Liberation this time round (with Vivien)

[tanyawilliams86]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is actual experience: seeing,hearing,touching,thinking,smelling but no seer,hearer,toucher,thinker or smeller. There is no one in control or doing anything it just happens. The imaginary separate self seems to be just a pattern of thought when seen for what they are it is seen that there is no self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to completely see through the illusory separate self. There is a subtle sense of self still here although I can't find this separate self sometimes it feels like the body is separate. I want to completely see what I am not.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that the guide will point in whatever way they see fit according to how I reply to their questions. I expect them to tell me when what I've written is not actual experience and is just thought. I expect to see clearly there is no separate self

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I read Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now 7 years ago and started watching Mooji's satsangs. There was just something about this message that really resonated. I started meditating every day (meditating stopped here about 6 months ago). I also watched Adyashanti,Rupert Spira and currently following Terrence Stephens ( a new Australian nonduality teacher). I have been through LU before. I had a thread on here in 2014 but ever since then there has been the doubt that I really saw through the separate self. There was more of an intellectual seeing.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

It’s nice to hear from you. Given the backgrounds, I think we can skip the expectation part :)

I had a thread on here in 2014 but ever since then there has been the doubt that I really saw through the separate self. There was more of an intellectual seeing.

OK. So to make sure that this time you really see it without a shred of doubt, I would like to ask you to very thoroughly consider your every reply and if you have even just a tiny bit of doubt that it’s not a full seeing, please always let me know. Since as you know, I’m going to base my questions on your replies, so it’s important that we both clearly know what you can see with total clarity. So if there is any doubt please let me know.

Also, I would like to ask you to spend a whole day with each posts, looking at the same thing again and again. As you already know, this is all about repetition, looking at the same thing again and again, relentlessly. And even when the reply seems to be pretty clear, please look a bit more.

It’s good if you can have some time designated only for looking each day, but it’s even more important to look in the midst of your everyday life, even if just for 10 seconds each. So aim for 50-100 small moments in a day, every day.
Is this ok with you?

Also, my suggestion is to look at everything, not just the body, and to be super thorough this time. If you want to we can go deeper than what is usually being investigated here. It’s up to you.

Please let me know if you like this approach, or if there is anything you would like to share before we start off with thoughts.

Warmly,
Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien,

It’s nice to hear from you. Given the backgrounds, I think we can skip the expectation part :)

Thank you so much for agreeing to be my guide. Good to hear from you also :) Yeah that makes sense.

I had a thread on here in 2014 but ever since then there has been the doubt that I really saw through the separate self. There was more of an intellectual seeing.

OK. So to make sure that this time you really see it without a shred of doubt, I would like to ask you to very thoroughly consider your every reply and if you have even just a tiny bit of doubt that it’s not a full seeing, please always let me know. Since as you know, I’m going to base my questions on your replies, so it’s important that we both clearly know what you can see with total clarity. So if there is any doubt please let me know.

I definitely will let you know about any doubts. I am not just going to give an answer because intellectually I know it is the correct answer as that is as you say not a full seeing. A full seeing is what I am after.

Also, I would like to ask you to spend a whole day with each posts, looking at the same thing again and again. As you already know, this is all about repetition, looking at the same thing again and again, relentlessly. And even when the reply seems to be pretty clear, please look a bit more.

It’s good if you can have some time designated only for looking each day, but it’s even more important to look in the midst of your everyday life, even if just for 10 seconds each. So aim for 50-100 small moments in a day, every day.
Is this ok with you?

Yes that sounds great. I already devote a bit of time every day to reading and contemplating a few books I have on my laptop. I find it much more helpful however to have some guidance like this :)

Also, my suggestion is to look at everything, not just the body, and to be super thorough this time. If you want to we can go deeper than what is usually being investigated here. It’s up to you.

Please let me know if you like this approach, or if there is anything you would like to share before we start off with thoughts.

How do I look at everything? I am keen to look at everything. Thoroughness is what is needed this time. Going over everything with a fine tooth comb to make sure no belief is missed :) Yes I would like to go deeper than what is usually being investigated here. I want to clarify as much as possible. Nothing really comes up to be shared before we start off with thoughts so lets look at thoughts :)

Lots of gratitude,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,
I have an idea. Before starting with thoughts, first let’s be clear what is it that you FEEL yourself to be in your everyday life when not looking. This can help us on the long run, where to dig deeper.

As you go about your everyday life, isn’t it seems or feels that…

- I am the thinker of thoughts
- I am decider and chooser
- I am moving MY body
- I feel the body
- I feel sensation, I feel emotions
- I have a body
- and I am somewhere inside the body, behind the skin
- and I experience the world which is out there (outside of the body), and I experience it through the body’s senses
- I see with my eyes
- I hear with my ears
- I taste with my tongue
- I smell with my nose
- I touch the table with my hands
- I have a life
- life is happening to me
- when there is happiness, I AM happy; when there is suffering, I AM suffering
- I am the one going to bed in the evening, I am the one dreaming during the night, and I am the one who wakes up in the morning

Please go through these one by one. And see if this is what’s happening in your daily life when you don’t think about this topic.

Which points of the above list FEEL to be true in your everyday life?

Which ones feels the strongest?

Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien,

I have an idea. Before starting with thoughts, first let’s be clear what is it that you FEEL yourself to be in your everyday life when not looking. This can help us on the long run, where to dig deeper.

Good idea. I get glimpses of no self frequently but it is how I feel myself to be which where I seem to be stuck at the moment.

Which points of the above list FEEL to be true in your everyday life?

These points feel to be true:
- I am the thinker of thoughts (although I can see thoughts just appear and I am not the creator of thoughts there is a judgment that I shouldn’t be having thoughts that refer to an imaginary ‘me’)
- I am decider or chooser (although this doesn't always feel to be true)
- I feel the body
- I feel sensation, I feel emotions
- I have a body
- and I am somewhere inside the body, behind the skin (It sure appears this way visually which seems hard to see through)
- and I experience the world which is out there (outside of the body), and I experience it through the body’s senses
- when there is happiness, I AM happy; when there is suffering, I AM suffering
- I am the one going to bed in the evening, I am the one dreaming during the night, and I am the one who wakes up in the morning (I wake up with anxiety every morning which disappears once I get up and get on with the day and I am unsure why these sensations appear each morning. I do wake up early so I have to lay in bed for at least an hour before I can get up)

Which ones feels the strongest?

- I feel the body
- I feel sensation, I feel emotions
- I have a body
- and I am somewhere inside the body, behind the skin

Wow it's interesting to see how many ideas/beliefs are still here! Life is a lot more peaceful,minimal anxiety, less thoughts and I am seeing more and more that I am not the doer. I do want to share that upon starting to look at this on here again there has been some fear/tension come up.

Kind regards,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Wow it's interesting to see how many ideas/beliefs are still here!

Yes, this is how it was for me too, and how it is for many, even after the self is seen to be only as a concept. There is a big difference between what we can see when we look, and what do feel ourselves to be in our daily lives.

I do want to share that upon starting to look at this on here again there has been some fear/tension come up.

Is this fear strong enough to prevent looking?

Whenever there is a fear there is a story about negative consequences to seeing that there is no separate self.

Can you access that story?
What would happen if it were truly seen that there is and has never been a self separate from life, separate from the whole?
What would happen if it were deeply recognize that there is only life without parts, without a me living it?
What would be the consequences?

Warmly,
Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien,

Yes, this is how it was for me too, and how it is for many, even after the self is seen to be only as a concept. There is a big difference between what we can see when we look, and what do feel ourselves to be in our daily lives.

That’s interesting also that even after the self is seen to be only a concept that there is still beliefs or ideas there. Some people seem to imply that all that goes away upon seeing no separate self.

I do want to share that upon starting to look at this on here again there has been some fear/tension come up.

Is this fear strong enough to prevent looking?

No, it’s not a very strong fear. I think we should be fine to proceed but it came up so I thought I would mention it as there was a thought to mention it and it may be worth looking at.

Can you access that story?

It seems there is a fear of losing something and a fear of losing control.Like something bad is going to happen if there is no one to choose or control what I eat in particular.

What would happen if it were truly seen that there is and has never been a self separate from life, separate from the whole?

Nothing bad would happen. I am pretty sure life would be just the same as it is right now. There would be less thoughts and no identifying with the thoughts or feelings that appear. There would be a sense of completeness and seeking would stop.

What would happen if it were deeply recognize that there is only life without parts, without a me living it?

There would be a relaxation. Life would not be taken so seriously. There would be even less anxiety than currently appears for a small period of the day (before I get up usually). When with ‘others’ there would be no feeling of separation or needing to protect a self that isn’t there - so no more awkwardness even if I don’t have anything to say. But then again I feel life would be just the same but there would be a ‘travelling lighter’ as Paul Hedderman says.

What would be the consequences?

I am not sure if there would be the same care taken with how I eat and how much I eat when it is seen there is no me living life.So there may be weight gain. I am surprised by this thought appearing as when I first read this question the thought ‘What consequences? There is no consequences to seeing this’
And then again I can see how the above is not rational. The body will take care of itself as it always has. It naturally comes up here to eat healthy and exercise so I don’t see why the fear is appearing.

Many thanks,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Some people seem to imply that all that goes away upon seeing no separate self.

As you know there is more to the self illusion than just seeing that there is no separate self. All wanting and not wanting is about a separate self. The belief in separation, time and space is about a self too. So there are many layers to this onion :)
There are some expectations in your comments, so I’m going to address them.

It seems there is a fear of losing something and a fear of losing control.Like something bad is going to happen if there is no one to choose or control what I eat in particular.

I hear you. But this fear is based on the belief that currently there IS control over what you eat, that currently there is someone choosing which food to eat or not, and this chooser could disappear as the result of this investigation, so there will be no more control over food.

Do you see that there is a belief that currently there is a chooser choosing what to eat?
And when this chooser will vanish, there will be no more control over what to eat?

What if there has never ever been any control over what to eat?
What if in this very moment when there is a seeming control, there is already no controller choosing?
What if choosing has always happened on its own, without a chooser?

Please contemplate on this, and just notice the impossibility of it.

There would be less thoughts and

When the self is seen through the amount of thoughts usually don’t lessen. Why would they? Only the self wants less thoughts, since those thoughts mean something to ME.

no identifying with the thoughts or feelings that appear.

This is a very common expectation, but unfortunately this is not the case. At least not at the beginning. Identification with certain thoughts and feelings still occur. Why? For two reasons. Firstly, at the beginning, for almost everybody, there is a flip-flopping back and forth between seeing and identifying. Even after the self is seen through. The old conditioning of identifying is still strong, and there is a pull back to identify. So at this stage, which can last some time (and it cannot be known in advance how long it will take), looking should go on to help to stabilize this flip-flopping.

Secondly, when there is any form of suffering or identifying, it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added on narrative.

And the personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through. All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

There would be a sense of completeness and seeking would stop.

This is a tricky one. Seeking will stop in terms of finding the self, but on some subtle level it goes on, since suffering is not gone yet. So there could be moments of completeness but as soon as any resistance, wanting, or any emotional wound is triggered, the sense of completeness is not present.

There are many beliefs holding together the emotional reactions. These all have roots in childhood, as emotional wounds, what needs to be dealt with separately.

We all have traumas; it cannot be escaped. So something happened in the past, which were perceived as traumatic at that time, and based on those experiences other beliefs of yourself have developed. Now, these beliefs are actively working under the radar, and being projected onto current circumstances of life, causing the same type of emotions that were present at the time of the early trauma/wound. After about age of 6-8, we don’t experience new emotions, rather the old emotions are recycled, replayed constantly, by projecting the original emotional response to current circumstances.

There would be a relaxation. Life would not be taken so seriously.

Sometimes there is a relaxation. Until the next want or not want, or the next trigger comes. Just as with taking life seriously. As soon as there is any wanting, resisting or anything being triggered, life is taken seriously until the trigger is active. As you know, seeing through the self is just the first step, not the end. So suffering probably won’t stop. Resistance won’t stop. These needs to be worked through too.

There would be even less anxiety than currently appears for a small period of the day (before I get up usually).

This might or might not happen. Usually when there is anxiety there is some underlying belief or belief systems holding the anxiety at place. So it could be worthwhile to look into these underlying beliefs and work through them.

When with ‘others’ there would be no feeling of separation or needing to protect a self that isn’t there - so no more awkwardness even if I don’t have anything to say.

I hear you Tanya. But the thing is that this also depends on emotional wounds from childhood, and it’s unlikely that it would go away completely without addressing the underlying beliefs that holding them together.

But the good news is that as I mentioned working with the personality, conditionings and other self-referential beliefs are usually much easier after the self is seen through.

I am not sure if there would be the same care taken with how I eat and how much I eat when it is seen there is no me living life.So there may be weight gain.

Here is another good news :) currently the concern of what to eat is not simply there because there is a belief in a self, it’s mainly there because there are some underlying beliefs probably form childhood that makes this concern going. So that underlying belief probably will stay. So weight gain is highly unlikely :)

It’s hard to put this into words, but I try. With every emotional wound which carries its own beliefs about myself or the world contains its own ‘self’. As if any emotional bubble has its own specific self (like the hurt-self, the unlovable-self, the unworthy-self, the angry-self, the I-cannot-trust-others-self, etc) that we carry around. And although the self in general is seen through, these emotionally charged selves stays there (apparently), waiting to be triggered and to surface to be met and accepted and loved, one-by-one. This is a clean-up process, which takes some time.

And then again I can see how the above is not rational. The body will take care of itself as it always has. It naturally comes up here to eat healthy and exercise so I don’t see why the fear is appearing.

Yes, exactly. The fear probably appears due to those underlying beliefs that are there about eating and what eating and staying lean mean to me.

Please ponder on these questions before we start off.

Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for showing me how unrealistic the expectations expressed in the previous post are.

Do you see that there is a belief that currently there is a chooser choosing what to eat?

Yes,I can’t deny that there is a belief in a chooser choosing what to eat.

And when this chooser will vanish, there will be no more control over what to eat?

Yes.

What if there has never ever been any control over what to eat?

Then buying food,preparing it and eating or not eating has been happening all by itself. Whatever is responsible for this has been ‘doing’ this all along. I have never chosen anything...this is quite mindblowing.

What if in this very moment when there is a seeming control, there is already no controller choosing?

That seems most likely. There is a noticing that if there is hunger the body will go to the kitchen and get something to eat without any thought… there is no choice in that it just happens. Also the thought of what to eat just appears. Thought could say ‘I’m not going to have any more’ but then more is eaten

What if choosing has always happened on its own, without a chooser?

Then I have never chosen anything...truly...wow...Life is happening all by itself...it’s just happening with no one choosing,controlling...it’s all spontaneous. No one controlling or choosing but things get done or looked after with no one actually doing a thing...wow. Controlling or choosing is a thought that comes after the fact and there is no controlling or choosing those thoughts either. I am quite blown away by this.

There would be less thoughts and

When the self is seen through the amount of thoughts usually don’t lessen. Why would they? Only the self wants less thoughts, since those thoughts mean something to ME.

That expectation came from hearing of a few non duality teachers talk about how little thoughts they have. So there was the assumption this was one of the ways I would know the self had been seen through.
Good point! As everything is just happening by itself and always has been then why would seeing no self mean anything would change..that thoughts wouldn’t just appear like they always have. The thoughts just don’t relate to anyone.

Secondly, when there is any form of suffering or identifying, it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added on narrative.

And the personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through. All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

Thank you for obliterating that expectation! :) would love to uncover the conditioning that is not completely obvious right now. And it is good to know that conditioning or suffering doesn’t mean a self is there.

I guess there had been the idea that seeing no self was some sort of magic that resolved everything but as you say it is just the beginning.

We all have traumas; it cannot be escaped. So something happened in the past, which were perceived as traumatic at that time, and based on those experiences other beliefs of yourself have developed. Now, these beliefs are actively working under the radar, and being projected onto current circumstances of life, causing the same type of emotions that were present at the time of the early trauma/wound. After about age of 6-8, we don’t experience new emotions, rather the old emotions are recycled, replayed constantly, by projecting the original emotional response to current circumstances.

Thanks for explaining that :) It further helps me understand that seeing no self doesn’t mean old stuff will not come up to be looked at.
I wonder what beliefs are working under the radar. I didn’t realise stuff from childhood could still be playing out today. Maybe we will look at this at some stage. It’s so interesting that after the age of 6-8 there is no new emotions and that the old emotions are recycled and replayed projecting the original emotional response to current circumstances. I never knew that. I know this is not about learning anything but I feel I have today :)

There would be a relaxation. Life would not be taken so seriously.

Sometimes there is a relaxation. Until the next want or not want, or the next trigger comes. Just as with taking life seriously. As soon as there is any wanting, resisting or anything being triggered, life is taken seriously until the trigger is active. As you know, seeing through the self is just the first step, not the end. So suffering probably won’t stop. Resistance won’t stop. These needs to be worked through too.

I don’t really have anything to say to this but thanks for shattering this expectation :)

There would be even less anxiety than currently appears for a small period of the day (before I get up usually).

This might or might not happen. Usually when there is anxiety there is some underlying belief or belief systems holding the anxiety at place. So it could be worthwhile to look into these underlying beliefs and work through them.

Yes, I would like to look into the underlying beliefs to do with anxiety sometime.

I hear you Tanya. But the thing is that this also depends on emotional wounds from childhood, and it’s unlikely that it would go away completely without addressing the underlying beliefs that holding them together.

But the good news is that as I mentioned working with the personality, conditionings and other self-referential beliefs are usually much easier after the self is seen through.

Well that is a relief. At the moment I am not sure how even to access the underlying beliefs.

Here is another good news :) currently the concern of what to eat is not simply there because there is a belief in a self, it’s mainly there because there are some underlying beliefs probably form childhood that makes this concern going. So that underlying belief probably will stay. So weight gain is highly unlikely :)

It’s hard to put this into words, but I try. With every emotional wound which carries its own beliefs about myself or the world contains its own ‘self’. As if any emotional bubble has its own specific self (like the hurt-self, the unlovable-self, the unworthy-self, the angry-self, the I-cannot-trust-others-self, etc) that we carry around. And although the self in general is seen through, these emotionally charged selves stays there (apparently), waiting to be triggered and to surface to be met and accepted and loved, one-by-one. This is a clean-up process, which takes some time.

That is good news :) Just goes to show thought really doesn’t know anything.

You did a good job of putting it into words. There sure is a lot ‘going on under the surface’ :)

Yes, exactly. The fear probably appears due to those underlying beliefs that are there about eating and what eating and staying lean mean to me.

Sounds that should be explored after the self has been seen through. I actually want to see under this particular underlying belief as I haven’t been able to on my own.

Warmly,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Sounds that should be explored after the self has been seen through. I actually want to see under this particular underlying belief as I haven’t been able to on my own.

We can look at this later, but this would be a very different investigation. It’s a different topic altogether. But first, let’s just shatter the belief in a self :)

So let’s start it. We are going to start to investigate thoughts. Seeing thoughts clearly is essential part of the inquiry.

It is very important that you never think or ponder on the questions. Rather you actually have to look what you can see in your immediate experience before any thought interpretation.

Please always be thorough with looking. Look repeatedly several times before replying.

What do you do exactly in order to think?

How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?

Please be careful not to think about these questions, but actually sit and NOTICE how you think, how you do it exactly. So don’t go to theories, speculations, philosophy, or any learned information. Just notice what is happening here now in the immediacy of your own experience.

Please spend a whole day investigating these questions. Look again and again and again. Even if the answer seems to be clear, look more.

This investigation is about persistent repetition. Looking at the same thing again and again in experience, what brings about the realization.

Warmly,
Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

We can look at this later, but this would be a very different investigation. It’s a different topic altogether. But first, let’s just shatter the belief in a self :)

No worries, I am very keen to shatter this belief in a self.

I know it hasn't quite been a whole day yet but I have looked at the questions many times and the answer is very clear.

What do you do exactly in order to think?

I do absolutely nothing in order to think. The thoughts just appear and disappear.

How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?

I am not making or birthing thoughts into existence. Thoughts just happen. No one is creating thoughts they just appear. This is seen clearly in the immediacy of my own experience.

Warmly,
Tanya

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Great!

Try an experiment.

Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought comes?
What is making thoughts to appear?

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?

Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien!

Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

I found I am sitting here waiting for a thought to be created. I could not create a thought though. There was sitting in silence and then a thought would pop up. You can’t create thoughts.

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought comes?

Yes :)

What is making thoughts to appear?

I don’t know. What is noticed when looking at what is making thoughts appear is there is no one making thoughts appear. They just appear out of no where.

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?

Lol that was fun. There is no preventing a thought from appearing.It’s impossible. You never know when a thought is going to appear and it’s too quick to stop. You can’t stop or prevent thought.

Not sure if I’ve replied too quickly this time. I did do the experiment 4 times.

Tanya <3

[Vivien]

Hi Tanya,

Not sure if I’ve replied too quickly this time. I did do the experiment 4 times.

Yes, it was a bit quick. So even when the answer seems to be super clear, please look more. Look until you see the utter impossibility of it. And even after look a bit more. We want these seeings to go deep.

When you really see something there is a felt change in experience. There is slight shift in how you feel. It’s hard to explain. It’s different for everybody. I don’t mean that this felt shift is constant form that on; it might take only a few seconds, but there is something felt. So real seeing comes with a change in feeling (temporarily).

When this happens, then the seeing probably goes deeper. Try to notice if there is any change in feeling (usually in the body, like the chest, but it could be anywhere). Sometimes it cones as a relaxation, but sometimes it can come as a contraction (if there is a story about negative consequences in the background). Either way, both feelings are a good signs. They show that the realization went deep.

I don’t know. What is noticed when looking at what is making thoughts appear is there is no one making thoughts appear. They just appear out of no where.

Exactly. There is literally nothing making thoughts appear.

There is no thinker whatsoever. Is this true on the feeling level?
Can you feel this to be true?

Please stay with this single pointer for the rest of the day.
Let it sink in deeply.

There is no thinker of thoughts. Thoughts are totally automatic. There is nothing making them happen. Just as nothing making rain raining. There is no rainer. There is no wind blower. There is no tree grower. There is on thinker.

Vivien

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Vivien :)

When you really see something there is a felt change in experience. There is slight shift in how you feel. It’s hard to explain. It’s different for everybody. I don’t mean that this felt shift is constant form that on; it might take only a few seconds, but there is something felt. So real seeing comes with a change in feeling (temporarily).

When this happens, then the seeing probably goes deeper. Try to notice if there is any change in feeling (usually in the body, like the chest, but it could be anywhere). Sometimes it cones as a relaxation, but sometimes it can come as a contraction (if there is a story about negative consequences in the background). Either way, both feelings are a good signs. They show that the realization went deep.

I have noticed a relaxation, a sense of well being,love and happiness. So yes there has been a little shift in how I feel. Thought doesn't seem so serious now.

Exactly. There is literally nothing making thoughts appear.

There is no thinker whatsoever. Is this true on the feeling level?
Can you feel this to be true?

Please stay with this single pointer for the rest of the day.
Let it sink in deeply.

Yes it is true on the feeling level. There absolutely is no thinker. There is no entity thinking or creating the thoughts.
I 100% feel this to be true :) Seeing this makes things seem lighter somehow.

Warmly,
Tanya