Here we go...

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forgetmenot
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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:32 am

Hello Raven,
Crikey, it’s just a massive loop. Ahhhhhhh...
There will be many questions that go unanswered in this exploration. This exploration is simply about realising that the self you think you are, isn’t you. This is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be questions that want answering and there will be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, and just like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that still need undoing

Here is a dream analogy of how all time is contained in an instant, and it can be likened to the time story of a Ravenself.
In the opening instant of a dream you find the 1st person dream character speeding along a highway towards the airport, because he is late for his holiday flight, because his wife couldn't find her passport.
Now you will notice that this is just the opening instant of the dream, yet it contains a whole "history" of being a person who is an adult and is married to a woman who left her passport behind, etc. It contains "memories" of having the drama with the lost passport, and it has a whole imaginary future too, in the flight and the holiday.
Do you see the analogy that is being drawn?

And let’s look at the idea of the body being in a past!

Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?

Do that for today and report back what you find.


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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RavenMed19
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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:01 am

There will be many questions that go unanswered in this exploration.
Makes total sense - but it was worth a go! It was actually really helpful to write all that out - I had some new ah-has - so I’m glad the absence of me went for it.

May or may not get to the next exercise and post tomorrow... if not, the next day, but we’ll see.

Thanks Kay!

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Hi, Kay. Hope "yesterday" treated you well! I, for one, am glad it's Friday even though that doesn't mean anything really... outside of maybe a movie and takeout and a glass of wine!
There will still be questions that want answering and there will be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, and just like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that still need undoing.
Thought about this a bit: unanswered questions / rugs unraveled. In part there was a feeling of… yes, relief, let’s unravel this sucker all the way down. Booyah! At the same time, there was a feeling of… yeah, but, if no more questions were answered and if there was no more unraveling or un-knotting or pattern-clearing, that's just as okay. Rugs and knots and patterns are all just thought anyway—what is there to unravel?—but, yeah, I guess they seem to be “there” until they are seen through. I’m 47 now (which means absolutely nothing, I realize, what a thought concept: age!) but I have been “doing the work” for long enough to accept/wonder if maybe certain things just are. Does RavenSelf come with certain patterns/knots/whathaveyou that may never completely unravel? Maybe so. In which case, so be it. I'm done fighting. It doesn’t/can’t change the truth of what’s herenow, anyway, so whatever the ride brings I guess!
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
I might be misunderstanding this question, not sure, but I think the short answer is: this is the only time I’ve been aware of these exact colors/story. Thought says I’ve seen this particular body before but it also says this body and its colors (like color of “clothing” for example) is different from the colors I saw yesterday.

Longer answer: this exercise made me laugh, at times. Looking in the mirror, thought said: not bad – cutting out vino during the week is working… less pudge around the middle, looking a bit leaner. (And thought says: “this is good!”) So, thought concludes: this “body” / imagecolor looks different/better from how it looked a few weeks ago. Then, I saw myself as a child, realizing this story of the body, wow… how thought creates a history of “body,” a timeline, to back up and reinforce the SelfStory. But, in reality, I can’t know anything other than what’s happening here, now – so the timeline collapses and there is just now. This, appearing exactly how it is. Magic.
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
In actual experience, no. When I turn to thought, I can find what it calls “previous appearances”/mental images. But only in thought can those be found and since the content of thought is fiction, it can’t actually be known that the body has appeared before. The only thing that can be known is what’s happening now -- now can’t be separated from itself into what thought calls yesterday.
Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?[/quote
Yes.


IN GRATITUDE 🙏,
Raven

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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:40 pm

Hey Raven,
Thought about this a bit: unanswered questions / rugs unraveled. In part there was a feeling of… yes, relief, let’s unravel this sucker all the way down. Booyah! At the same time, there was a feeling of… yeah, but, if no more questions were answered and if there was no more unraveling or un-knotting or pattern-clearing, that's just as okay. Rugs and knots and patterns are all just thought anyway—what is there to unravel?—but, yeah, I guess they seem to be “there” until they are seen through. I’m 47 now (which means absolutely nothing, I realize, what a thought concept: age!) but I have been “doing the work” for long enough to accept/wonder if maybe certain things just are. Does RavenSelf come with certain patterns/knots/whathaveyou that may never completely unravel? Maybe so. In which case, so be it. I'm done fighting. It doesn’t/can’t change the truth of what’s herenow, anyway, so whatever the ride brings I guess!
You got it! Undoing knots happens until it doesn’t. That is simply what is happening. This is a dream of duality, so the idea of reaching some sort of idyllic life as a perfect person is a dream in itself lol and is an unachievable destination. Emotions continue to arise and subside, life continues to happen. The idea that something should be different is what creates suffering.
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?
I might be misunderstanding this question, not sure, but I think the short answer is: this is the only time I’ve been aware of these exact colors/story. Thought says I’ve seen this particular body before but it also says this body and its colors (like color of “clothing” for example) is different from the colors I saw yesterday.
Lovely, yes.
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
In actual experience, no. When I turn to thought, I can find what it calls “previous appearances”/mental images. But only in thought can those be found and since the content of thought is fiction, it can’t actually be known that the body has appeared before. The only thing that can be known is what’s happening now -- now can’t be separated from itself into what thought calls yesterday.
“now can’t be separated from itself into what thought calls yesterday”….beautifully expressed :)

Okay, time for a check in to see where we are at.

Can you say with 100% certainty that you have realised that there is no separate self as it is thought to be?

If so, how does it feel to realise this?

Can you pinpoint when exactly you felt the shift when realisation happened, and how the shift itself was felt?

Has anything changed? And what hasn’t changed?

What is the main difference, if any, from before this exploration started?

Is seeking still going on?

Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:08 pm

Howdy, Kay.
Undoing knots happens until it doesn’t. That is simply what is happening.
Yes. I think the exact words that came up for me when I thought of further un-knotting and de-patterning were: F* THAT! No mas! Ha, not that I’m not open to it, if need be: of course I am. But, this acceptance piece, accepting certain thought patterns/emotions, letting them be, seeing them as passing weather that may or may not ever completely go away, I’ve been much more understanding of this over the past year or so… after way too many years of not being understanding of it!!
Can you say with 100% certainty that you have realised that there is no separate self as it is thought to be?
Yes
If so, how does it feel to realise this?
It feels like fireworks and a peaceful day at the lake.
Can you pinpoint when exactly you felt the shift when realisation happened, and how the shift itself was felt?
There have been many shifts over the years, I suppose, but I think all of those were somehow precursors to these recent shifts (of course, there is no time, so technically all shifts happen/ed now, but you get what I mean!). It started a couple months ago with an admission of surrender/ declaration that I’m done trying to bend life to “my” will. I’m going to let go and enjoy life, come what may: patterns, no patterns, more understanding, no more understanding, shit storms or no shit storms. It felt like a “Copernican Revolution” of sorts… as opposed to life revolving around what I knew was a false “I” / RavenSelf (the Self at the center of the universe, like the earth at the center of the universe), it was time to flip the script and let capital-L Life take the lead. Or, maybe, capital-F Flow. In the ensuing weeks after this, I felt deliriously happy – deep relief at the core of my being. There was no more fear or worry or anxiety about the big stuff anymore. Sure, I still had emo and thought patterns show up, etc., but in the bigger scheme of things, there was that deeper level of trust, I knew it would all work out, even if it didn’t. Who cares. Enough fighting/searching.

HOWEVER: the understanding of there being no separate self – though I might have said at the time I was certain about it, clearly I wasn’t. It was still more intellectual than realized. Enter LU/Kay (affectionately nicknamed: “The Hammer” lol). Throughout this process, there have been so many mind-blowing shifts… realizing “I” don’t create my thoughts, seeing that emotion is simply a somewhat neutral sensation with a whole bunch of thought piled on top, finding that “I” haven’t made a single decision in my entire life (WTF?!), that everything is going on automatic, there has never been a “me” there orchestrating anything, to, of course, ultimately truly seeing (not just thinking) – maybe for the first time - what’s actually here. This is ALL there is, always here and now, appearing exactly as it is… and this expression called “RavenSelf” is simply a part of that incredible energetic flow. All one. How could everything not seem miraculous at this point? And I’m not talking about what might be considered the classic-ly beautiful things of nature like wind and crickets and trees. But toothbrush, socks, computer, body, the illusory self… ALL OF IT: the same magic! What an incredible illusion, wow. Awe.

So, there have been many moments/a-has – and, even physically, a lot of energy coming into the body at times, like an electrical socket (and a bunch of snake dreams) – but, looking out the window, watching the wind rustle the trees and knowing, not just thinking, that there are no boundaries between “wind” and “this that ‘I’ am” is a very humbling, incredible feeling. And I’m so grateful to you for pointing me to this.
Has anything changed? And what hasn’t changed?
Yes and no / everything and nothing. Though I’ve gone through what I might call “big shifts” before and felt like there was ultimately some kind of “regression” afterwards (which, of course, was only just thought! What is “regression”? No such thing.), I don’t think what I’ve seen now can be unseen. As long as I have ears to hear, senses to feel, a nose to smell, eyes to see, fingers to touch, thoughts thinking, etc. – it is always right here, literally in front of my face. Not even that, so much closer than that. It is my face, lol! It is all. This, here, now, all day, every day, no beginning, no end. Everywhere/nowhere. All I have to do is look. (And the looking, I imagine, will always need to continue because the illusion is so compelling/strong.) So, in this sense, everything has changed as there is no longer a “me” looking “out there” at these things – or even “up there” to the heavens (and thank you for that smack down). There is a sense of being fully grounded on/inextricably part of this earth experience, as experience itself, no separation.

What hasn’t changed is that I don’t expect RavenSelf to somehow be magically transformed into a flawless representation of human or for the illusory self not to be there or for life to flow perfectly. For example, just the other night on the same day I had an incredible realization, I woke up at 3am to pee and whirl, whirl, whirl went thought on total overdrive, keeping me up for a while. This doesn’t happens as much as it used to, depends on what’s going on, but it's for sure part of what happens for me. For years, I got so upset by this: omg, what’s wrong with me; will I ever find peace?; will I always be plagued by this?; I’m a big fat spiritual failure! I’ll never get it!. Over the past year or so, or maybe a little longer than that, that thought commentary doesn’t happen anymore. So what if thought keeps me up sometimes? – BFD – coffee cures all ills, lol. Maybe it’s just how Raven is wired, maybe there’s absolutely nothing I’m doing to create this, maybe it’s just part of the experience and always will be, I don’t know. Yin/yang, ups/down, pain/joy… all of it just weather. And passing weather has nothing to do with the truth of what always is. Period.
What is the main difference, if any, from before this exploration started?
A knowing that there is absolutely no way to not be in the now. This is impossible. “Being in the moment” is not something that “a person” “does” – it is all there is, always herenow. Also: just an excitement to see what happens next, what continues to unfold.
Is seeking still going on?
No.
Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?
I don’t think there’s anything I’m unclear about, so to speak. There may be further exploration I want to do at some point after this process around sensation/”emotion,” just playing around with that, maybe. And also some remaining curiosity around decision making. If there is no “I” making decisions – which I am clear on – why does the link between thought content and the decision/action seem so causal (like the murderer’s abusive childhood, the certain thoughts this generates, and the act/decision to murder)? Ultimately, I know any so-called answers to this question are likely to be more ideas/theory/thought – it cannot be known. So, if there is never additional clarity on this one, it doesn't matter, I’m fine with it. Just seems like something I could explore a little deeper, but - as you pointed out - this goes beyond the scope of the exploration here at LU and I get that!

Love and immense gratitude,
Raven

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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:53 am

Hello Raven,
Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?
I don’t think there’s anything I’m unclear about, so to speak. There may be further exploration I want to do at some point after this process around sensation/”emotion,” just playing around with that, maybe.
What do you want to look at here, any particular emotion? Let’s look at anxiety as an example, or replace 'anxiety' with an emotion that is appearing.

When ‘anxiety’ appears, close your eyes and do the following:

1) Look at the label/thought ‘anxiety’ itself. See the label/word ‘anxiety’ as a typewritten word in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead

Does the label ‘anxiety’ know anything about anxiety, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘anxiety’ itself anxious?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is anxious?


2) Then look at the sensation and ignore everything else but the sensation itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘anxiety’.

Look and see if the sensation itself is the anxious self. If the words ‘yes’ , or ‘yes, this is the self’ appears, go back to Step 1 and see the words across the forehead and repeat step 1.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is 'anxiety' or that it is anxious?
Can you find anyone or anything within or behind the sensation that is 'anxious'?


If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is anxious, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is anxious as you did in step 1.

3) Look at the mental image/outline labelled body.

Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘anxiety’?
Can you find anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anxiety’ or that can be ‘anxious’.


If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is anxious, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is anxious, as you did in step 1.

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere (look where thought says your feet are, to the left and right, up above…look everywhere) and see if you can find anyone or anything that is anxious.

Did you find anyone or anything that is anxious?

When you have done this and if no one/no thing is found, then just sit with the sensation. Just breathe normally, notice the thoughts and images that appear and let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. Allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it. If it becomes too intense just take a couple of deep breaths into the sensation itself, and then notice the floor under your feet, notice your backside on the chair and then notice what is in the room you are sitting in and name them out loud, while being aware of the sensation and remember to breathe normally. If the sensation does not dissipate at all or only dissipates a little, that is okay, just notice it, without doing anything with it and just go about your day.

We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘anxiety’ or the arising thoughts or images. We are only LOOKING to see what is actually appearing (ie thought, sensation, colour/image) as opposed to what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS.
Let me know how you go.


The label ‘anxiety’is the AE of thought and not the AE of anxiety
The sensation labelled ‘anxiety’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of anxiety
The colour labelled ‘me/I/body’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of anxiety
The thoughts ABOUT anxiety- what it is, does etc are AE of thought and not AE of anxiety

So, is there actual experience of ‘anxiety’ or what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT anxiety?

Label ‘anxiety’ is known and thoughts about ‘anxiety’ are known, however, is ‘anxiety’ actually know
n?
And also some remaining curiosity around decision making. If there is no “I” making decisions – which I am clear on – why does the link between thought content and the decision/action seem so causal (like the murderer’s abusive childhood, the certain thoughts this generates, and the act/decision to murder)? Ultimately, I know any so-called answers to this question are likely to be more ideas/theory/thought – it cannot be known. So, if there is never additional clarity on this one, it doesn't matter, I’m fine with it. Just seems like something I could explore a little deeper, but - as you pointed out - this goes beyond the scope of the exploration here at LU and I get that!
“Decision” is just a label for a certain type of thought. However, there are not many different thoughts or types of thought. It is only content of thought that differs, and the content of thought is simply thoughts as well. But thoughts are simply thoughts. So “decision” is content of a thought. Decision is a story. Even "decision point" is an oxymoron as decision implies something preceding something else and that can´t happen, when all there ever is, is the NOW. There is no real explanation as to why things are the way they are. They simply are. A 'cause' would need to be somehow outside of experience for it to be able to cause experience. That is not the case. One thing can't cause another because there are no separate things.

Do the following hand raising exercise to get into the swing of 'decision making', and then read what decision making would have to entail and see if you can find any of those things in/as AE?

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other. Do this several times, so you are clear whether or not there is a decision maker that is choosing which hand to raise.

Now…for there to be a decision made ie a decision maker, that means:-
1. that there must be a someone or something, and
2. this someone/something is thinking
3. and this someone/something created and specifically chose which thoughts to think in the moment
4. and this someone/something then made a choice based on the decision made via thinking which hand to raise and when to raise it.
5. and through that choice, the thought chosen (eg raise right hand) was the catalyst that made the right hand raise (which is cause and effect = time)
6. and last but not least, that there are hands that can be raised!

The following is an interesting clip about how scientists have revealed that decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them. None of this is AE, but it shows that there is no one actually making decisions.

https://vimeo.com/90101368

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:46 pm

What do you want to look at here, any particular emotion? Let’s look at anxiety as an example, or replace 'anxiety' with an emotion that is appearing.
Perfect, I will wait and see if anxiety rises at some point so I can do this real time versus imaginary. I mean, not like it isn't all imaginary...
Do the following hand raising exercise to get into the swing of 'decision making', and then read what decision making would have to entail and see if you can find any of those things in/as AE?
No, none can be found in AE, which is why this particular one has been a bit of a thorn for me (see below). I’m 100 fully on board with there being no decision maker/chooser. It is evident!
The following is an interesting clip about how scientists have revealed that decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them. None of this is AE, but it shows that there is no one actually making decisions.
Okay, I had an ah-ha watching this so I’ll just share. The ah-ha isn’t based in Actual Experience, only thought, so… not sure where that leaves me and/or it may take us way outside the scope of what we are doing here, but basically… here it is. The reason this question about decision making kept coming up for me was because I was thinking: well, if there’s no “I” to make decisions, why do we bother becoming aware of behavioral “patterns”/seeing through limiting beliefs? If, ultimately, there is no “I” there to make a different decision as a result of being aware of these so-called patterns/beliefs, why do we talk about the need to “clear” patterns and de-knot and de-program? Why bother? Why did I just spend 15 years of my life working on this if it in no way leads to different behavior/experience/perception? In the same way: why do we say belief in the self is problematic and, therefore, “we” endeavor to see through the belief in a Self? (I know the belief is problematic because as long as there’s belief in a self, there’s separation from WhatIs, and the Now cannot be fully experienced.) But the point is: why are beliefs, versus concepts, so powerful that they completely alter perception of reality and seem to affect the behavior that results?

Something the scientist in that video said hit me about decision making, which is that "unconscious brain activity lines up in harmony with beliefs and desires." This explains (in thought only, not AE) why belief in a self is so problematic, versus a concept. Even though there is no “I” to make different decisions as a result of seeing through the Self belief, there does seem to be some kind of executive functioning, some kind of intelligence, consciousness, whatever, we can't know – call it a computer program - that plays out on automatic based on existing beliefs (in the herenow). If there is a belief that “I” am a victim, this function plays out decisions/choices based on that belief. If there is a belief that “I” need to be caretaker/take responsibility for others, decisions/choices play out according to that belief. If there’s a belief in an “I,” same. Similarly, if these beliefs are seen through, different actions/perception may result but not because there’s an “I” choosing different actions/perception. It happens on auto-pilot, all in the herenow, no cause/effect. This is why we bother to see through beliefs, like the SELF, and to bring what is “unconscious” to consciousness, so to speak, because, somehow, the auto-pilot computer program “reads” / aligns with the beliefs/values of each particular CartoonSelf as a way to take action that aligns with that particular story/expression. It is all happening at the level of thought, but that's how the illusion/story of self keeps going, and all of it on auto in the herenow. There is/was never any self involved.

I know, I know, it’s all just thought/theory… and there are probably a million theories out there on this, I've just honestly never bothered to look for them. I know thought content has nothing to do with actual experience – but this is just where it all went for me.

TY so much for your generosity - love,
Raven

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:57 pm

PS- I know there's no such thing as "15 years"... man, it's so hard to write w/o creating traps within language. lol

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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:28 pm

Hello Raven,

I have no idea why things happen, or the reason for them, and I find, that I really don't need to know and don't care to know anymore. It is simply the mind that needs to know, to have answers and reasons for everything as a means of knowledge. Nothing wrong with that. Most of what is pointed to here, becomes knowledge, until it becomes and insight, an aha, sometime later on.

Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:45 pm

It is simply the mind that needs to know, to have answers and reasons for everything as a means of knowledge.
And how did I know you would say this? 🤣 Okay, thank you - I will work on these tomorrow.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:02 pm

Just check in with yourself. Is the need to know about choice and decision making based on just wanting to know or is there fear around this? For some the seeing that there is no controller, chooser or decider is freeing, for others it can bring up fear. Which is it for you?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:36 pm

Just check in with yourself. Is the need to know about choice and decision making based on just wanting to know or is there fear around this? For some the seeing that there is no controller, chooser or decider is freeing, for others it can bring up fear. Which is it for you?
When I look at this / “feel” into it - for me it’s incredibly freeing that there is no controller. It’s freeing to see that there’s never been a chooser, takes the pressure off. Then life can just simply be lived/experienced. But, yes, it did cause me to think: but then my god what has been the point of all of this pattern unraveling? It was just curiosity / wanting to “connect the dots” around thought pattern and behavior. But, no, I don’t think it’s coming from “fear”.

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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:11 am

When I look at this / “feel” into it - for me it’s incredibly freeing that there is no controller. It’s freeing to see that there’s never been a chooser, takes the pressure off. Then life can just simply be lived/experienced. But, yes, it did cause me to think: but then my god what has been the point of all of this pattern unraveling? It was just curiosity / wanting to “connect the dots” around thought pattern and behavior. But, no, I don’t think it’s coming from “fear”.
You might as well ask the questions like: why is the world round, what is air, why was I born, why does it rain, why is the sky blue! There are no answers...just as there is no answer to your question!

How? Implies cause.
Why? Implies meaning.
Where? Implies space
When? Implies time.
What? Implies thingness.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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RavenMed19
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Re: Here we go...

Postby RavenMed19 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:32 am

You might as well ask the questions like: why is the world round, what is air, why was I born, why does it rain, why is the sky blue! There are no answers...just as there is no answer to your question!
Haha! I know. But RavenSelf comes fully equipped with a very active "mind," or so thought says. Sigh. Even if my theory was so-called correct, and there was a way to prove it, what would that even buy me? What need is there to know if I can know everything I need to know about reality by looking at it directly... just this, herenow. But thought doesn't know of actual experience so it grasps for answers/meaning, separating whatis from itself, creating something "out there" to know and a "self" here to know it.

BTW, I bet google could tell us why the sky is blue. :)

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forgetmenot
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Re: Here we go...

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:00 am

BTW, I bet google could tell us why the sky is blue
I am going to assume that this is a jest. If not, then this whole exploration has been a farce :)

Love, Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.


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