Postby anonymous2012 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:13 am
1) how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
No. Where would it even be? Even if "I" was out in deep, deep space, "I" would still be here in this universe, this reality. There is only the set of all things.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of self is a thought pattern of creation and support for the idea of there being a "self," a "do-er" or "manager" who experiences and has control over "themselves". It is multi-faceted. There is the idea of self as the manager, the idea of self as a separate being, the idea of self as associated with feelings, emotions and thoughts (and awareness) and I'm sure there are many other versions of it. All the labels and associations we have are, in some part, structures of the idea of our selves. Republican vs Democrat. Male vs female. etc
Where does it start? I don't know. No human being is born into pure isolation, so perhaps it is something passed on from generation to generation. But science tells us there was a point where this planet did not have life on it. Where was the idea of self then? So at some point along the evolutionary timeline, I'm assuming when the brain was far along in development, there was an idea of self developed.
How does it work? Well, first I would say it has a strong support network. :)
So many human beings live day to day with the idea of self so deeply ingrained most of them wouldn't start to doubt it even if prompted to. Commercials use it to sell us things, Facebook uses it to generate user data to sell for revenue, and people use the idea of self every day to build little worlds in their minds, ideas of who they are. Group associations, action associations ("i'm a good person, I give money to the homeless!"), feeling associations, sexual orientations associations, etc, etc, etc the list goes on for all the countless ways human beings divide the world around them into "me" and "not me". When in fact this planet just keeps on spinning through space, the atoms that make up Earth keep changing from one form to the next. Birth, death, change. There is no group identity, there are atoms from a long dead star dancing through the universe. Atoms made of quarks, quarks made of strings...and all matter simply energy on a different frequency. It's all just energy. Maybe the mental energy of god, but that's pure conjecture.
But how does it work? It's self perpetuating. The idea of self gets defensive when it's challenged. It hides. There are feelings of smugness, warm pleasant feelings, fear, apathy, all of these tools of the ego to try and survive. Is that where it comes from? Some perverted animal instinct to survive?
3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
For the first few hours, it was like....glowing. That faded, and now I feel similar to how I felt before, but there is a constant challenge to the idea of self. Was there an I there before, is there one here now? Only thoughts. Only feelings. It feels shallow, but it will deepen with time, I'm sure.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Honestly, I think the movie "The Matrix" would be a good place to start. I know for me, that movie was very profound and laid a lot of groundwork for really questioning the world around me. Hell, you could even consider what is being done on this website as taking the red pill. The Matrix is the self, the illusion we all live in, but can be transcended and left at will. The blue pill is also an option, you can come here, face the choice, and reject it, continue with the ego, and return to the Matrix.
But I think the question and answer format used in these forums would be a good start after the choice was made to take that red pill. What is the self? How can you describe it? How is it separate from the world around it? Where does it come from? For the sake of argument, take the perspective that the self is not real and consider life without it. Does walking still happen without someone needing to be the walker? Does typing still happen if there is no one who is the typer? What if you could stop believing in the idea of self, what would happen? What would life be like? Can you consider that, can you try it out?
5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
It was gradual, a number of things in this thread kept rattling the cage. That part about really seeing that thoughts happen, decisions are made, and only AFTER the fact does the "I" get applied to it, that definitely shook things fundamentally. For so long the perspective was backwards, that "I" made the choice, and then the body/mind carried out "my" will.
In fact, there was an analogy I read once, about different styles of Buddhism. One form of Buddhism, it was said, was like trimming the leaves and branches off a plant until it was dead and could be uprooted. Zen, on the other hand, was like reaching down into the trunk and tearing it out whole-sale.
In this case, the leaves and branches kept getting snipped back. New ones would sprout, new ideas, new thoughts, new "But...but!" reactions. The roots are still there, but I think you had it right with that quote "it takes time to be deeply integrated into the system". It will take time for a new plant to take root (or perhaps simply for the hole to fill back up with dirt and return to it's natural state. or perhaps I'm taking this analogy too far haha).
6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
This body/mind form that is distinguished from other forms. This experience, this perspective. The word "I" can be used in the conventional form without having to believe in it, or give it strength, reality. There is a body here. There is a mind here. There is an experience here. These are real. The ego-self is not.
7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
There is only experience. Sometimes that experience is building an ego, but that doesn't make the ego real, or true. There can be an idea, a feeling of a self that is the experiencer, but these are just ideas, just feelings. Typing this brings a wonderful feeling.
Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience? (Thanks, James)
The body and it's sensations are a part of the experience, and the experience is a part of this body. Without this body, there would be no experience. Without this experience, there would be no body. How could one belong to the other?
8) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?
A glowing, a profoundness. Something like a Eureka! moment.
9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening
First few hours continued that glowing, profound feeling. That has faded since, and the old thought patterns still make their way in. Doubt still makes its way in. Questions still make their way in. But when I ask, is there a belief in a self any more? The answer is no. I think there is just work to do as far as cleaning out the old patterns, the old associations, habits, etc. Work to do as far as applying this perspective. Oh, there is a thought "I want that"? That's just a thought. Thoughts come and go. There is no need to identify with it. No need to pay any mental currency into the idea that there is an "I" who wants that. The thought will fade, as thoughts always do.
