing, chair, and body can only be found in imagination. I just feel the touch. The term body refers to a biological organism. Experience of the body refers to sensations and sight about it. I really can't say more about this right now.

As I mentioned earlier, this exercise feels important. I still have to continue this because I don’t have enough clarity to answer these questions for sure.

With loving regards

Simo

[thefin]

Hi,

Good, keep on practicing and you realize.

Just a quick note here when you mention "there is W./Simo observing" earlier:
We make this thing that there is thought connected to emotion/energy. I.e. you say, I feel there is Simo observing. You gave a meaning (a though) to thing that you feel. Try to do that WITHOUT giving a meaning and observing/seeing just that energy without giving any meaning to it - what happens? Is that Simo what you imagined only energy and only that?

Good work, keep observing and tell what you "see".

-thefin

[thefin]

Hi,

Hopefylly exploration has been going well. Return here to your cottage weekend findings.

Finnish cottage without warming on these days not a pleasant one :) Home sweet home.

Because it starts with an idea

I can not find it

Is something between those? I starts with an idean and on pure experience you cannot find it. Is it only thought, that makes you find Simo? How about if you just drop that idea...

Awareness... It's just knowing. When I scan my body I can only find sensations. I feel like an observer in experience, but I can’t describe it. Sometimes I feel like there is no boundary between the observer and the objects. I know that observing happens but i don`t know what is that. At least it's not Simo

Good point - you can feel there's observer, no boundaries. Trust you feelings there, don't attach any ideas to that. This Simo there is just that imaginary apple - you've been thinking all these years this observer is Simo even though it's your true self. Mind games...Let that feeling of observer grow, let it expand, let if fill you and your whole experience about this world and you it's limitless - not only your body. It's far beyond. And you laugh for that realization :)

Thought and logic tell me that my body is this physical organism. My body is limited because if I cover my ears or eyes, I can’t detect what’s going on outside the body. I think that this is the largest stone to be broken.

Good. This is the point where you attach all kind of ideas about your body. i.e. attach a thought to feeling/exprience. Just feel. Forget everything you learned about that. Explore everything WITHOUT giving ideas about body, limits etc restrict you. As you explore this further you will start to SEE what's here. Not an easy one at the beginning and beliefs about body won't fade away easily. Be like little child and explore without anything restricting you. Tip: there is no-one restricting - has never been.

As I mentioned earlier, this exercise feels important. I still have to continue this because I don’t have enough clarity to answer these questions for sure.

Good, meaning of these exercises to to give you ideas and experiences going further than you logic mind can handle and then you mind starts losing a grip about concepts learned.

When experiencing without Simo ask yourself: if Simo is not here and feeling happens, seeing happens, hearing happens, clouds move, exhaling/inhaling happens, eyes blink, smelling happens etc and from Simo is not needed anything for these happens. Ask yourself then: Who I am ?

Love yourself and find the love you are.

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Hello,

Hi,

Hopefylly exploration has been going well.

Of course, it is difficult to assess progress myself, but I try to do self-examination as often as possible.

I found that I spend a lot of time online and on social media and it seems to interfere with this looking. Life is too much online right now. Too much living imaginary world. This problem is now under control. Now only simple everyday life without instagram etc.

Because it starts with an idea

I can not find it

Is something between those? I starts with an idean and on pure experience you cannot find it. Is it only thought, that makes you find Simo? How about if you just drop that idea...

Simo is really just an idea. There is no Simo in pure experience. It is just an experience of being.

Good point - you can feel there's observer, no boundaries. Trust you feelings there, don't attach any ideas to that. This Simo there is just that imaginary apple - you've been thinking all these years this observer is Simo even though it's your true self. Mind games...Let that feeling of observer grow, let it expand, let if fill you and your whole experience about this world and you it's limitless - not only your body. It's far beyond. And you laugh for that realization :)

It seems that I am the emptiness in which the world appears. I am emptiness, but at the same time all the preceptions which occurs in the emptiness. I don’t know if that makes any sense here, but that’s how I feel. However, experiencing this moment is central to the body which causes this feeling of duality. I am patient and I will continue the exercises.

Good. This is the point where you attach all kind of ideas about your body. i.e. attach a thought to feeling/exprience. Just feel. Forget everything you learned about that. Explore everything WITHOUT giving ideas about body, limits etc restrict you. As you explore this further you will start to SEE what's here. Not an easy one at the beginning and beliefs about body won't fade away easily. Be like little child and explore without anything restricting you. Tip: there is no-one restricting - has never been.

I know the ideas learned affect this. So i have to regress to the level of a child:)

Thanks for all your advice, your encouragement and support. It has been invaluable in this prosess.

Simo

[thefin]

Hi,

Good, keep on experiencing as you will see things differently and reality there.

It seems that I am the emptiness in which the world appears. I am emptiness, but at the same time all the preceptions which occurs in the emptiness. I don’t know if that makes any sense here, but that’s how I feel. However, experiencing this moment is central to the body which causes this feeling of duality. I am patient and I will continue the exercises.

Good, you're starting see emptiness. As you said, this Simo if fading gradually away and now you're experiencing I'm the body :)

However, experiencing this moment is central to the body which causes this feeling of duality.
Examine: is body causing duality? Is body central to experience? Is there a centre of experience?

Thanks for all your advice, your encouragement and support. It has been invaluable in this prosess.

You're welcome, keep on going.

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Hello,

The life situation due to work is currently quite challenging. I feel exhausted and frustrated. However, I try to stick to these questions and look simply.

However, experiencing this moment is central to the body which causes this feeling of duality.
Examine: is body causing duality? Is body central to experience? Is there a centre of experience?

Yes it bit feels that the body is causing duality. All experiences are felt from the perspective of the body. I like to practice a lot of sports and I am very oriented to the body. Maybe this will cause a strong identification in my body. I just have to continue the looking even though it seems difficult now.

Happy weekend to you❤

Simo

[Wilhelm]

Hi,

You asked earlier if there is a boundary between clothes and body, or if there is a boundary between chair and body when I sit. This question came to my attention in the evening and something special happened. For the first time, it was clear to me that there is no limit. I checked it many times by touching the objects around me with my hand. Everything became clear somehow and all the sensory perceptions seemed unusually strong. All that was left was peace and connection with everything. This lasted for an hour and there was nothing I could have identified.

This was just an experience and it no longer matters, but I still wanted to share it with you.

Simo

[thefin]

Hi,

That's brilliant!

For the first time, it was clear to me that there is no limit.

Nice, keep on investigating with those exercises this "no limit".

all the sensory perceptions seemed unusually strong. All that was left was peace and connection with everything. This lasted for an hour and there was nothing I could have identified.

You see you're facing something that your logical mind cannot comprehend and you wonder: that's perfectly normal. At first it feels strange but when you experience that again and again you see that as normal. There is peace and love only on this moment after all. What are your thoughts about body now?

What happened in your experience to Simo? During that and after that?

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Hello,

You see you're facing something that your logical mind cannot comprehend and you wonder: that's perfectly normal. At first it feels strange but when you experience that again and again you see that as normal. There is peace and love only on this moment after all. What are your thoughts about body now?

What happened in your experience to Simo? During that and after that?

I am currently a little adrift with this I experience. Actually nothing concretely has changed and I am currently identifying myself in this body.

The first time that experience rose, everything just merged. It was just everything. There was no Simo.

I also had a similar experience yesterday when I did the exercise. When I touch something and find that I cannot perceive the boundary between myself and an object, my body is filled with some strong energy. This is difficult to describe. In fact, right now, when I consciously touch something, that experience is renewed. I'm confused.

Simo

[thefin]

Hi,

You're doing good, you're doing good.

am currently a little adrift with this I experience. Actually nothing concretely has changed and I am currently identifying myself in this body.

The first time that experience rose, everything just merged. It was just everything. There was no Simo.

What makes you think nothing has changed? It's normal to see a glimpse from real self and then "come back" to "normal". If Simo disappeared on this experience, would it be possible, that this Simo has never been?

Seeing real self has many ways to experience for people: somebody get's huge shift, somebody is just "aha", but the end result is that they find that Simo/self is product of pure imagination.

Take a look to this Ilona's video about body and tell your thoughts about that:
https://youtu.be/hUZdval8UM4

my body is filled with some strong energy. This is difficult to describe. In fact, right now, when I consciously touch something, that experience is renewed. I'm confused.

No worries here, you're in front of new now. But soon you realize that this feeling has something very very familiar to you. Play like child and go into that energy. I'm sure it won't harm you :) What are your thoughts about that energy? What makes this confusion?

Looks like you've found one effective way to you to break free from limitation of imaginary self.

-thefin

[Wilhelm]

Hello,

What makes you think nothing has changed? It's normal to see a glimpse from real self and then "come back" to "normal". If Simo disappeared on this experience, would it be possible, that this Simo has never been?

I meant nothing changed, but the perspective on things was completely different. I know Simo is just an empty idea.

Take a look to this Ilona's video about body and tell your thoughts about that:
https://youtu.be/hUZdval8UM4

This makes sense. I have to delve into this several times.
This body thought is certainly so deep that seeing the illusion takes more time.

No worries here, you're in front of new now. But soon you realize that this feeling has something very very familiar to you. Play like child and go into that energy. I'm sure it won't harm you :) What are your thoughts about that energy?

I will play it🙂 I don't know what this energy is. It’s like an strong electricpower passing through my body. Maybe it’s life itself that I just haven’t noticed before. This has been going on for many days. I've probably confused because I do not understand why this is so.

Thanks again. The help you give has been invaluable🙏

Simo