Understanding

[anigeka]

The sense of control you mention: what exactly is this sense of control? Is there an entity that exercises the control?

Noticed I didn't reply fully. To answer the second part of the question, there is clearly no "entity" making a choice.

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

Your assertion that the "train of thought" is a thought is clearly right, but there does seem to be a natural progression of a thought stream. For example, if I imagine the word "food", it is more likely that the next thought that enters awareness will be what I want for dinner rather than the square root of pi. That is until awareness of that topic has ceased.

Here is one way to look at the stream of thoughts and its purported meaningfulness:

It seems we can talk about "resonance" between thoughts. Let's take a simple example, a question and an answer. A question is perceived as a direct call for an answer. However, it is not that a question brings an answer. Whether an answer comes or not depends on various factors. Also, various factors decide what the answer is. It is not surprising at all that the same person answers the same question differently at different times.

The expectation of an answer following a question may be called a conditioning related to the language.

But please note that this conditioning is not a necessity. It's not that the question really calls for an answer or - in a different situation - a task of imagining something we set for ourselves demands to be fulfilled. This is a learnt automatic pattern of thoughts or behavior, which can change according to circumstances.

So the resonance between thoughts is related to conditioning, including language. Thus they form a "meaningful" sequence only when the conditioning is present.

If I could attribute the word choice to anything in the scenario it's to not pay attention to the unfolding of the thought. Remaining uninterested and unperterbed, as it will.

Let's take a look at the attention:

Can you choose where your attention goes or is this choosing an illusion?

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focusing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on the breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?

What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

The sense of control you mention: what exactly is this sense of control? Is there an entity that exercises the control?

See, I don't know about this. This is that subtle spark of "free will". But just like the breath- do I do it, or does it do me? I'd have to say it's a matter of perspective until I clearly know the nature of that impulse.

We will get back to this problem shortly.

All the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin, my apologies for going AWOL for a bit

Can you choose where your attention goes or is this choosing an illusion?

Ultimately, it is an illusion. Even if I choose to imagine an apple, it isn't an "I" who chose to do so. It's the field of consciousness or imagination that did so, with an "I", whatever that even is taking the credit for it.

Focus on focusing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on the breath. See how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?

It most definitely moves by itself. Even if a choice to move onto a different topic of imagination is engaged, that choice is made by that same impulse of imagination/thought. Ultimately, I'm just the watcher behind it all.

What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?
Describe what you see.

If I had to describe it, I would say that there is a totality of experiencing happening all at once. That being the bodily sensations, possible sights, sounds, etc. Attention seems to simply be a focusing on a particular aspect of the entirety of that awareness. As for how the choice is made on what to focus, it's self-driven. Attention seems to prioritize objects of interest. For example, if in the past a painful memory came into awareness, it could very well ruin my entire day because the focus very much wanted to stick on that object for whatever reason. I feel like this is very much how depression works. It's simply the "act" of allowing ones attention to hover over objects that the mind interprets to be of lower vibration.

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

my apologies for going AWOL for a bit

No problem with that, It's better to keep some intensity and some momentum in the investigation, but there is no need to reply hurriedly.

Ultimately, I'm just the watcher behind it all.

Is there an actual watcher separate from the experience anywhere?

Beside answering the above question please do the following exercise:

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

All the best,
Marcin

[anigeka]

Hi Marcin!

Is there an actual watcher separate from the experience anywhere?

Ultimately, no. Just as a sound doesn't exist until the vibrations in the air hit the eardrum, a perception needs a perceiver and vice-versa. Although I would more readily describe myself as the empty canvas on which experience is painted rather than the paint itself. That's what I meant by that.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second is truer by the virtue that the "I" is a flexible concept. When all attention is focused on something, there is no "I". When stripped to the bear experiencing of the moment, there is just the totality of experience. This "I" if it is anything at all is felt as a contraction in my solar plexus(that isn't to say I acknowledge such a creature).

2. What is here without labels?

First and foremost, there is pure being. Just the pure sense of existence and awareness. By the property of that being, there are tactile and sensory experiences with different properties that can be somewhat localized. For example, if I focus on my feet, there is an experience of "pins and needles" at the soles of the feet. Although trying to localize the sensation is somewhat weird.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They affect the experience to the degree that the limited span of attention if placed upon the mental qualities of that describing. But this effect is not large.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

When taken as they are, the sensations are completely neutral and spacious. Without introducing an "I" into the equation, there is just what is. Without anyone to hijack any sensation, they come and they go with very little "stickiness".

All the best,
Yev

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

Just as a sound doesn't exist until the vibrations in the air hit the eardrum, a perception needs a perceiver and vice-versa.

Look, that is a conceptual explanation. But what is needed here is what can be directly experienced.

Although I would more readily describe myself as the empty canvas on which experience is painted rather than the paint itself. That's what I meant by that.

What is this canvas? Is there a canvas anywhere?

The second is truer by the virtue that the "I" is a flexible concept. When all attention is focused on something, there is no "I". When stripped to the bear experiencing of the moment, there is just the totality of experience. This "I" if it is anything at all is felt as a contraction in my solar plexus(that isn't to say I acknowledge such a creature).

What exactly is this contraction in the solar plexus associated with "I"? Please take a close look at it. Is there actual "I" in this sensation?

With best wishes,
Marcin

[mpsi]

Hi Yev,

How are you doing?

While this is not a problem at all when you spend some longer time to work through the questions, it may become a problem if you stop working. It's somewhat similar to keeping a bonfire alight - you don't need to work on it all the time, but it's better to put some wood in it from time to time. And you need this fire to make a breakthrough in the investigation.

All the best,
Marcin