The Beginnings of It All

[Ilona]

Great work, thank you.

Yes, no separation. All is included, even naming if experiences and getting ideas about what this is.

Seeing that, are you separate from life happening? Are you apart from aliveness?
Is it possible to be separate from life happening?

Tell me how you see free will and choice.

Love.

[SwanPerson30]

Seeing that, are you separate from life happening? Are you apart from aliveness?
Is it possible to be separate from life happening?
there isn't a separateness and I'm not apart from the aliveness.... life is all happening at once there is no separation.

Tell me how you see free will and choice.
This is something I ask myself... it would appear that there is no free will, only the illusion of it due to the action happening before thought overlay... really interesting and almost relieving...and very strange. The cup of tea is being made before "I" choose to make it. There is no choice there... at least, not by any separate entity.
So are things random? Choices are random?

[Ilona]

Good questions, is everything random?
For the answer let’s look in the nature. Is nature random or are there natural laws?
Like if you take a seed of an oak tree, can you expect strawberries to grow? Like when you put a seed in to fertile ground, and give it lots of sun, water and all it needs, is it likely that a strong tree will grow? What if the seed falls into sand and there is no water? See how condition shape the tree, but the seed grows into a tree, and that is given, it’s not random. There are patterns, programs, intelligence.
If you spend some time in nature, observe what is happening. How everything moves, wiggles, how everything is the same aliveness expressed as different forms.
Are you part of that aliveness?
Are thoughts, sensations, feelings part of that one aliveness? Are parts of aliveness random?

write what you notice, and enjoy!

Love.

[SwanPerson30]

I notice some joy about the thought of nature doing it's nature things.

There are natural laws because without them we would live in a very different world...hehe

And so human life will go forward in the way that it does because that's what human life does. What you said about the conditions resonated as well: Human life (an expression of nature) will continue on with respect to the conditions that life is situated in. Tea is being made because there is a history of tea being available, the taste of tea, pleasant sensations around tea, so tea continues to be made. Is that headed in the right direction?

Are you part of that aliveness?
Are thoughts, sensations, feelings part of that one aliveness? Are parts of aliveness random?
Yes! So this body is an expression of aliveness we call human.
Thoughts, sensations, and feelings are part of that aliveness.... parts of aliveness are sometimes random and sometimes not, it just depends on what those parts are. Seeds are sprinkled randomly in the wind is one example(?)

[Ilona]

Nice!
And yet seeds sprinkled in the wind land depending on laws of nature. They don’t go against the wind or in all directions independently of conditions.

What are you noticing these days? Is seeing still strong? Are there doubts, questions?
What looks different in normal everyday life?

Love.

[SwanPerson30]

What looks different.. good question.

Honestly unsure, I still have some short term memory loss from the car accident and days just kind of melt into one another. Weeks go by in a flash. I have noticed the last few days (? maybe a week, maybe 2..) I have been taking better care of myself and my surroundings. Not rushing. Not wanting things to be different necessarily. Very anticlimactic! Which is a great break from the way things usually are.

Doubts and questions.. yes.

Sometimes bypassing is a doubt that comes up. I don't think I do that, but I've definitely tried! "Oh there' s no self to speak of so I can eat/talk/dress/be however I want" even if that means not being the best version of myself I can be. I suppose there is some truth in that.

[Ilona]

Anticlimactic is the word! Yes, it’s not a big boom with flashing lights, rather gentle coming back to peace.

Would you say it is clear what the separate self is? Or is there something else you want to explore?


There is no separate self, so I can do whatever... - that’s a weird statement..
mind comes up wit all kinds of justifications even denial.

There is no separate self, in other words, everything is a happening.
And if it’s happening, it’s here already and that’s what is.
It’s easy to start denying the i, like I don’t exist, there of I can do whatever I want. It’s not like that....this is not about denying anything.

You are here, aware, alive. And experiences are passing by, effortlessly. They arise, they pass, knowing of the experiences is ever here. Seeing that you are not the i concept, you are not a concept opens up freedom to be and experience all that comes up. Does this make sense?

Love.

[SwanPerson30]

Hi Ilona,
I had this written up but apparently forgot to press send:

Yes sort of a weird statement I agree. I was kind of grabbing at straws.

Life is just a happening and I am a part of that happening. That definitely makes sense.

I'm not sure what else to write or ask Ilona. Thank you for your help on this.

It's so crazy in a way but also makes so much sense... all of this is just passing by and so are we. Really takes a load off. Very beautiful.

What to do next?

[Ilona]

In that case I will ask you, are you ready for the final questions? :)
Love.

[SwanPerson30]

YES!

[Ilona]

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it ufully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

[SwanPerson30]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Only a story, never a separate entity. When "I" look, there is no self to be found anywhere.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of a separate self is the story about existence we believe to be true because we are told in so many ways that it is, that a separate self does exist. We spend our whole lives either consciously or unconsciously believing this lie and living our lives around it by feeding it, by deriving meaning from everything that goes on, by viewing ourselves as separate from nature or the natural processes of life, by sincerely believing we have control over our lives in this grand way like we are the conductors of a gran orchestra when really we are more like one of the instruments.
It starts... well it starts before you are born because your parents believe it. And they pass that belief along to you, and since you are a child you don't know any better. It's like the myth of Santa Clause. He's never actually there, it's all pretend. Much like the idea of a separate self. It's never actually there, just a story to make everyone feel better.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Well, while writing this answer, there have been a few chuckles. It's relieving! I was listening to the radio yesterday and everything was just blah blah blah blah but also important... it was like it was two things at once, both totally valid and "real"...like the blah blah blah served a purpose in the sense that radio is how some people communicate. But it was also funny because it was really quite meaningless. The radio is still a radio, boyfriend is still boyfriend, but everything is a little different, only slightly. A quality of brightness almost.
Since we started the dialogue things have become a lot more clear in a lot of ways. The tree in the front yard is still a tree but it's viewed in a different light... it's a focus point (for the moment) on a huge background of experiences when singled out.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Honestly the nature examples. And when it was pointed out that there are certain laws/patterns of nature and we play into those patterns and follow those laws naturally because that's what nature does and humans are part of nature. We are not separate from all of it, just a part of it.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
These are all thought overlays. Decision, intention, free will, and control are already happening but then they are labeled with words to make them idea and concepts that help feed into the idea of a separate self or Do-er. When really, all of these actions flow into each other, they are not separate entities, only singled out and then called something later after they happen. There is no "me" necessarily for any of the things "I" do in the day. Washing the face happens because the routine is there and there is pleasure there. Washing, routine, pleasure, all happening at once. Crying happens because pain is felt. Paining, crying, and feeling is all happening at once. Meaning is added later to tell a story, to keep a story going.
What am I responsible for? Well... sort of a trick question! On one hand, I am responsible for the totality of my life. but
on the other there is no essential me to be responsible at all. So, conventionally I am responsible for everything that I claim responsibility for. But ultimately that is another story, another fairy tale. So how I would answer this is: all the choices, decisions, and intentions that are being made are being done without any need for the story of SwanPerson30 and are not separate from them. "I" eat because the body will die without nourishment and this body is wired to survive. So it eats. What it eats is dependant on different factors like location, access to food, water, the experience of cooking different things, etc. There's no "I" to be responsible for any of that. Again, it's just following the laws or patterns of nature.

6) Anything to add?
All in all, what a puzzle to figure out! All the pieces are they, they just need to be put together.

[Ilona]

Wonderful! Thank you for beautiful expression

Can you tell a bit about relationships? Do you see separate selves in others? Had this seeing any impact on how you relate to your close people?

Love.

[SwanPerson30]

Reflecting, I am unsure if I have applied this to others yet. General populations like the city I live in, yes. My closest people... honestly it didn't even cross my mind until you have mentioned it now. "My" partner (is firstly not mine and second) is also an expression of nature and a collection of movements, sounds, actions, etc that people call <insert username here> and is the same boat. We all are. My teachers and friends and family members are all a collection of impressions or actions (whatever label... a collection of life's patterns). All the strangers on the street too. Everyone, all beings are this way.
THAT is weird. Like the feeling around seeing that is weird. It's true because it can't be anything else, and it's very strange!

[SwanPerson30]

Ilona,

Reflecting on the post I made yesterday:

To see that all beings, people, animals, insects, plants, etc are all void of any suchness, essence, self, etc is what was experienced. We all share that so we're all in the same boat in that sense. The boyfriend takes a sip of water because he is thirsty. No need for a self there. Dog barks because it has been stimulated in some way. No dog self necessary. Things are again just happening.