Help Me Please!!

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

As far as intellectual understanding, the thought story says there is no intellectual understanding and the thought story has many questions, all of which to continue the illusion.

Could you please tell a bit more about this?

Is there still some search?
Did you find what you came for to LU?
Are you satisfied with the investigation?

Vivien

[Brenda]

Could you please tell a bit more about this?

Is there still some search?
Did you find what you came for to LU?
Are you satisfied with the investigation?

there is nothing more to say. There are really no more questions, as it is seen questions are just part of the illusion.
There is definitely no more search. There is no interest to read any of the spiritual quotes and emails that appear daily.
To answer if I found what I was looking for cannot be answered as there were to many expectations that obviously could not be fulfilled as they are were based on illusion. But there is satisfaction and freedom in what was found.
Thank you.

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

How’s does it FEEL to see that the Brenda is just an illusion?

What has changed in normal everyday experience since the start of this conversation?

What hasn’t changed?

What is the main difference?

Vivien

[Brenda]

Hi Vivian,
Hope things are well!!

How’s does it FEEL to see that the Brenda is just an illusion?

It feels disappointing to see that the Brenda is just an illusion and it shook up many core beliefs that are slowly dissolving.

What has changed in normal everyday experience since the start of this conversation?

Nothing has changed in normal everyday experience.There is still family, friends, work and play.
There are less arguments with others as it is seen that they are also part of the illusion.
There is no seeking as there is nothing to seek.
Questions have diminished as they are seen as part of the illusion.
There is no need to be needed or appreciated as they are part of the illusion.
The list goes on and on.
Something happens and thoughts like these arise, they are noticed, and then dissolve. It is seen that they are just part of the story, and nothing more.

What hasn’t changed?

Daily activities have not changed. The calendar still gets filled up with tasks and events to be done.
Floors still get swept, dog gets walked, dishes are still washed, this all still happens.

What is the main difference?

The difference between the belief that there is an "I" and there is not an "I", is the time spent in illusion.
Thought stories are shorter, and sensations and thoughts are seen more often.
Speculation has decreased and emotions occur less frequently.


- Brenda

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

It feels disappointing to see that the Brenda is just an illusion and it shook up many core beliefs that are slowly dissolving.

Disappointing? For who?
Who is disappointed that Brenda is just an illusion?

The difference between the belief that there is an "I" and there is not an "I", is the time spent in illusion.

Are you saying that the difference between believing in the self and seeing that the self is just an illusion is simply the amount of time spend in the illusion?

So seeing no self is about how much time is spent in illusion? Or is it something else?

And btw, who/what is spending time in the illusion?

Vivien

[Brenda]

Disappointing? For who?
Who is disappointed that Brenda is just an illusion?

When you ask how does it "feel" to not have Brenda, the feeling was disappointing.
So how was "disappointing{ felt? There was a sensation that was described in a thought as disappointed. there is no "feeler" anywhere, the feeling of disappointing was just the contents of the thought. The next thought says this feeling is part of the thought story. So to answer the question, there is no "WHO" that feels disappointed, only a thought saying so.

Are you saying that the difference between believing in the self and seeing that the self is just an illusion is simply the amount of time spend in the illusion?

So seeing no self is about how much time is spent in illusion? Or is it something else?

That was the first thought that appeared. There is not much focus on thoughts, seeing that they are just an illusion. The thoughts appear and disappear quicker.
It is also noticed that my body does not do the experiencing, but the sensations of the body are experienced.
Like the sensation of walking is not the body experiencing walking, but the body being walked, if this makes sense.
The sensations that are experienced through the body are also not "my" sensations, but just sensations experienced.
Boundaries are seen differently. It is not as obvious where the end of my foot and the beginning of the shoe is, etc.

And btw, who/what is spending time in the illusion?

What is spending time in the illusion? Great question. It is noticed that sensations and thoughts arise, sometimes more thoughts arise creating a story, until the next sensation is noticed. Seeing the story as an illusion, focus shifts to the next sensation.

These questions are a great way to look deeper into the experience.
Thank you so much!!!

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

When you ask how does it "feel" to not have Brenda, the feeling was disappointing.

And what’s the disappointment about? What is disappointing about seeing that the self is just an illusion?

Maybe there is something ought to change, is supposed to change, hence the disappointment?

The next thought says this feeling is part of the thought story. So to answer the question, there is no "WHO" that feels disappointed, only a thought saying so.

“The next thought says” – so your replies are coming from thoughts?
Have you actually searched for the one that is disappointed? Or you just wrote down what thoughts say?

It is also noticed that my body does not do the experiencing, but the sensations of the body are experienced.
Like the sensation of walking is not the body experiencing walking, but the body being walked, if this makes sense.
The sensations that are experienced through the body are also not "my" sensations, but just sensations experienced.

And what is experiencing the body and sensations?

What is spending time in the illusion? Great question. It is noticed that sensations and thoughts arise, sometimes more thoughts arise creating a story, until the next sensation is noticed. Seeing the story as an illusion, focus shifts to the next sensation.

From this reply it’s not clear if you actually SEARCH FOR the one that is spending time in illusion.
So did you actually SEARCHED FOR it?

Can you clearly SEE experientially that there is nothing/no one spending time in the illusion?

Vivien

[Brenda]

And what’s the disappointment about? What is disappointing about seeing that the self is just an illusion?

Maybe there is something ought to change, is supposed to change, hence the disappointment?

This is an expectation. An expectation of how things were expected to be. Nothing needs to change. Things are perfect just as they are.

“The next thought says” – so your replies are coming from thoughts?
Have you actually searched for the one that is disappointed? Or you just wrote down what thoughts say?

You are right. looking happened but focus was on the thought, the illusion.

And what is experiencing the body and sensations?

There is nothing experiencing the body and the sensations, they are just experienced

So did you actually SEARCHED FOR it?

yes

Can you clearly SEE experientially that there is nothing/no one spending time in the illusion?

Occasionally the thought story is focussed on longer, but it is seen that nobody is spending time there.

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

This is an expectation. An expectation of how things were expected to be. Nothing needs to change. Things are perfect just as they are.

So seeing that the self is just an illusion is only about disappointment, and no other feelings? Nothing else, just disappointment?

Vivien

[Brenda]

So seeing that the self is just an illusion is only about disappointment, and no other feelings? Nothing else, just disappointment?

Everybody has different experiences when seeing the "I" does not exist.
It is seen that feelings are labelled in thoughts which are just an illusion.
It is noticed that everything that was known is just a belief, and these beliefs are what makes the "I" feel real.

Deep looking shows that there is now a belief created that there is no “I” and so there are times this is not seen experientially and other times it is very clear.

It is seen that without the "I", there is no ownership of anything, no doer. Various experiences and emotions arise, both "good" and "bad", but they are just that - experience.

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

Thank you for your responses. Here are some questions I asked before, but please reply to them as if this were the first time seeing them.

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Vivien

[Brenda]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

It is seen that there is no “I” no doer, no self anywhere. There was a belief that there was an “I” but is seen that this too was an illusion.
When deep looking it is clearly seen that everything is happening automatically, with out any input from anybody.
As looking happens, only the now can be seen. “Was there ever” can only be seen in a thought, which is the illusion, not in actual experience.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self is created by thought and only appears “real” within the thought.
It starts when attention is focused on a thought. Thoughts label sensations and say “I” is the owner of everything that happens. For example, “I walked”, instead of just walking, or my desk, instead of just desk.
In experience, thoughts still arise, but they appear as empty thoughts, just knowing there is a thought, or attention isn’t focused on them. Once a thought is noticed, another thought arises adding to the thought story, hence the illusion.
As a sensation is focused on, a thought labels the sensation, and another thought may appear saying how this relates to something in the past or the future, but again they are just thoughts.
As soon as the thought appears, the thought story is already in the past, as the sensation already happened.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It was a slow process, many layers of removing beliefs that are no longer needed, and never true to begin with. This process continues. Beliefs come up, and they are seen for what they are and released. More laughter and free-ness is seen, and clarity.
It is noticed how thoughts with different patterns appear. For example, any desires that arise for attention, or affection, etc are clearly just thoughts, an illusion.
It is seen how the body is being walked, how people are interacting so naturally, how things are just done, with no thought involved.
It is noticed how as emotion arises attention is focused on it, instead of resistance and are released.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

The need to end the seeking made deep looking start.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Decision, intention, free will, choice and control are all thoughts, and nothing more.
There is not anything that “makes” things happen. Everything is happening in perfect unison.
There are sensations and thoughts that are triggered based on where focus is placed.
Sensation and thoughts do not appear from anywhere. There is no choice or intention that anybody is doing, It is really not complicated.


Example, There is a sensation of sound. A thought arises, labelling the sound as a lawn mower. Another thought appears saying it is very loud, you should close the window, It is noticed the window being closed. ( There was no choice or decision, it just happened and was noticed). A thought appears “you should experience the sound”, Attention goes to the sound. An image is noticed. A thought appears “It is a caterpillar”. Another thought appears “It is looking for a place for a cocoon”. Sensation is noticed. Thought arises “listen to the sound”, and on and on.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

There is nobody to be responsible for anything.
If thoughts are focused on, the story is that “I” is responsible for doing something or saying something, but this is the illusion. When everything flows freely and by design there is nothing for anybody to be responsible for. It is only a thought.

As in the example above. If the thought was “believed”, the “I” would think they were responsible to close the window. As it is seen, the window was closed with nobody being responsible for it. It is just done.
Thoughts say “I” is owner of everything, the doer, the thinker, etc, but if the thought did not appear, the window would have been closed anyway.

[Vivien]

Hi Brenda,

Previously you wrote:

Deep looking shows that there is now a belief created that there is no “I” and so there are times this is not seen experientially and other times it is very clear.

Seeing that the self is just an illusion is intellectual understanding or a visceral one?

It is seen that without the "I", there is no ownership of anything, no doer. Various experiences and emotions arise, both "good" and "bad", but they are just that - experience.

And when there is the thought of ‘I’ is there an ownership or a doer?

It is noticed that everything that was known is just a belief, and these beliefs are what makes the "I" feel real.

And how does a belief making the ‘I’ feel real?

Can an ‘I’ be felt?

Where and how is it felt that the ‘I’ is real?

Vivien

[Brenda]

Seeing that the self is just an illusion is intellectual understanding or a visceral one?

It is seen that the "I" is an illusion.

And when there is the thought of ‘I’ is there an ownership or a doer?

Only in thought does a doer exist. It is clear there is no doer.

And how does a belief making the ‘I’ feel real?

The belief is the "I" is real. This is only a belief, a thought, an illusion. The "I" is not felt.

Can an ‘I’ be felt?

The "I" cannot be felt. It is only in thought, fantasy.

Where and how is it felt that the ‘I’ is real?

The "I" is contained within thought. It is not felt that the "I" is real except in fantasy.

Everyday is clearer that there is no "I".

[Vivien]

Dear Brenda,

Everyday is clearer that there is no "I".

It’s good to hear that :)

I can see from your replies there has been a shift in clarity, but now this clarity needs to be brought down from the head to the heart, so to speak. Not just to know this realization, but also to deeply feel it, to live it with your whole being.

So what I would like to ask you is to observe and especially FEEL what is happening in the body in your everyday life. To see, if this understanding have an impact on a deeper, visceral level.

So every time when it’s seen that the ‘I’ is an illusion, please don’t stop there… but go deeper and deeper into feeling it.

So please write about your everyday life, by focusing on emotions and feelings and how this seeing affects your whole beingness.

Vivien