(Hindi) Why sufferings?

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Yahaan ham yah dekh rahen hain ki vastavikata kya hai. Han, 'body related soch hai jaise ....', par us soch mein actual body nahin hai. Actual body sirf vartamaan mein hai. Right?

Ji. Right body to sirf vartamaan Mai hai
Regards
Pawan

[Kya]

Right body to sirf vartamaan Mai hai

Good!
Achha, to yadi Pawan namak vyakti hai to kahin milega to Vartamaan mein, use bhoota ya bhavishya mein khojane ka koi tatparya nahi hai. Right?

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Achha, to yadi Pawan namak vyakti hai to kahin milega to Vartamaan mein, use bhoota ya bhavishya mein khojane ka koi tatparya nahi hai. Right?

Ji bilkul theek..sirf present mai hai
Regards
Pawan

[Kya]

Ji bilkul theek..sirf present mai hai

Kya yah ho sakata hai ki vartamaan mein jo kuchh hai, vah bina "Pavan" ki atmakatha ke ho raha hai. Yadi "Pawan" ki kahani, soch, chup ho jai to bhi yah sab jo vartamaan mein hai vo rahega - rang/akritiyan, awazen, khatta/meetha aadi, gandhh, shareer ki samvedanayen, soch vichar. "Meri aatmakatha" itni baar doharayi jaati hai ki iske alava jo hai vo andekha ho jata hai, iske bina yahan jo kuchh hai vo aatmakatha ke kaaran nahi hai. Aatmakatha chup ho jai to vartamaan mein Pawan hai?

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Kya yah ho sakata hai ki vartamaan mein jo kuchh hai, vah bina "Pavan" ki atmakatha ke ho raha hai. Yadi "Pawan" ki kahani, soch, chup ho jai to bhi yah sab jo vartamaan mein hai vo rahega - rang/akritiyan, awazen, khatta/meetha aadi, gandhh, shareer ki samvedanayen, soch vichar. "Meri aatmakatha" itni baar doharayi jaati hai ki iske alava jo hai vo andekha ho jata hai, iske bina yahan jo kuchh hai vo aatmakatha ke kaaran nahi hai. Aatmakatha chup ho jai to vartamaan mein Pawan hai?

Atamkatha means meri story..right.
Can you please explain this again
Second thing you mean without pawan ki story ke yeh sab aisa he chalta ...right

[Kya]

Yes, aatmakatha is my story.
When there is no story about past and future, where is Pawan in the vartamaan? This story about me is very persistent and repetitive. But there is everything going on in the present which is independent of the story. In fact the story is a part of whatever is going on. But the story is not reliable about what is going on. For example, as we saw, the story tells of a body eating bhojan but you cannot touch that body in story.

Second thing you mean without pawan ki story ke yeh sab aisa he chalta ...right

Yes, bilkul,without pawan ki story ke yah saab aisa hi chalta. Right? Is it seen clearly?

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

When there is no story about past and future, where is Pawan in the vartamaan? This story about me is very persistent and repetitive. But there is everything going on in the present which is independent of the story. In fact the story is a part of whatever is going on. But the story is not reliable about what is going on. For example, as we saw, the story tells of a body eating bhojan but you cannot touch that body in story.

True...it seems to that its like a flow.
Regards
Pawan

[Kya]

When there is no story about past and future, where is Pawan in the vartamaan? This story about me is very persistent and repetitive. But there is everything going on in the present which is independent of the story. In fact the story is a part of whatever is going on. But the story is not reliable about what is going on. For example, as we saw, the story tells of a body eating bhojan but you cannot touch that body in story.

True...it seems to that its like a flow.

Vartaman mein, yah jo hai, isamein, is ka koi alak bhag hai jo ise control kar raha hai?

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Vartaman mein, yah jo hai, isamein, is ka koi alak bhag hai jo ise control kar raha hai?

May be God or bhagwan..koi hai jo sab kuch chal raha hai par again no experience
Regards pawan

[Kya]

Hi Pawan,

May be God or bhagwan..koi hai jo sab kuch chal raha hai par again no experience

Liberation unleashed ka maksad bhagwan ka experience karawane ka nahi hai. Maksad yah hai ki dekhen ki vartaman ka jo experience hai, ismen Pawan namak kuchh nahi hai.

Yah padhen, liberation unleashed ke homepage se maine translate kiya hai -

LU ka yah maksad hai. Ham logon ko kahate hain ki sab distractions se dhyan hata kar, aap jo apane aap ko jo samjhate ho, us taraf dekhen. Kuchh samay seedhe aur honestly dekhane par yah simple, ashcharyajanak aur saaf dikhai dene wala fact spashta ho jayega - koi self(vyakti) nahi hai, kabhi nahin tha. Abhi jo conversation hai uska uddeshya sirf itna hi hai.

Aapko shayad yah lagata hai ki ham experience ko badalane ki koshish kar rahe hain. Nahin, aisa bilkul nahi hai. Ham experience ko badalane ki koi koshish nahi kar rahe. Jo experience hai, usmen Pawan aik illusion hai, yah dekhane ko prayatna kar rahe hain Kya yah aapko clear hai ki hum yahan kya kar rahe hain? Yadi nahin to batayen.

Divya

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Kya yah aapko clear hai ki hum yahan kya kar rahe hain? Yadi nahin to batayen.

Ji clear hai ..maine sirf pawan ki story ko he sach mama hai aur kuch nhin dekha.
Regards
Pawan

[Kya]

maine sirf pawan ki story ko he sach mama hai aur kuch nhin dekha.

Pawan sirf ek story hai. Isake alawa kuchh nahi. Pawan kahan hai? Vartaman mein, bina story ke uska kya astitva hai? How does Pawan exist without this story? Pawan ki body ke nam par jo kuchh hai vo vartaman se alag nahi hai. Pawan ki body ke nam par jo kuchh hai vah na to dekhta hai, na sunta hai, na hi kuchh aur karta hai. Pawan ki body jab kahate hain to vahan kya hai - color(of skin, clothes), body sensations, thoughts about what this body looks like, mental images about the inside of the body. All this is not doing anything, it cannot do anything. It is appearing, just like what is labelled other, surrounding things are appearing.

[PAWAN]

Namastay ji

Pawan kahan hai? Vartaman mein, bina story ke uska kya astitva hai? How does Pawan exist without this story?

True .fer yeh sab mai kyu carry kar raha hu. Body se alag kaise ho sakte or body ko carry karna jroori hai is world mai
Regards
Pawan

[Kya]

D: Pawan kahan hai? Vartaman mein, bina story ke uska kya astitva hai? How does Pawan exist without this story?

P: True

I asked three questions. You answered "True". I don't understand your answer, are you agreeing there is no Pawan.

The questions that I ask in blue are not rhetorical questions. They are prompts to look in the direction they are pointing and describe what is there. They are pointers to no-self. When you look for yourself it becomes an actual knowing, rather than a conceptual knowing.

The questions that you ask will not arise if you actually look for Pawan's body. Please read my previous post again. Take each question in blue in my previous post and look for yourself and answer them so it can be understood at this end what you see. Is tarah liken ki yah saaf ho ki aap kya kaha rahe hain. I can point to where to look. The looking has to happen at your end. If you just understand it and don't look it would just be a conceptual understanding and give rise to more questions.

[PAWAN]

Pawan kahan hai? Vartaman mein,

Pawan to sirf vartaman mai hai.

bina story ke uska kya astitva hai

Bina story ke pawan ka koi astitva nhin hai.

How does Pawan exist without this story

?
Bina story pawan exist nhin kare ga.jo khud story hai.pawan ek lebel hai like other things around