Getting liberated in Brazil

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seeadler
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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:45 am

Anywhere a Dênis to be found, exept as an idea?
No.

Good. Just allow this simple fact to be there, and to settle. It's not a thought, it's the reality, found beyond mind.


So everything stays as it is. Only the "director", the controller, is illusory.

Like you see in the breathing - it breathes by itself.
Seeing, Hearing, Feeling, smelling, thinking - all is just given.

None of it all being done by "you".

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:37 am

Hi Dênis!

Hope you are fine.

Would you tell me, how is the situation there?


Since it is very helpful for this process to simply continue practising the "looking", I want to give you another pointer:

Isn't it astonishing how easily we get lost in thoughts and believe that what we think is really there?
Do you want to "come back to your senses"?
Notice what you are thinking of.
Then look around!
What is seen?
What noises can be heard?
Where is your body touching something?
Is there a smell?
What taste is in your mouth?
Do thinking and what is experienced now have anything to do with each other?


------------------------------------

And then I'd like you to repeat this exercise:

Lay down or sit down in a relaxed position.
Close your eyes and let awareness sink from head/thinking down to body/feeling.

Just in feeling, without thinking about...

In actual experience, does your body have a shape or form?
Is there a boundary between "body" and "clothes"?
Is there a boundary between body and matress/chair/mat?

Is there something like "inside" and "outside"? If yes, inside of what?

Is there actually "a body"?

Is perception "living" in a certain place?

In this perceiving - is there something missing, something that should be other?




enjoy looking!

kalle

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deniselias
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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:37 am

Hello, Kalle!

After some days, I think I finally got it!!
Life happens, I am just a way for awareness to express and perceive itself.
There is no I - this is a thought construction!
In actual experience, does your body have a shape or form?
No, my body has no shape, no form.
Is there a boundary between "body" and "clothes"?
No boundaries anywhere! Just sensations in space.
Is there a boundary between body and matress/chair/mat?
No, no boundaries.
Is there something like "inside" and "outside"? If yes, inside of what?
Everything is inside the realm of awareness.
Is there actually "a body"?
No, there isn't!
Is perception "living" in a certain place?
Perception only exists in the experience.

The "pattern" is clearer now. I see everything blooming.
And it is amazing!

Dênis!

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:42 pm

Hey Dênis,

very happy to hear news from Brazil ;-)

Sounds like something has slightly shifted...
Life happens, I am just a way for awareness to express and perceive itself.
Yes.... :-)
Since all words are concepts:
can you describe what you call "awareness expressing itself" still in other words?

There is no I - this is a thought construction!
:-)

Seems you finally realized what is - it's so obvious, and so simple, that mind can't accept it :-)

No 'separate I' anywhere.
The responsibility and control over "my life" is only existing as a thought movie! A sticky one, though.

Aren't human's mental abilities also a fantastic phenomenom of nature?
But to understand reality, they are of no help, because mind/thoughts appears itself in awareness, in the realm of AE.

----------
Great looking in the "feeling exercise".
Perception only exists in the experience.
Is it possible to separate "perception" from "experience?"
And... is it "located somewhere"?

:-)

Kalle

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:20 am

Hello, Kalle!
can you describe what you call "awareness expressing itself" still in other words?
Life unfolding.
Is it possible to separate "perception" from "experience?"
No, it´s not possible. Perception and experience are one and the same!
And... is it "located somewhere"?
No. It just is. "Location" does not apply.

Dênis

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:41 pm

Is it possible to separate "perception" from "experience?"
No, it´s not possible. Perception and experience are one and the same!
Can you find any separation - except in thoughts?


can you describe what you call "awareness expressing itself" still in other words?
Life unfolding.
:-)
....and still this is another concept...


"The truth that can be said is not the truth"
Was it Lao Tsu's words?


It's only mind that wants to grab something, to hold onto, while falling into sweet emptiness happens.



Dênis, it seems there are no urgent questions left- but if so, let me know.
Be prepared, that doubts will arise. :-)
That, too is part of "life unfolding"- and there is no final point of everlasting bliss, just the flow of life.


warmly,
kalle

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:41 pm

Hey, Kalle!
Can you find any separation - except in thoughts?
No! Since experience and perception are the same, all is one... labeling creates division and separation!
....and still this is another concept...
Ah! Yes, I got it! I thought you were asking it in a "poetical" or "artistic" way! But no, it´s impossible to describe...
"The truth that can be said is not the truth"
Yes... concepts aren't the true. They point to things, but they are not the things.
Dênis, it seems there are no urgent questions left- but if so, let me know.
No urgent questions... I think things still have to settle...
Be prepared, that doubts will arise. :-)
Ok!!
That, too is part of "life unfolding"- and there is no final point of everlasting bliss, just the flow of life.
Great reminder!!

Warm wishes,

Dênis

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:34 am

....and still this is another concept...
Ah! Yes, I got it! I thought you were asking it in a "poetical" or "artistic" way! But no, it´s impossible to describe..
Yes, I meant the poetical way ;-)
Just wanted to remind that every term brings some kind of limitation along, but that I see it's totally clear for you.

Be prepared, that doubts will arise. :-)
Ok!!
....but if the illusion of a separate self was once clearly seen through, it will never be unseen.

No urgent questions... I think things still have to settle...
Yes, just let things settle.

If you notice "being lost in thoughts", use the exercise from december 14. ....or, just watch it all happening :-)



If you feel ready for another 5 questions, to make sure the illusion is seen through, let me know.


yours,
Kalle

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:20 pm

Hello, Kalle!
Hope you're fine!

If you feel ready for another 5 questions, to make sure the illusion is seen through, let me know.
I just went through all this thread, and I'm ready for the five questions!

Best wishes,

Dênis

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:41 am

Allright, here are the first 2 of them:



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?


2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

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deniselias
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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:03 pm

Hi, Kalle!

Let's go:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No. The "I" only exists untill we look for it. When we look for it, we find it is a mental construct, useful in some circumstances, but the "I" is not what we really are.
There never was an "I". The "I" is and has always been an idea.
2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?
At the moment the "I" is believed in, the separation of the rest of reality occurs. "I" feels like an entity that is separate from the rest of the universe, and acts like this. "I" starts do feel like everything relates to "him", everything has to do with "him". When "he" does something "good", its because "he" did things right, and he is good. When "he" does something "bad", is either because "he" is bad or "he" is ignorant. "He" feels guilty. The others don't understand "him" and are always messing things up. "He" wants to be accepted and loved, and "he" wants to stop suffering.
Now, life happens through me, and this character "Dênis" is a result of life unfolding. Nothing is personal. No dramas, just nature. Everythingh is lighter, just flowing... I just watch!

Warm wishes,
Dênis

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:19 pm

hey !


3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:48 pm

Hello!
3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It's quite odd... at first, the purposeless of life scared me... but now I feel calm, amazed with the unfolding of life and the way I am part of it all in such a simple and at the same time marvelous way. I'm more relaxed, judging less (almost never), accepting the events with more equanimity.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
Things got clearer when I understood that our "task" is to watch... only this! Things happen, life unfolds, and we watch! I was afraid with the lack of agency (or free will), but this make things clear.

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby seeadler » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:47 pm

Things got clearer when I understood that our "task" is to watch... only this! Things happen, life unfolds, and we watch!

Somebody "having a task"?

Somebody doing the watching?


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences!


6) Anything to add?

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Re: Getting liberated in Brazil

Postby deniselias » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:01 pm

Somebody "having a task"?

Somebody doing the watching?
No, the task is done through ourselves, by nature.
Nobody does the watching. The watching happens through us.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences!
Decision - an illusion made of thoughts. Things done now happen because of other things that happened before.
Intention - thoughts culturally learned.
Free will - other illusion, maybe the toughest one for me in this process. All is given.
Choice - we like to think we choose, until we see there is no I. There is no doer. Therefore, there is no choice.
Control - there is no I, therefore there is no control. There is only things happening organically. It's a great pattern in motion, and we are part of it. We don't control anything.

Life itself, or nature, or awareness, makes things happen spontaneously. We are not responsible for anything, nothing is personal.
I'm still getting used to it... things are lighter, more flexible. I don't have a specific example, but things are different; the relationships are easier, there is more freedom (to be and to let everything be), there is more amusement and more peace.


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