Helen Legg. Knock knock... Who’s there?

[nemesis]

When you did the exercise, please tell me:

What felt more true?
What was the difference?
Is there an "I", experiencing "things"?

[nemesis]

Hi Helen,

I dont know if you want to continue or not but at the moment I am not able to guide. A few things have been building up since some time ago and yesterday the bottle just exploded.

I will need some time to recover and find the flow again.

If you want to continue, another guide will be there for you. I know, it'd be your third guide in less than a month and I'm sorry. When I accepted you as a client I did not know that in a few days I myself would not be able to guide anymore.

I wish you all the best! 💚

[Legg]

Hello Tom,

Yes I have experienced something, that the perception bit isn’t there, just a clearer experience of sensations 😀

I had a couple of restless nights seemingly caught in a conundrum and then the seeing through of the construct of a perceiver.

I am still reacting emotionally though.
So something’s still remains?..

I haven’t yet done the exercises in a written form here for you to see.
Shall I do that?

Please can we keep the exchange’s quite simple, like not too many questions at the same time, as I easily can get caught up in a bit of overwhelm.

Even when I may be a bit quiet here on the Forum I am still doing the enquiring!

My life has also been very busy, but work now has come to a close for a few weeks as the government have sent me a letter telling me to self isolate for 12 weeks (I have a disability which apparently makes me more vulnerable to this virus).

Although I have signed up for three online courses to keep me engaged...

Hope you are managing ok at this time.

Many thanks,
Helen.

[Legg]

Hi Tom,
I have just realised I have missed a post from you saying you are not going to be my guide anymore!
Sorry to hear this and I wish you all the best 😊
Your guiding has been very helpful.
Many thanks,
Helen.

[barb]

Hi Helen!

My busyness has also calmed down so we can both continue with the request now if you want :)

I am still reacting emotionally though.

Seeing through the illusion does not mean, that emotions will vanish...

Let's have a look at emotions. Do the inquiry only if there is actually an emotion there and not out of memories. Maybe you can generate an emotion. If there is one, for example fear or sadness or whatever, have a closer look at it.
Where and how in the body does it show up? What of it can be felt, and what of it is just thought-content? Let the emotion be there, invite it, look at it with curiosity...

Please tell me what you can find :)

So something’s still remains?..

Can you give me just a small summary where you do stand now since the investigation began? Is there something you want to have a look at? Or should I give you a few experiments to have a closer look at the nature of thought and experience?

I'm looking forward to your answers :)

Much love, Barb

[Legg]

Hi Barb 💖
Ermm maybe let’s do some exercises.
I have definitely made some progress in seeing through the perceiver.
I still don’t know about the decision stuff.
I have found decision making in general very difficult in life.
I can see there are thoughts that seem to offer options and of course the conditions.
I cannot find how decisions are made.

I am in a personal quandary where I want to finish something but I cannot seem to make a decision.
Even when I think I have made a decision something happens and the decision is not followed through.

Like I tried to finish my sports training (I am in team GB for Paralympic air rifle) and sent an email saying that I am stopping but then the head of the programme phoned me and persuaded me otherwise!
It’s a bit frustrating!


Best wishes,
Helen

[barb]

.

Did you have a look at emotions as suggested? Don't let us forget this, maybe there is a key. But we can come back later again if you wish.

Do you expect that emotions will vanish with seeing through the illusion?

Ermm maybe let’s do some exercises.
I have definitely made some progress in seeing through the perceiver.

Wonderful :)

I still don’t know about the decision stuff.
I have found decision making in general very difficult in life.
I can see there are thoughts that seem to offer options and of course the conditions.
I cannot find how decisions are made.

I am in a personal quandary where I want to finish something but I cannot seem to make a decision.
Even when I think I have made a decision something happens and the decision is not followed through.

Very great observation, that's how it is. Most people don't even see this, it's a great milestone to recognize that... :)

Like I tried to finish my sports training (I am in team GB for Paralympic air rifle) and sent an email saying that I am stopping but then the head of the programme phoned me and persuaded me otherwise!
It’s a bit frustrating!

Haha, yes that's possible when this is seen :) Maybe you can exchange frustration with curiosity. Like: Hmh, now I am curious which decision will pop up... and then look and observe...

Let's have a look at this with a simple experiment:

Lift your right or left arm (or leave it down). While lifting or not lifting a decision happens, at least something happens (or not).

Can you find the exact moment of decision and find the concrete essence which seems to make a decision?
Is it really possible to find the moment of decision as well as the apparent "decider"?
Or does the idea "I decided to lift (or not) the right or left arm” emerge only after the actual event?
Decisions happen, but is there a decision-maker necessary for it?

Observe this decision topic in your everyday life. Look at simple choices, e.g. what to eat or drink, what clothes to wear, and maybe the complex ones.
Try to trace the decision back to its source. Is this possible?

Please answer all questions written in bold.

I'm curious how it goes for you :)

[Legg]

Thanks Barb,
I will get on to these exercises tomorrow.
Best wishes,
Helen.

[barb]

Thanks for letting me know :)

[Legg]

Hello Barb,
I have been reflecting on this for a while now this decider/decisions stuff.
I realise somehow I have been undermined my own insight with getting caught on not being able to make decisions.

Can you find the exact moment of decision and find the concrete essence which seems to make a decision?

So I was doing the exercise. The arm was lifting or not lifting. But there’s no moment of deciding to lift or not lift, it just happens from nowhere even the lifting doesn’t seem like anything really.
There isn’t any concrete essence that makes a decision.

Is it really possible to find the moment of decision as well as the apparent "decider"?
Or does the idea "I decided to lift (or not) the right or left arm” emerge only after the actual event?

I have not found any evidence of their being a moment of decision and so I cannot find a decider either.
I am really relieved by this somehow!
The thoughts about lifting or not lifting (if there are any) seem irrelevant to the lifting or not lifting. No connection can be made.
🙂

Try to trace the decision back to its source. Is this possible?

Ha ha - this seems like a beginningless-endless type of question.
No I find the moment where the decision has a source, if I try there just seems to be space.
There were several moments where event’s happened, but no source for the decisions.

Many thanks,
Helen

[barb]

I have not found any evidence of their being a moment of decision and so I cannot find a decider either.
I am really relieved by this somehow!

Great :)

The thoughts about lifting or not lifting (if there are any) seem irrelevant to the lifting or not lifting. No connection can be made.

Good insight...

Try to trace the decision back to its source. Is this possible?

Ha ha - this seems like a beginningless-endless type of question.
No I find the moment where the decision has a source, if I try there just seems to be space.
There were several moments where event’s happened, but no source for the decisions.

Very good!
Keep this in mind and if a decision has to be made again, just try to be curious :)

I guess it would be a great idea to have a look at the nature of thoughts.
Sit quietly for a couple of minutes, breathe slowly and relax. Then begin watching gently the thoughts:

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

2. Can you predict which thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?

Many thanks

It's my pleasure :)

[Legg]

Good day to you Barb,
I am liking the enquiring, thanks 😊

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

Thoughts come from nowhere and go to nowhere but just to clarify nowhere isn’t a place!

2. Can you predict which thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

I cannot predict a thought and can’t stop the thought if I don’t like it (have tried very unsuccessfully over many years to do this so I know this to be true!
There does seem to be great elusiveness to thoughts at times though when trying to find a thought and this can be easily confused with stopping thoughts.

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

No I cannot decide to think for a longer period.
Although being in DE seems to diminish thinking. I am unsure of what leads me to DE. there is no me that decides and yet there seems to be this movement towards DE and yet I cannot find the movement either! it’s just another happening, I have probably been in DE in the past more than I have been aware of, so maybe now I am just noticing DE more. Yet ‘I’ isn’t noticing DE, the sensations are just happening.

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

I wish! But no I cannot only think pleasant thoughts

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

‘I’ seems to come from the place of all the other thoughts, although the ‘I’ thought has so many associated connections of thoughts and ‘I’ seems to like to associate the presence of ‘I’ thoughts with sensations which is actually untrue and there isn’t a link that connects the ‘I’ thought to sensory experience that can be found.
So ‘I’ isn’t a special thought.

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

No a thought cannot think other thoughts

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?

I do not find someone who thinks but only thoughts. I find sensations and thinking but nothing that links the two. And thinking happens without any central controller.

Although I think I need to look further at the idea of control and controller just so see if anything needs to be untangled there.

🙂

Many thanks Barb,

Helen

[barb]

Although being in DE seems to diminish thinking. I am unsure of what leads me to DE. there is no me that decides and yet there seems to be this movement towards DE and yet I cannot find the movement either! it’s just another happening, I have probably been in DE in the past more than I have been aware of, so maybe now I am just noticing DE more. Yet ‘I’ isn’t noticing DE, the sensations are just happening.

Yes absolutely! It is all just a happening :)

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

I wish! But no I cannot only think pleasant thoughts

Is „to wish“ more than just another thought?

I do not find someone who thinks but only thoughts. I find sensations and thinking but nothing that links the two. And thinking happens without any central controller.

Great job - with the thought-experiment in general :)

Although I think I need to look further at the idea of control and controller just so see if anything needs to be untangled there.

Look at breathing: Is there a breather, or just breathing happening?
Look at digestion: Is there a captain who controls it? Or is it just a happening?
While walking: Is there a controller who says how to do it, when which muscle to move? Or does walking just happen?
And what about all the other million processes that take place in the body every minute? Isn't that an absolutely mindblowing mystery?
Look at the wind: Is there someone who controls the wind, who says the wind when to blow? Where do the wind end and the blowing begin? Is there a wind at all, or just blowing happening?

Go ahead to observe movements, actions, apparent choices in your daily life, look if you can find someone who controls it. Is there a captain, a separate entity? Or just happenings?

Much love and enjoy observing :)

[Legg]

Hi Barb,
Just to let you know that I hope to do the exercises tomorrow.
Many thanks.
Helen.

[Legg]

Let's have a look at emotions. Do the inquiry only if there is actually an emotion there and not out of memories. Maybe you can generate an emotion. If there is one, for example fear or sadness or whatever, have a closer look at it.
Where and how in the body does it show up? What of it can be felt, and what of it is just thought-content? Let the emotion be there, invite it, look at it with curiosity...

Hi Barb,
I thought I’d start with this as I realise I had missed it and often my emotions can get me a bit bogged down. Like I have been a bit blocked to doing the work here, it like an unseen resistance going on, weird because I do want to do it!
Sometimes where I am living with a disability it is difficult for me to know whether or not I am genuinely fatigued or if I am emotionally overwhelmed, by emotionally overwhelmed I mean like emotionally stuck or painfully numb. The two seem to be a bit intermeshed in what I experience.
Anyway this continuing covid lockdown is a bit unpleasant as I am still not able to leave the house. Most of the people in the UK are allowed out now but those with certain underlying conditions have to stay in still so I am definitely a bit fed up and lonely ☹️
Just feels unnatural to spend weeks by myself.

Anyway back to the enquiry - thank you

So I have fear going on and sadness, it’s easy to jump to thought away from the sensations here to perpetuate the feelings.
Seems like if I am in direct experience with the feelings then there are just random sensations that may equate to sadness or fear but the sensations themselves are actually quite faceless and almost indescribable and then the sensations I have labelled as emotions go to nothing or lessen.
Emotions (how I currently understand it) from this enquiry stem from thoughts. Like the emotions need the framework of some thoughts as a reference point to be able to label them emotions. As without the labelling there would just be some vague sensations of more or less intensity.

Look at breathing: Is there a breather, or just breathing happening?
Look at digestion: Is there a captain who controls it? Or is it just a happening?
While walking: Is there a controller who says how to do it, when which muscle to move? Or does walking just happen?
And what about all the other million processes that take place in the body every minute? Isn't that an absolutely mindblowing mystery?
Look at the wind: Is there someone who controls the wind, who says the wind when to blow? Where do the wind end and the blowing begin? Is there a wind at all, or just blowing happening?

Go ahead to observe movements, actions, apparent choices in your daily life, look if you can find someone who controls it. Is there a captain, a separate entity? Or just happenings?

Love how it’s written here ‘Is there wind at all, or just blowing’
No nouns just adjectives
Here I can only find happenings with some interjecting random thoughts that I have previously misread as a controller/decider/emoter

Many thanks 😊
Helen.