What then is the "I"? Does it exist?
It really doesn't. It's not there, or anywhere.
Space for Ronin7
Re: Space for Ronin7
It really doesn't. It's not there, or anywhere.
Re: Space for Ronin7
It's like this "realization" that sticks.
For example, I study NLP and it's often times difficult to keep it front-of-mind.
This "realization" that there is no self, no I, sticks.
Not the typical mental masturbation of reading about something and going "whoa!". Then go on with the daily routine. This is different. It stays. I could be walking through the grocery store or gardening, and this awareness, realization, whatever "I"'m trying to call it, stays.
Thoughts happen, things happen,
It was there the whole time. It's so simple that it was hiding in plain site.
Feels like frustratingly looking for your sunglasses and they happened to be on your face the whole time!
So many years of studying, reading, working on this quest. Though I didn't know what I was looking for. I never could put words to what I was ferverishly, passionately looking for. It was just this itch I couldn't reach. A splinter in my finger I felt was there and couldn't find it. To me the fact of the matter is once I found the splinter, it really wasn't there in the first place!
Does this make sense to anyone other than me?
For example, I study NLP and it's often times difficult to keep it front-of-mind.
This "realization" that there is no self, no I, sticks.
Not the typical mental masturbation of reading about something and going "whoa!". Then go on with the daily routine. This is different. It stays. I could be walking through the grocery store or gardening, and this awareness, realization, whatever "I"'m trying to call it, stays.
Thoughts happen, things happen,
It was there the whole time. It's so simple that it was hiding in plain site.
Feels like frustratingly looking for your sunglasses and they happened to be on your face the whole time!
So many years of studying, reading, working on this quest. Though I didn't know what I was looking for. I never could put words to what I was ferverishly, passionately looking for. It was just this itch I couldn't reach. A splinter in my finger I felt was there and couldn't find it. To me the fact of the matter is once I found the splinter, it really wasn't there in the first place!
Does this make sense to anyone other than me?
Re: Space for Ronin7
Very happy for you.
It makes sense.
There is nothing to attain, and nobody to attain it. Yet I wouldn't go back.
Are you ready for the final questions?
It makes sense.
There is nothing to attain, and nobody to attain it. Yet I wouldn't go back.
Are you ready for the final questions?
Re: Space for Ronin7
Yes.Very happy for you.
It makes sense.
There is nothing to attain, and nobody to attain it. Yet I wouldn't go back.
Are you ready for the final questions?
Re: Space for Ronin7
R7,
These are the final questions....
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
These are the final questions....
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
Re: Space for Ronin7
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
There is not. Ever? No. It was this false thing , like a byproduct of survival needs and conditioning, that has been created by society and culture.
The self, separate from everything else?-No. Everything seems connected now. There seems to be nothing that cannot be outside of anything else.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of separate self...
What it is: wel,l it's an illusion, an imagined thing, created for various reasons such as survival, ego, psychological needs, a thing that needed to find a short answer to what we really are/aren't which got conditioned. An easily transmittable virus-meme supported and transmitted by TV, books, magazines, news, internet, etc.
When it started: Seems like it started in early childhood. In early childhood when society and culture began to re-tune, or start with it's memes and hacks. Reminds of the Looking Glass Theory. The ego being born the moment when a child looks in the mirror and recognizes him/herself. I'd say it's similar to that, but more along the lines of when kids start "absorbing" their surroundings and other people in society, and other outside inputs and influences. Since the majority of mankind doesn't "see", then the sense of self, the I, was just the default software that has the market share (so-to-speak) and started programming.
How it works: It works by reinforcing itself. It seems like it doesn't even"work" now. It never did. Humankind threw all these religions, philosophies, and other schools of "thought" on top of something that was never there yet really simple to realize. Humankind tried too hard to look. So hard, it's hiding in plain sight everyday, hour, minute, second, etc. It works by reinforcing itself through most stuff on tv, movies, books, media, etc.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
"Feel." It feels quiet. I don't know how to go into detail with how it "feels" because it's just feels quiet, enlightening (not in the textbook sense of the word), and, it feels vibrant. Perception feels different. Less chatter in the mind. Not going to give all my possessions away and go join and ashram or anything like that. I feel quieter, lighter, and present, and connected (in a way). Sorry to use "I" in that string of sentences. It feels quiet, liberating, vibrant, and lighter.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Tough one. I would start by asking them to show me where the "I" is. Can you point to it? Where is it? What is it?
Physically point to yourself and ask out loud: "is this me? Is it really me?"
I would ask are you your thoughts? Are you your emotions? What do you think you really are?
Listen to your thoughts, where do they come from? Your emotions too. Do they come from this you?
I would also ask them to describe what they think the self is. Then, work from what his/her answer is. Could be someone that is new to any type of this thought or a Buddhist so I would have to work from where they "are".
I know that is a round of questions and not a description but that's what I think it takes to start describing this illusion.
As far as out right describing...
Not being some thing. But just being.
There is no I am. Just am.
Nothing is separate. Everything comes down to cells, particles, molecules, etc. The air between your fingers is not even separate.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
It was gradual. 2-3 weeks of pondering and sorting this new information out.
There was a feeling of these things locking into place, and fitting. One of my big "kickers" was pointing at myself, looking at my finger and wondering what it really was pointing at.
When the seeing happened, everything was clear and quiet and connected. It all came together in this silent click. It just was.
I can't really remember the exact moment. It's just like one moment it was just there. The veil just lifted and it was clear. Like a final puzzle piece fell into place and there it was. The pushing over wasn't a crescendo "awe" moment like I thought it was going to be. Like when Neo saw the agents in the hallway as all those green numbers and characters. It wasn't a hollywood moment.
There is not. Ever? No. It was this false thing , like a byproduct of survival needs and conditioning, that has been created by society and culture.
The self, separate from everything else?-No. Everything seems connected now. There seems to be nothing that cannot be outside of anything else.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of separate self...
What it is: wel,l it's an illusion, an imagined thing, created for various reasons such as survival, ego, psychological needs, a thing that needed to find a short answer to what we really are/aren't which got conditioned. An easily transmittable virus-meme supported and transmitted by TV, books, magazines, news, internet, etc.
When it started: Seems like it started in early childhood. In early childhood when society and culture began to re-tune, or start with it's memes and hacks. Reminds of the Looking Glass Theory. The ego being born the moment when a child looks in the mirror and recognizes him/herself. I'd say it's similar to that, but more along the lines of when kids start "absorbing" their surroundings and other people in society, and other outside inputs and influences. Since the majority of mankind doesn't "see", then the sense of self, the I, was just the default software that has the market share (so-to-speak) and started programming.
How it works: It works by reinforcing itself. It seems like it doesn't even"work" now. It never did. Humankind threw all these religions, philosophies, and other schools of "thought" on top of something that was never there yet really simple to realize. Humankind tried too hard to look. So hard, it's hiding in plain sight everyday, hour, minute, second, etc. It works by reinforcing itself through most stuff on tv, movies, books, media, etc.
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
"Feel." It feels quiet. I don't know how to go into detail with how it "feels" because it's just feels quiet, enlightening (not in the textbook sense of the word), and, it feels vibrant. Perception feels different. Less chatter in the mind. Not going to give all my possessions away and go join and ashram or anything like that. I feel quieter, lighter, and present, and connected (in a way). Sorry to use "I" in that string of sentences. It feels quiet, liberating, vibrant, and lighter.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Tough one. I would start by asking them to show me where the "I" is. Can you point to it? Where is it? What is it?
Physically point to yourself and ask out loud: "is this me? Is it really me?"
I would ask are you your thoughts? Are you your emotions? What do you think you really are?
Listen to your thoughts, where do they come from? Your emotions too. Do they come from this you?
I would also ask them to describe what they think the self is. Then, work from what his/her answer is. Could be someone that is new to any type of this thought or a Buddhist so I would have to work from where they "are".
I know that is a round of questions and not a description but that's what I think it takes to start describing this illusion.
As far as out right describing...
Not being some thing. But just being.
There is no I am. Just am.
Nothing is separate. Everything comes down to cells, particles, molecules, etc. The air between your fingers is not even separate.
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
It was gradual. 2-3 weeks of pondering and sorting this new information out.
There was a feeling of these things locking into place, and fitting. One of my big "kickers" was pointing at myself, looking at my finger and wondering what it really was pointing at.
When the seeing happened, everything was clear and quiet and connected. It all came together in this silent click. It just was.
I can't really remember the exact moment. It's just like one moment it was just there. The veil just lifted and it was clear. Like a final puzzle piece fell into place and there it was. The pushing over wasn't a crescendo "awe" moment like I thought it was going to be. Like when Neo saw the agents in the hallway as all those green numbers and characters. It wasn't a hollywood moment.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 247 guests