Unknowing

[VeganAwake]

Awesome is 3:45 your time okay? Is Skype okay..most familiar with it...

Hi Stacy,
Actually does a 4:30 Skype call work?

[Anastacia42]

Skype will work. Calling you now.

[Anastacia42]

Oh wait, I see you said 4:30. Sorry. I was reading this thing WAY too fast.

4:30 my time?

Stacy

[VeganAwake]

Now is perfect...no prob

[Anastacia42]

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Remember to Quote each question, then post an answer below it, one at a time.

Answer every question, please.

Thank you!

[VeganAwake]

How is the movement controlled?

It's Just Happening, no thoughts are needed about it. There isn't anything controlling the movement.

Does a thought control it?

No nothing controls it, it just happens. A thought about eating a piece of pizza can arise and the palm flipping continues (they're not in correlation).

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, not at all( there is nothing else... emptiness) The body does things by itself regardless of a thought about it.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

there is nothing deciding to turn the hand over, the body just does it regardless of a thought. Mind can be still/empty the thought that there is someone doing it can arise. There is no one actually asking a question or asking how, that's the illusion of a separate Doer.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

nothing chose, it just happened. Maybe the body is used to using the left hand more often so that's what happened, and even that is just a story or a thought arising from nothing for no one.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

no, there isn't anyone or anything else choosing, it's an empty happening. The self is a misunderstanding taking credit as a doer.

Thanks Stacy,
❤ Travis

[Anastacia42]

Perfect, Travis.

Would you like to do exercises on Time, Memory and Body before answering Final Questions?

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

Hi again, Travis,

In your initial post you mentioned still feeling some kind of "sense of self." The exercise and explanation below may help. I call what is aware of things happening just "Awareness." Yes, there's Awareness, but this does not mean it is a separate self.

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.
Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought Arising? If not, where is any Direct or Actual Experience of some sense of self?


Check that out and then let me know about Time, Memory and Body. And Final Questions (which you answered verbally yesterday).

Loving,

[VeganAwake]

Hi Stacy..

Does the sense of self have a location?

No it has no location, even if you disassemble the entire body, you would never find anything because nothing was ever there to start.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

no its not a real entity.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

no, communication apparently happens but for no one.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

no, and it's recognized what used to feel like a sense of self was a misidentification with
thoughts feelings and emotions as the 'ME'.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought Arising? If not, where is any Direct or Actual Experience of some sense of self?

there isn't, there is an apparent body here experiencing, but no ME inside of it.

Check that out and then let me know about Time, Memory and Body. And Final Questions (which you answered verbally yesterday).

awesome yes, can we finish up the final questions and then maybe I can get the exercise at a later date...they are really great!!

Thanks Stacy 😃

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure, Travis. Here you go...

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[VeganAwake]

Hi Stacy,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

no, there was never a me or an I. When this was recognized as a misidentification, it was simultaneously recognized there never was a separate character.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a misidentification with feelings thoughts emotions and energy that get created at a young age and builds onto itself as you get older. Other's also reinforce this illusion because they believe they are separate also.

How does it feel to see this?

it felt ordinary and puzzling simultaneously and also a lighter freeing feeling.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

it's been settling in for a while now, but there is a more connected and simultaneously an alone feeling. Over the past few days there has been a much more confident and clear understanding of what has taken place... for a long time there was a lot of confusion about what had taken place and why.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I was burning myself out seeking so hard. I started recognizing I must have missed something. I had remembered hearing it was a turning within and a falling away process. It felt like a surrender and simultaneously knowing I would never give up until it was complete. The weird thing is I didn't even know what was being looked for, but there was a complete confidence that it would be found. There was faith that everything would be just fine.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

there is still a conditioned human body here that prefers coffee over tea or chocolate over vanilla, but there is no one deciding anything or having an intention or agenda. Everything that happens just is what's happening for no one. Free Will and choice happens within the dream of the separate individual, when its recognized there never was an individual it's just happening. Meaning purpose and value are seen as illusory concepts... everything is just an empty happening. Control would suggest there's an apparent somebody here that wants something to turn out a certain way... that is not experienced here any longer, whatever is happening is just innocently happening with no meaning or agenda behind it. Being in the military and a husband and father there are still apparent responsibilities but it isn't personal any longer. There are also still apparent consequences, they just don't mean anything. If I tell my boss to piss off I can get fired and lose my job and my retirement but that really doesn't matter it but just be another apparent happening for no one. If my wife divorces me for sitting on the couch all day on unemployment, that's just what is happening.
Sitting on a couch and eating cookies for the rest of life or becoming the president of the United States makes no difference at all, one is not more valuable than the other. Meaning purpose value Free Will and choice happen within the dream of the individual. It's all perfectly meaningless.

Thanks again Stacy ❤

[VeganAwake]

Hi Stacy,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

no, there was never a me or an I. When this was recognized as a misidentification, it was simultaneously recognized there never was a separate character.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self is a misidentification with feelings thoughts emotions and energy that get created at a young age and builds onto itself as you get older. Other's also reinforce this illusion because they believe they are separate also.

How does it feel to see this?

it felt ordinary and puzzling simultaneously and also a lighter freeing feeling.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

it's been settling in for a while now, but there is a more connected and simultaneously an alone feeling. Over the past few days there has been a much more confident and clear understanding of what has taken place... for a long time there was a lot of confusion about what had taken place and why.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I was burning myself out seeking so hard. I started recognizing I must have missed something. I had remembered hearing it was a turning within and a falling away process. It felt like a surrender and simultaneously knowing I would never give up until it was complete. The weird thing is I didn't even know what was being looked for, but there was a complete confidence that it would be found. There was faith that everything would be just fine.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience

there is still a conditioned human body here that prefers coffee over tea or chocolate over vanilla, but there is no one deciding anything or having an intention or agenda. Everything that happens just is what's happening for no one. Free Will and choice happens within the dream of the separate individual, when its recognized there never was an individual it's just happening. Meaning purpose and value are seen as illusory concepts... everything is just an empty happening. Control would suggest there's an apparent somebody here that wants something to turn out a certain way... that is not experienced here any longer, whatever is happening is just innocently happening with no meaning or agenda behind it. Being in the military and a husband and father there are still apparent responsibilities but it isn't personal any longer. There are also still apparent consequences, they just don't mean anything. If I tell my boss to piss off I can get fired and lose my job and my retirement but that really doesn't matter it but just be another apparent happening for no one. If my wife divorces me for sitting on the couch all day on unemployment, that's just what is happening.
Sitting on a couch and eating cookies for the rest of life or becoming the president of the United States makes no difference at all, one is not more valuable than the other. Meaning purpose value Free Will and choice happen within the dream of the individual. It's all perfectly meaningless.

Thanks again Stacy ❤

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure. Travis!

An awake person in the Navy! That rocks.

I will submit these answers for confirmation. In the meantime. take a look at this:

there is still a conditioned human body here

Is there?

Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.


Loving,

[VeganAwake]

Hi Stacy,

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

wow ...well this is strange, the bodily sensations appear to be Illusions also. Feels like the body's just doing itself and something here is identifying with it.. just when I thought it couldn't get any weirder LOL. Those are very powerful exercises thank you Stacy!

😃 Travis,

[Anastacia42]

Ayup. (Southern accent)

Let's do one more on Body, for fun. Then we'll look at time, while we wait to see whether anyone has more questions about your answers.

Deeper Body Investigation

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen.

Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?

Have fun!