MindLikeSky

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

And when there is a thought, that thought clearly EXISTS, not the content, but the phenomenon itself. Can you see this?

Yes, the distinction between the content of thought and the phenomenon of thought helped. The phenomenon exists.

What if it’s the other way around? That there is only the thought, but no awareness… since knowing is inherent in the thought itself?

Yes, the statement “Thought isn’t other than awareness” can also be stated as “Awareness isn’t other than thought.” However, saying there is no awareness seems as problematic as saying there is no thought. At present, awareness and thought/experience are arising together, not sequentially. Is it possible that thought and awareness are distinct, yet not two? Same rope, different ends?

What would the present experience be, the mirage?

yes, definitely appearing, yet not quite what it seems.

What if, what IS the present experience itself?

Freeing. Experiencing is experiencing experiencing. Threw the "is" into that sentence for clarification, but seems more true without it. Nothing to do. Relaxing.

What we are investigating if there is a separate self standing apart from life/experience/existence itself?

There is no separate self standing apart from life, just a confusion of habitual thoughts and ignoring.

Vivien, there aren't a lot of words in the looking. So little ends up on the page relative to the time spent.

Best, Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

Vivien, there aren't a lot of words in the looking. So little ends up on the page relative to the time spent.

No problem. What matters that you really look :)

At present, awareness and thought/experience are arising together, not sequentially. Is it possible that thought and awareness are distinct, yet not two? Same rope, different ends?

How could awareness be distinct if there are no two things there? Distinction means – two separate things.

If you can distinguish one thing from another, then you are clearly looking at two different things. But is that so?

Focus on the sensations of the hands.
Is there a dividing dividing line between a sensation and the knowing of the sensation?

Where exactly is this 'awareness'? Where is it located, where does it reside and what does it look like?

Is "knowing" (awaring), separate from what is “known", or are they one and the same?
Can there be a 'knowing' without a 'known' or vice versa?

There is a knowing/awarning of the letters on the screen now, right? Is there a differentiation between awaring and the letters?

Would knowing of the letters exist without the letters?

Is there a thought + the knowing of it? Are these two things? Or are these just different ways of describing the same happening; thoughts appearing?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hello Vivien,

How could awareness be distinct if there are no two things there? Distinction means – two separate things.

Does it? That is not my understanding of distinction.

If you can distinguish one thing from another, then you are clearly looking at two different things. But is that so?

No. In a mirror, many reflections appear as distinct from one another and not one of them is separate from the mirror. They are not different from the mirror, yet they appear distinct.

Focus on the sensations of the hands.
Is there a dividing line between a sensation and the knowing of the sensation?

No, it’s seamless.

Where exactly is this 'awareness'?

This awareness is pervasive.

Where is it located, where does it reside and what does it look like?

No location, no residing and has no appearance, yet where is it not?

Is "knowing" (awaring), separate from what is “known", or are they one and the same?

Again, it is seamless, knowing and known arise together.

Can there be a 'knowing' without a 'known' or vice versa?

There definitely cannot be a “known” without “knowing”, but the opposite??? Can knowing know knowing? It seems possible, yet calling knowing “known” does not. Knowing cannot be a noun or direct object.

There is a knowing/awarning of the letters on the screen now, right?

yes

Is there a differentiation between awaring and the letters?

The letters seem to appear in/as the awaring.

Would knowing of the letters exist without the letters?

No.

Is there a thought + the knowing of it?

Thoughts appear in/as the knowing.

Are these two things? Or are these just different ways of describing the same happening; thoughts appearing?

No, not two things, yet they still seem distinct. Thoughts are arising in/as the knowing, like images in a mirror. The thoughts are never other than the knowing of it.

Best, Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

There definitely cannot be a “known” without “knowing”, but the opposite??? Can knowing know knowing? It seems possible, yet calling knowing “known” does not. Knowing cannot be a noun or direct object.

“Awareness being aware of itself’ is a popular spiritual notion. But what I ask you here is to put aside everything you’ve ever heard or learned about awareness… and just stay with what is.

Like becoming a child who has no learned knowledge of anything.

Just notice what happens when you put aside ALL learned ideas….and just stay with the immediate experience…. You might discover something new! :)

The letters seem to appear in/as the awaring.
Thoughts appear in/as the knowing.

Is there an independent awareness waiting in the background for things to appear in?

Is there an awareness which is something special, apart from the five senses?
Is awareness something independent of and prior to sense perception?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

“Awareness being aware of itself’ is a popular spiritual notion. But what I ask you here is to put aside everything you’ve ever heard or learned about awareness… and just stay with what is.

Will do.

Is there an independent awareness waiting in the background for things to appear in?

NO.

Is there an awareness which is something special, apart from the five senses?

NO.

Is awareness something independent of and prior to sense perception?

NO.

Please continue to make sure everything is investigated, Vivien. These questions are illuminating. Feeling very grateful for your time and thoroughness as well as what is seen in the direction you point.

Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,
Please continue to make sure everything is investigated, Vivien. These questions are illuminating. Feeling very grateful for your time and thoroughness as well as what is seen in the direction you point.
You are most welcome :) I’m glad you find the pointers helpful, but it’s all about your honesty :)
Let’s dig a bit more into the notion of awareness.

Again, make sure that you don't rely on anything you've ever heard or learned about awareness, only on your immediate experience.

Is there a thought + the awareness of it?
Where does the thought end and the awareness of it starts?
Where is the dividing line between the thought and the awareness of it?

Is this awareness you talk about something separate from all the rest?

Looking happens - how do you know awareness is what is looking?

Does this awareness have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this awareness?

Is awareness something other than, different to, or separate from experience (what is)?

Can you find anything at all that is called "awareness", or do you just find experience (what is)?

In other words, is there a knower and the known? Or is there only the known?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hello Vivien,

Is there a thought + the awareness of it?

There is not. There is just this.

Where does the thought end and the awareness of it starts?

There are no ends and starts.

Where is the dividing line between the thought and the awareness of it?

There is no division.

Is this awareness you talk about something separate from all the rest?

It was, though not sure how exactly. Now, there's only experience.

Looking happens - how do you know awareness is what is looking?

There's looking, nothing is looking.

Does this awareness have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this awareness?

No and No. There's only experience and it is aware.

Is awareness something other than, different to, or separate from experience (what is)?

Definitely not.

Can you find anything at all that is called "awareness", or do you just find experience (what is)?

Just experience, nothing else.

In other words, is there a knower and the known? Or is there only the known?

Only the known.

Thank you Vivien.

Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

You did a nice investigation.

Let’s look at the notion of control.

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

Look around, all colours are given, they are happening. It’s not that the me-character can choose and make colours that are present into different ones. Or choose not to see green and see pink instead. Colours are happening. Shapes are happening. Sounds are happening.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

Now look, what is not given?

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

Is the me-character doing anything in life?
Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

What is the difference between a happening and a doing?

You made clear below what a happening is. Today, windows were washed, the cat was fed, dinner was made, work issues were responded to all without effort. It was just done. This seems to be a happening too, not a doing.

Look around, all colours are given, they are happening. It’s not that the me-character can choose and make colours that are present into different ones. Or choose not to see green and see pink instead. Colours are happening. Shapes are happening. Sounds are happening.

Yes.

What about sensations? Are they happening or the me-character doing them?

Sensations are happening.

And how about feelings? Are they something the me-character does or something that is given?

Feelings are just happening.

Now look, what is not given?

Nothing is found.

What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?

There is nothing to do.

Is there anything that is not just spontaneously arising?

NO.

Is the me-character doing anything in life?

No.

Or is the me-character given? As an idea? Or as a self-directed, autonomous entity?

The me-character is not a self-directed, autonomous entity. It is not other than life. It is given.

Thank you Vivien.

Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

The me-character is not a self-directed, autonomous entity. It is not other than life. It is given.

The me-character is life? What do you mean by that?

Is there an actual me in life / reality?

What is the me?
How does it show up in everyday life?

Is the self more real than a character in a book?

Do have a look:
What makes Peri, Peri? Does she has components? If yes, what are they?
If you would point to Peri where would you point to?
What makes the special Peri-ness?

Please spend a whole day investigating this, again and again. Don’t leave any stone unturned.

Vivien

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

The me-character is life? What do you mean by that?

Not sure what I meant by that yesterday. There is just this. Experience. No me-character can be found.

Is there an actual me in life / reality?

No. There is no me.

What is the me?

It’s an imaginary being. A thought plus ignoring.

How does it show up in everyday life?

The me, being nothing but confusion, attempts to push away what it doesn’t want and try to get what it does in an utterly futile effort to define itself as something separate and apart from the totality and pretend it has free will.

Is the self more real than a character in a book?

No, it is utterly fictional.

Do have a look:

What makes Peri, Peri?

Glitter and spit ;)

Does she has components? If yes, what are they?

Peri has no components, there is no Peri.

If you would point to Peri where would you point to?

To the sixth word in the above sentence.

What makes the special Peri-ness?

There is no special Peri-ness.

Please spend a whole day investigating this, again and again. Don’t leave any stone unturned.

Vivien, what is, is so simple, but it must be seen. Perhaps there are still some stones yet to peek under. May we continue? The demand to look and report through the written word has been invaluable. You have been such a generous and accurate guide throughout. This heart is full of gratitude for every minute of your time and attention.

Thank you,
Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

V: If you would point to Peri where would you point to?

P: To the sixth word in the above sentence.

:))) I really like this reply… lol :)

The demand to look and report through the written word has been invaluable. You have been such a generous and accurate guide throughout. This heart is full of gratitude for every minute of your time and attention.

You are most welcome :)

Vivien, what is, is so simple, but it must be seen. Perhaps there are still some stones yet to peek under. May we continue?

If you can clearly see that Peri is just a word in a sentence/thought, then what is missing?
What else is there to see?
What is not complete?

Do you expect that seeing or clarity should be there 24/7?

Is there something that is not totally clear and you would like to look at?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

If you can clearly see that Peri is just a word in a sentence/thought, then what is missing?

Nothing is missing.

What is not complete?

What is, is complete.

Do you expect that seeing or clarity should be there 24/7?

No.

Is there something that is not totally clear and you would like to look at?

No, it's just that spending the last hours of everyday looking, has become progressively more delicious. That does not have to stop.

LU is a beautiful gift to the world. Thank you for pouring your energy into it. It has been an honor and a privilege engaging this process with you.

With a deep bow, Peri

[Vivien]

Hi Peri,

LU is a beautiful gift to the world. Thank you for pouring your energy into it. It has been an honor and a privilege engaging this process with you.

You are most welcome :)

Yes, looking doesn’t have to stop. Please don’t stop. Just keep going…

Can you say with a total certainty that it’s clearly seen that there is no separate self in any shape or form, other than a concept/idea?

Is there any doubt?

How’s does it feel to see this?

Vivien

[0peri]

Hi Vivien,

Can you say with a total certainty that it’s clearly seen that there is no separate self in any shape or form, other than a concept/idea?

Yes, a felt sense of being a person is present at times, but a moment of looking reveals no me. It seems prudent to stop and look numerous times throughout the day.

Is there any doubt?

No.

How’s does it feel to see this?

A quiet smile. Peaceful. Intimate. It feels like a beginning in the best way, no fear or trepidation, full of curiosity and wonder.


Peri