Need guidance

[Olof]

Hey man, sorry for not answering for a while. Had a really busy week.

The awareness we're talking about here is in the background of everything else. It's behind thoughts and self. They rise on it. Thus, its of a more fundamental nature. Then you become aware of awareness, and thats a powerful opening to getting past identification with self, and see it with fresh eyes through a new perspective.

Just do that, and look at the self. Look at the thought processes when they refer to me, I or mine. Also look closely at thoughts that are comparisons, like "hes like that" (always compared to your mind made qualities). Can you see how they are just words in thought for and not really based on a real structure in this world? They revolve around the mental concept of you, talk about you, about other people in relation to you etc.

Look closely at these thought processes.

[santosh]

No issues. Just inform me when you are busy.

I am trying out what you have told in the last thread. Still, identification with thoughts is a major hurdle which is preventing me to go further.

[Olof]

So what happends when you look at the thought processes? Its thoughts talking to themselves. The you is the identification your talking about. Can you see how its not something real apart from an empty identification?

[santosh]

So what happends when you look at the thought processes? Its thoughts talking to themselves. The you is the identification your talking about. Can you see how its not something real apart from an empty identification?

The process of noticing the thoughts passively has still not occurred.
But from yesterday when I sit and observe thoughts, I feel very few thoughts are coming, especially no thoughts stories are running. I am aware of being in the present moment for little more time.

[Olof]

Dont worry too much about stopping the thoughts. That should not be you

[Olof]

Dont worry too much about stopping the thoughts. That should not be your aim. It really doesn't matter. What matters is wether you identify with them or not. Once you stop identifying with thoughts, they will naturaly stop being as manic and dysfunctional.

Just look at the fucking thoughts man. The thoughts themselves are real, just a way of your neurons to speak with themselves. The identification, the you that is thinking the thoughts, is the concept of santosh, the separate being from the rest of the world. I mean, look around, there is only the world. You are obviously part of it, there cannot be a you that is separate from the world, the world is experiencing itself.

If you look at this. "I dont exist, there is only the world, life is living itself, I am the imagination of myself". "Seeing is seeing, nothing else, not seeing by anyone, just seeing, hearing, tasting and smelling works the same way".

Go through these things in your head, look at your inner world. What thoughts and/or emotions responds to pondering this?

[Olof]

It seems like you think this is hard, like you have to gain a certain level of skill or achieve something before you can really start. That's just another tremendous mental block for you if you see it like that man.

Since the now is the only thing that exists, you can only see through your mind made self in the now. NOW. You don't need to gain or learn anything before you do it. Just look at it now, in the NOW. :)

[santosh]

It seems like you think this is hard, like you have to gain a certain level of skill or achieve something before you can really start. That's just another tremendous mental block for you if you see it like that man.

Since the now is the only thing that exists, you can only see through your mind made self in the now. NOW. You don't need to gain or learn anything before you do it. Just look at it now, in the NOW. :)

I think you are very correct in saying that. The reason is that ,this 'I- santosh' has always been immersed in thoughts, more than most people I see around.

Anyway, unlike most people in the outside world this 'I' is very much convinced or believes that there is no such 'I'. But when it looks inside for confirmation - 'No response/reactions'.

[Olof]

You arent looking hard enough. Do you want this or do you want a sniff of liberation? Do you want to become liberated to become superduper cool and enlightened master?

Are you ready for stripping away the you? Are you ready for becoming one with the world and see yourself as a process along with everything else that is going on? Are you ok with realizing that you are as much the person next to you as your own eyes?

When "you" see, there is seeing. YOU aren't seeing, its just seeing. Thoughts are happening, YOU aren't thinking those thoughts, they are just arising there were "you" are. The sense of self is another construction of thoughts that can comment on what is already happening anyway.

COMON MAN, put some effort into this. Look at this hard, go for a walk, think it through. I suspect you rationalize as hell and come here for some satisfaction basically.

It's about stripping away false beliefs, not adding anything. You wont gain a state of ecstasy, its a subtle shift. Dont expect anything special to happen, just test your beliefs about the self and see wether they are true.

[santosh]

I am dead serious about this. No doubt about it.
I feel its just my way of looking has not been that effective or penetrating enough to see through the self. I am trying.

[Olof]

Comon mate, give me something to work with!

Describe your current sense of self. Look at it carefuly. What is it? What is it based on? Where is it?

[santosh]

Its been a hectic day.

I will look at those questions for a day or two and see what comes up.

[santosh]

Describe your current sense of self. Look at it carefuly. What is it? What is it based on? Where is it?

There is understanding that this self is not located in this body anywhere.
The dense body of thoughts or series of thought commentary about self image or circumstances in life or that self-pity can be thoughts only since it is not permanent and also that subsequent thoughts are able to see that and are able to think about it. If there was a permanent self those things would not disappear.
While trying to observe thoughts it was seen when immersed in thoughts the same could not be observed. Only when released from the train of thoughts the matter could be seen. This shows that there is no 'you' since first there is a series of thoughts and then another thought recollecting. Each happening subsequently, so there is no place for a self.
But these observations cannot be taken to be an advancement of any kind, since still I have not had any real 'looking'. Only mental debates that's all.

I was stuck up on identification of thoughts which after you told was a waste of time, I started seeing inside me for the self. Off course, no answers are coming. I am thinking loudly inside myself- " Come out of this self made prisen', get out of this illusion, sometimes praying. I dont know whether these are effective.

When I look inside, the mind does not allow it to see or search for the self, its too overpowering. The mind is making so many distractions to dilute my desperation to 'come out of this illusion'.

Sometimes I feel I should give myself a jolt or shake myself to come out of this mask.

It feels something should happen or its so near but something should click. Like somebody should clap loudly very near to me, probably that will loosen minds grip on me.

[Olof]

Your close as fuck now man. It seems like you have an intellectual understanding of this. That can be helpful, but you have to be honest all along the way, otherwise, you'll probably get stuck in a hiding self somewhere along the way.

The self cannot release the identification with self. Remember that. You have to kinda "dive in", with both feet, and see what happends.

The entire feeling you have of a self, is it true or untrue? Can you see it as you are the current moment you're experiencing right now instead of a central processor inside the brain?

All you have to do is look. Use the poiners you've got and look at your mind. How does it respond, what does the thoughts say? If you do this you will get it. You cant "solve" this by gathering information, all you need is a little advice and then stare at the mind.

Life plays out on its own, its ONE process. The thoughts are a commentary on what is already happening anyway.

[santosh]

Today looked a lot. I mean looked inside, but cannot break the impenetrable wall.