Freedom

[Bananafish]

:)

Would you say you are crystal clear
that you experientially know that
there is no separate, concrete entity
limited in time-space called self?

[Katydidnext]

What I know experientially is that whenever I look for me or self, there is nothing there but I still react to situations as if I believe there is a self. That is I get defensive even though I know there is nothing to defend really.
When I look for self it is like diving into a lake - a bottomless lake!

[Bananafish]

:)


Yes, it's like a habit to react as if there is something to react and
something to be reacted.


When reaction occurs, look at it and see what it is that's reacting.
You'll soon get used to it, and it merges with your ordinary, everyday life.

Try it, please.



(Oh and I really liked the lake metaphor ... :))




Now, do you have anything you want to investigate further,
or do you want to proceed to the final set of questions?



Can you give a big fat YES if I ask you whether you've
seen that there is no separate entity called "self?"

[Katydidnext]

I have been looking at my reactions and what is reacting - well it is just habits I think, tendencies that are still playing out. Sometimes I can ask myself what is reacting and it simply disperses and I am left smiling at the mind's antics.
Othertimes I seem more caught up in the reaction and it is hard to stop it. Afterwards, I am wondering what the fuss was about but the habits are linked to my views of others and old views of myself - no longer valid.

It is a big fat YES that I have seen there is not a separate entity called "self"

I am happy to proceed to the final set of questions

warm thanks
Katy

[Bananafish]

:) I can’t help smiling, Katy.


Here are the questions:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Enjoy!

[Katydidnext]

Hi Bananafish,
Well, what a challenging set of questions!
here is my response:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no separate entity of self anywhere in any shape or form . There never has been a separate self.
There is awarenes which is simply experiencing. I have tried to appropriate it and call it "me" & "mine"

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion is that I think I am a separate being which experiences situations as if I am not part of that experience. We think there is a concrete, independent entity (with a name and history) which experiences things happening to it. We think there is a separate experiencer which is experiencing instead of just experiences (without a subject/object divide).
What I see now is that a sense of self arises when there is emotional or cognitive resistence to a situation. I then identify with the feeling or thought and then add a storyline to "explain"the experience. I now see "me" as simply experiencing.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels liberating. I have a profound sense of letting go.....something has shifted. A feeling of lightness ,tenderness, more clarity and sensitivity. Also in relation to others a feeling of more openess and sensitivity to them too.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

It was the ? "Is it limited by space or time, separate from everything?" the word separate unlocked something in me and I suddenly saw that I wasn't separate to my experince - sounds daft that I thought I was now!


5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

We think we can control life and that the world can be as we want it (also that we are at the centre of something).
We think we have free will and can independently choose/decide what to do. This is illusion.
For example, I recently went out for a meal with friends. My intention was to have no expectations of my friends nor of how the evening would go. I found that it was a difficult situation and decided that I needed to leave as soon as I could.

I think that I made that decision to leave but when I look at the process - how it worked - I see that a feeling of boredom arose, followed by feeling not connected to the others, not interested in topics of conversation - there was a strong emotional push - to go- strong aversion - views arose and my reaction was to say I was leaving now.

My intention was blown out of the water by habitual thought and emotions about this particular group of people and self views

What am I responsible for? I think I am responsible for acting ethically and wisely in any situation.
How? By being aware as much as possible of my own habits and tendencies and seeing how they arise/appear and play out. By not "owning" these as part of a self identity. By freeing myself from self identity.


6) Anything to add?
wow - freedom from self identity !!

Thankyou xxx

[Bananafish]

Hi Katy. :) Thank you for the beautiful answers!

I'm currently showing this post to other guides to ask for questions
regarding our dialogue.


Please wait till I write the next post.


Best regards,

Bananafish

[Katydidnext]

Hello Bananafish,
OK, thanks for letting me know
warm regards
Katy

[Bananafish]

Hello Katy. :)


Based on phrasing like, one of the guides
have questions to ask. Please answer them
in your next post.


"I have tried to appropriate it and call it "me" & "mine",
and
"I have a profound sense of letting go.....something has shifted. A feeling of lightness ,tenderness, more clarity and sensitivity. Also in relation to others a feeling of more openess and sensitivity to them too.",


Questions:
What has tried to appropriate it?
What has a profound sense of letting go?


Warm regards,

Bananafish

[Bananafish]

Hi Katy. :)

How are things?

[Katydidnext]

Hello Bananafish,

I don't know....
In answer to the 2 questios posted below:

I have tried to appropriate it and call it "me" & "mine",
and
"I have a profound sense of letting go.....something has shifted. A feeling of lightness ,tenderness, more clarity and sensitivity. Also in relation to others a feeling of more openess and sensitivity to them too.",


Questions:
1.What has tried to appropriate it?
2.What has a profound sense of letting go?

1. I think that I meant the ego-mind has tried to appropriate awareness and call it "me". I think I have had a view that awareness is bigger than an individual and that it connects all human beings and that my ego-mind was part of this. However when I look I can't see any divide between the two -in fact there isn't two. So what to make of that? Is there nothing more than individual conscuiosness or awareness? I don't know.

2. Maybe it is more of a sense of relief - not holding onto something. I feel more distant from everything ( I mean from people, situations, views).It feels like the centre is not there. I am not sure of anything at the moment.

warm regards
Katy

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)


Thanks for the reply.


If you are to give another name to
“consciousness” or “awareness,”
what would that be?


After giving a name to it,
please describe it in details.


What qualities does it have?

[Katydidnext]

If I gave awareness another name it would be presence, but maybe this is just a label too. It is a sense of aliveness, of life itself.
It has the qualities of aliveness, energy, of knowingness - a nonconceptual knowing. Also the quality of acceptance, in the sense of accepting all experiences without judgement, without thought. Also a flavour of benign energy. A sense of clarity too. warmth, gentleness, all is right with the universe and a connection with the universe.

warm regards
Katy

[Bananafish]

Thanks. :)

Is it something different from the
universe itself?

What is the relationship between
it and the trees, birds, train, and
the people you meet?

[Katydidnext]

No nothing different from the universe itself.
We are all in relationship and part of the same thing - nothing is essentially separate
We come from and are part of the universe (in daily life)

Katy