Looking for some help please

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)

No worries, I'll rephrase the question so that it's easier for you to
tackle it.


What is "energy" in direct experience?


I'll be out of town for and won't be able to make a reply.
I'll be back on weekend, so please observe according to the question above.


Regards,


Bananafish

[Lindylou]

Hi :) and thank you

What is "energy" in direct experience?

So...thought....can only happen "in" the body when there is a brain.

Seeing, feeling, sensation, hearing etc are only experienced alive, not dead (big presumption here!)

There is direct experience in the dream state - thoughts, emotions, seeing etc. Again, assuming this would cease (in this experiencd of this body) after death.

So energy appears to be like plugging a light into a socket - it doesn't work without electricity - and the body doesn't work/function/have thought/direct experience without energy (aliveness).

Although there may be thought and direct experience in the transition after death - before we are returned to the ocean so to speak.

[Lindylou]

Energy is there/here/wherever whether there is any direct experience going on or not. It is prior to direct experience, it is 'present' during direct experience and it is there after direct experience and during sleep and after death. Energy doesn't die, only the body dies

[Lindylou]

Energy/consciousness is 'using' the body to experience the world as a human

[Bananafish]

Hi: :)

Could you express it in fewer words?

WHAT is "energy" in direct experience? (Not how it works, what it does or where it is, but what is it?)

[Lindylou]

Hi :)

WHAT is "energy" in direct experience? (Not how it works, what it does or where it is, but what is it?)

It what is there all the time and remains unchanged by direct experience. A natural electrical current that runs through everything

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)

It all still seems to be a mere theory.


Back to the question of what is doing the typing (or walking, eating, etc.),
is it the "electrical current" you're referring to that is doing it?

Please observe and tell the process of "electrical current" moving the fingers.

[Lindylou]

Hi :)

Back to the question of what is doing the typing (or walking, eating, etc.), is it the "electrical current" you're referring to that is doing it?

Please observe and tell the process of "electrical current" moving the fingers.

The electrical current or energy isn't moving the fingers - though without it fingers won't move (ie dead body). You asked what it is, I don't know how to describe something I can't hear see feel etc (though I know exists) other than theorizing.

What is doing stuff is coordinated body mind movement. Fingers are moved by first a thought (what to say/write) and then impulses to translate that thought into written word. Mind has been educated to understand a code for communication, body is coordinated to move to each letter to achieve desired communication

[Bananafish]

Hi again. :)

What would you say without any theorization?

What moves the finger?

[Bananafish]

I know it sounds like I'm asking the impossible.

Please take your time to see if it's really impossible.
What would you say? How would you describe?

[Lindylou]

Hi :)

Yes it feels impossible

What would you say without any theorization?

What moves the finger?

Ok if I cant theorize I'll go with what I know. Typing is something that's learned. It's a phone I've had for years. So typing just happens automatically (triggered by thought?) but with little conscious effort.

If I was typing in Spanish with a different phone I might have to use a different part of the brain/making more of a conscious effort - but the process is still happening of its own accord.

When asleep I couldn't type this message but the body could move in response to the dream state or turn over in the middle of the night without waking so conscious thought /being awake is not required to move the body.

A new born baby moves it's hand, there is no conscious effort and no thought, it's just experiencing the hand moving. It just wants to move it's hand and the hand moves. There is no difference with that new born baby and me typing, except that as an adult i am programmed (including how to type and understand language).

Please take your time to see if it's really impossible.
What would you say? How would you describe?

All that's left, and I apologise for this appearing as more theorizing but is a process of deduction not different? is that it's consciousness. Consciousness is the driver of the human body, is doing/experiencing everything. An analogy is when I get in a car to drive it, the car axle turns but it's me turning the steering wheel

Sorry I appear to have done what you asked me not to but I feel like I'm in a blind alley nowhere to turn

[Bananafish]

Hi Lynne. :)

No need for apologies ... we'll stick to it until it's crystal clear!

Now, if you were to give another name to what you call consciousness,
what would it be?

Is "consciousness" separate from the doing and experiencing?

[Lindylou]

Hi :)

Thank you

Now, if you were to give another name to what you call consciousness, what would it be?

Awareness, intelligence

Is "consciousness" separate from the doing and experiencing?

It feels like its different layers of the same onion

[Bananafish]

Hi: :)

It feels like its different layers of the same onion

Could you elaborate?

[Lindylou]

Hi :)

"It feels like its different layers of the same onion". Could you elaborate?

The doing is one layer. Then a step back is the experiencing of the doing. Maybe they're the same level/layer, I'm not sure. Then a step back is noticing of the doing and experiencing. This seems to have some 'personal' characteristic associated with this body. Then a further step back is being which feels no attachment to a body, that seems to be beyond the body, not limited by the body. In and out of the body at the same time.