What we are looking for is what’s looking

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:37 pm

All of the sensations, colors, figures, tastes, sounds, smells and physical sensations occur without choice and without option - there’s an immediacy to each of these, they arise and there’s no choice to experience them or not.
Yes.

There isn’t a decider. Thought is not a decider.

How does it feel to see this?

Love

It’s somewhat freeing to see it’s all right there no matter what we think we can or cannot choose or decide. That it’s all right there in the present moment without a decider is a seemingly obvious observation, except that it’s not obvious without looking for it

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:55 pm

Thank you.
It’s obvious when it’s looked at. True. And when it’s not looked at, does the chooser sneak in?
How do you see that?
See for yourself.
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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:00 pm

Thank you.
It’s obvious when it’s looked at. True. And when it’s not looked at, does the chooser sneak in?
How do you see that?
Very true!

I don’t think the chooser really ever sneaks in, but there’s an illusion of the chooser that comes back over time. In other words, our thoughts may perceive a chooser but the chooser is just that - more thoughts

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:38 am

Right! So is there any doubt? Can you say with a big fat yes, it’s clear what the i is?

Love
See for yourself.
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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:55 pm

Right! So is there any doubt? Can you say with a big fat yes, it’s clear what the i is?

Love
I can! ImageImage

Thank you so much for taking the time

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:20 am

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it ufully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:43 am

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There isn't and there never was (there was an illusion of one but it was always just that).

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it ufully as you see it now.
The separate self is a grand illusion humans have built to serve the need to feel a sense of order in what is often a chaotic world. I believe we're born without this illusion and that it's slowly introduced through language. i.e. "Tommy can feed himself". There's no malicious intent behind the creation of this illusion it's simply a result of the short-comings of language. I believe our direct experience prior to "being separated" is without separation and that when we really look at it later on, it's still clear that our direct experience hasn't changed (although now it takes a bit of effort to see it for what it is, whereas before, there was no effort required, it's what we are and what's true. It only requires effort because we've been mistaken for so long and the conditioning runs so deep.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It's liberating. It speaks directly to the part of us that is somehow lacking or incomplete. It still requires reminding but the constant returning to this spot, knowing false statements will be questioned was hugely influential for me.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
I can't point to one thing exactly, other than to say that it was taking time to ponder the implications of things I had previously written in response to direct questions. Going back and re-reading things written a few days prior was quite helpful in seeing with new eyes things weren't seen quite right.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I think ulimately we are somewhat on a path. It might be a bit more or less flexible depending on what decision or choice we're discussing but for the most part, we're going to do what we're going to do and what matters most is how we frame it (which is of course what appears to be another choice in itself).

This is still tricky to explain because my mind wants to immediately fire out a counter-argument for someone who might be reading this "so you're saying you're not responsible for your life?" Yes and no. What we focus on matters and largely I think we can choose to fight the way we're going or go with the flow. That's the best I way I've come up with to articulate my feelings on it.
6) Anything to add?
Please answer in full, when ready.
Much love.
In many ways, I think it's important we don't take ourselves quite so seriously, at least not with the small stuff. There's a bigger picture at play that is far more important and we miss it if we fight and struggle with all the little things we think we can control but cannot.

I've come to embrace paradox more than ever!

Thank you! <3

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:41 am

Thank you very much for answering.
Here is something I invite you to explore a bit more.
This is still tricky to explain because my mind wants to immediately fire out a counter-argument for someone who might be reading this "so you're saying you're not responsible for your life?" Yes and no. What we focus on matters and largely I think we can choose to fight the way we're going or go with the flow. That's the best I way I've come up with to articulate my feelings on it.
You can choose to fight or go with the flow. Is this decision conscious? How do you choose to react, when something calls for a response? Is there a choice to react or reaction happens? Would you choose to react?

Both reaction and “going with the flow” is the flow, happening.

Can you describe how this works in experience.

Love.
See for yourself.
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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:48 pm

Thank you very much for answering.
Here is something I invite you to explore a bit more.
This is still tricky to explain because my mind wants to immediately fire out a counter-argument for someone who might be reading this "so you're saying you're not responsible for your life?" Yes and no. What we focus on matters and largely I think we can choose to fight the way we're going or go with the flow. That's the best I way I've come up with to articulate my feelings on it.
You can choose to fight or go with the flow. Is this decision conscious? How do you choose to react, when something calls for a response? Is there a choice to react or reaction happens? Would you choose to react?

Both reaction and “going with the flow” is the flow, happening.

Can you describe how this works in experience.

Love.
Thanks Ilona! It's funny, as I was typing that, I considered this and re-wrote those couple sentences a few times (and ultimately, lazily left it vague).

Happy to see you didn't let it slide, more to come later today!



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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:02 pm


]

You can choose to fight or go with the flow. Is this decision conscious? How do you choose to react, when something calls for a response? Is there a choice to react or reaction happens? Would you choose to react?

Both reaction and “going with the flow” is the flow, happening.

Can you describe how this works in experience.

Love.
These decisions aren't conscious or within our control (so they are decisions but not choices).

Ultimately, not only are our visible/tangible actions not subject to a "manager" or a "decider" in the traditional sense (within our control), the more subtle things like how we respond emotionally and internally is also outside of any decider or manager as well.

I guess I have been hanging on to a notion that we are still somewhat responsible for what happens in our lives but looking at it closely, it doesn't hold up.

We are always going with the flow, many times without realizing it and sometimes with pain or frustration but that too, is part of the flow.

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:39 am

Thank you, dear friend.
And does seeing that makes you powerless?
How do you see that?
See for yourself.
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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:52 pm

Thank you, dear friend.
And does seeing that makes you powerless?
How do you see that?
I guess to some degree, yes. I don't think I've fully reconciled this part yet.

The lack of a decider/manager ultimately means the 'power to choose' is an illusion, so that would indicate powerlessness in a very real sense of the word.

However, it's not as if realizing there's no decider/manager suddenly makes one powerless, it was never there to begin with, so it's kind of a two-way street in realizing that.



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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:49 pm

Is this your understanding as well re: powerlessness?

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:00 am

I agree. No chooser does not take away power. Power was never there in the little me that claimed the choice.
But the sense of powerlessness can arise. And that comes from programming, from beliefs that may be running. And it’s an invitation to see the pattern, so that it can cease.

How is life looking today?
Are there any more questions that seem bothersome?
What are implications of the seeing, that you notice already?

Much love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:10 pm

I agree. No chooser does not take away power. Power was never there in the little me that claimed the choice.
But the sense of powerlessness can arise. And that comes from programming, from beliefs that may be running. And it’s an invitation to see the pattern, so that it can cease.

How is life looking today?
Are there any more questions that seem bothersome?
What are implications of the seeing, that you notice already?

Much love.
Yeah! That was kind of a tough question to answer since powerlessness seems to carry a negative connotation which is not my feeling toward it at all.

One thing I have wondered about is whether this type of work can result in falling away of material successes and if you have any advice on balancing then two?

It’s a chicken & egg scenario as I’m unsure whether this was sought out as a result of disillusionment of the rat race or if maintaining that way of life automatically falls away when a light is shined on the bigger truths... Probably both, although it does seem to be balancing out some after around 18 months.

Life is good, this has been very helpful in gaining clarity! The main thing I’ve noticed is a greater perspective. Being able to take a step back after seeing my mind going down a thought loop and recognising it sooner. It’s not an immediate catch when this happens but it does seem to be happening sooner and sooner with time. Correction to internal thoughts, or sometimes just questioning them while remembering they’re not me can be hugely beneficial!


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