The unSelf

[forgetmenot]

Hello Cj,

If the Cj-thought/chatter had a volume control like the soccer game, that would be helpful. The damn thought contents are so easy to attach to.

LOOK and see if you can find what is it exactly that is “easily attaching” to content of thought?

There is no attachment to ‘your’ stories or to the story about an “I” labelled Cj.
Your = thought story
Attachment = thought story, riding piggyback on the 'your' thought story.
Thought referring to thought.
Simply notice the story about the story.
See if you're actually in it.
And see if it's actually yours

For example:
I had a tough time at the dentist today. When I managed to calm down for a few moments here and there. There was just experience. Drilling = sound and sensation. Nothing to attach to. But the stories were rolling and the dentist experience was unpleasant because of the stories.

Yes, LOOKING is the key in all situations. It does not change what is happening, but it helps to change the perception of what actually IS happening/appearing and not just going along with what thought says is happening. Next time also try the 'blahblahblah' exercise.

What is the AE of "unpleasant stories"?

How do we drop the stories and just live experience?

What is it exactly that wants to “drop the stories and just live experience”?
Is there a dividing line between 'experience' and the 'experiencer', or are they one and the same?

The stories are experience appearing as the stories, but experience/THIS is not IN the stories.

Seemingly identifying as the separate self shows up again and again along with feelings of resistance, doubt, frustration and confusion. This is known as yo-yoing and happens to everyone. Yo-yoing happens on an off, on and off until it becomes a frustration in itself!. Even though there may be a knowing that yo-yoing is also just an appearance, it all seems to be ‘real’! This is quite normal! It isn’t known how long this yo-yoing will go on for, but it will happen until it doesn’t. The key is to keep LOOKING. So there will be a period of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all very healthy.

This exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear.
Again, continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

I am really enjoying this process of seeing through the illusion. I am not going to lie, sometimes it has been frustrating. When I do see through for a moment it's mind blowing though. I am wondering why the duality keeps persisting. It's so obvious that everything is one yet the dual nature is very strong.

Has it been any different ever? To what exactly does it matter that “duality keeps persisting”? There has NEVER been a separate self and yet the story of duality has always appeared.

Yesterday after my last post to you, there was anger. I felt like it's a cosmic joke. What have I been doing all these years listening to a fictitious asshole in my head telling me I'm not good enough, judging others, and just constant blah blah blah. All the wasted time spent planning....all the goals....ugh....there is no free will. Things just happen. Everything is unfolding in the moment. Almost feel like why bother doing anything... Now I understand why monks can meditate their whole lives.

Can you see that all of that is AE of thought?
Did you actually LOOK to see if you could find this someone who was angry?

Where exactly is this “I” who has done all of that?
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

LOOK and see if you can find what is it exactly that is “easily attaching” to content of thought?

I can’t see anything. It’s thought content commenting on thought content and so on and so on…..
I am not in it. It is comments and stories about a character named Cj.

What is the AE of "unpleasant stories"?

Thought

What is it exactly that wants to “drop the stories and just live experience”?

Another thought content.

Is there a dividing line between 'experience' and the 'experiencer', or are they one and the same?

One and the same.

Can you see that all of that is AE of thought?

Definitely

Did you actually LOOK to see if you could find this someone who was angry?

It’s just experience being labeled as anger.

Where exactly is this “I” who has done all of that?
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Haha that is funny. Finger is pointing to the head. The head is experience. It is not me.

xox
cj

[forgetmenot]

Hi Cj,

Did you actually LOOK to see if you could find this someone who was angry?

It’s just experience being labeled as anger.

Yes, it is simply THIS/experience seemingly appearing as anger. And just like everything else in the dream anger comes and goes. It is not about trying not to be angry…how is that even possible as there is no controller of what appears. It is just observing what is appearing. So the idea of anger and the idea of a 'me' getting angry will continue to appear. But when you know what it actually IS...there is no ownership of the anger. And when you look at what anger actually is, it is simply label, sensation and thoughts about anger.

Where exactly is this “I” who has done all of that?
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Haha that is funny. Finger is pointing to the head. The head is experience. It is not me.

Have a very deep look here... the forehead is one of the 'residence' of the SENSE of self. Or rather say, the sensation that is labelled as forehead is believed to be one of the locations of the sense of self.

It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

Close your eyes and look to see what the AE of the ‘forehead’ is. Then look at the following questions.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a forehead?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it has a location?
Does the mental image of the forehead suggest in any way that it is a forehead?
Does a thought know anything about a forehead?

So the AE of the forehead is sensation + a mental image (of a forehead) + thoughts about the sensation and mental image being a forehead…right?

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

Furthermore, it's also believed that both the 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the image 'of the eyes' appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

Have a look...what are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

Have a very deep look here... the forehead is one of the 'residence' of the SENSE of self. Or rather say, the sensation that is labelled as forehead is believed to be one of the locations of the sense of self.
It is generally believed that thoughts are coming from the head somewhere around the forehead. When we try to trace back the origin of a thought, it is often believed that it's coming from the forehead, because the attention automatically goes to the sensation of the forehead. Investigate this carefully as often as you can throughout the day.

Yes, this has been my experience.... sensing self behind the eyes and in forehead area.

Close your eyes and look to see what the AE of the ‘forehead’ is. Then look at the following questions.
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a forehead?

No the sensation does not. Just sensation.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it has a location?

No

Does the mental image of the forehead suggest in any way that it is a forehead?

No

Does a thought know anything about a forehead?

No

So the AE of the forehead is sensation + a mental image (of a forehead) + thoughts about the sensation and mental image being a forehead…right?

Yes!

So, can a thought come from a sensation?

No

Can a thought come from a mental image?

No

Have a look...what are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Yes

Can sight come from a sensation?

Nope

Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

It cannot

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?

No

Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

Definitely not

xox
cj

[forgetmenot]

Hi Cj,

So can this self or 'sense of self' actually be found anywhere or is it simply a thought/idea?

Have another look and see if the 'sense of self' seems to exist in other locations of the body.

Okay, so let’s have a look at the body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

So can this self or 'sense of self' actually be found anywhere or is it simply a thought/idea?

Have another look and see if the 'sense of self' seems to exist in other locations of the body.

The sense of self for me anyway, exists in the forehead behind the eyes area. But it is actually not real it`s a thought that this is where the sense of self is.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There is no inside and oustide it is one and the same. There is no body. Only AE is present.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

``Body`` is refering to thought

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

thoughtsoundseeingsensationtastingsmelling = experience

xox
cj

[forgetmenot]

Hi Cj,

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There is no inside and oustide it is one and the same. There is no body. Only AE is present.

And what is the AE that is present?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

``Body`` is refering to thought

Yes…the WORD/LABEL is AE of thought and not AE of a body.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

thoughtsoundseeingsensationtastingsmelling = experience

The AE of the body is thought. Thought ‘points’ to colour, sensation, smell, sound and labels them ‘body’ and further suggests via thought stories that they are a body. There is no body in actual experience.

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,
Happy weekend from Cold Canada!

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There is no connection between the felt sensations and the mage in the mirror it really is thoughts that suggest it.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

Absolutely no connection, only thoughts that suggest that there is.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

No

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

No

Or are there only colours and shapes?

Yes, exactly.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Totally just thoughts and mental images suggesting there must be legs because just looking at the mirror there is NO knowledge.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There is NO body only thought sensations.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There is no body walking, just sensation.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

There is NO AE of walking. Walking is a label suggested by AE of thought. No body can be found. Body is a label suggested by AE of thought.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labeled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

The sensations are appearing without locations and there is room which is a label suggested by AE of thought.

After I did the mirror investigation I meditated. Here is what I noticed today:
When I sit and meditate I usually follow the Vipassana/insight tradition and bring my focus to my breath. When the mind wanders, I bring it back to the breath…….over and over again.
Since I started working with you, the longer I sit the more I get “lost in thought” and probably ++++ minutes go by before I notice and bring the focus back to the breath.
I realized today that when I am on the cushion and “lost in thought” that is all there is; just thought AE. It’s when I notice and bring the focus back to the breath that there is a disruption (not sure what word to use to describe this).
When I am not on the cushion and I am “lost in thought” it’s not the same. It’s annoying chatter where thought keeps commenting. The on the cushion “lost in thought” is more of a “in the zone” kind of thing. I would say it’s just the AE of thought and nothing else. It’s just happening, with way less commenting then off the mat.
xox
Cj

[forgetmenot]

Hello Cj,

You did not answer this question….please do so.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There is no inside and oustide it is one and the same. There is no body. Only AE is present.

And what is the AE that is present?

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

There is NO AE of walking. Walking is a label suggested by AE of thought. No body can be found. Body is a label suggested by AE of thought.

So what is actually happening/appearing? There is no body walking, so what is AE that is present when thought says ‘walking’ is happening?

I realized today that when I am on the cushion and “lost in thought” that is all there is; just thought AE. It’s when I notice and bring the focus back to the breath that there is a disruption (not sure what word to use to describe this).
When I am not on the cushion and I am “lost in thought” it’s not the same. It’s annoying chatter where thought keeps commenting. The on the cushion “lost in thought” is more of a “in the zone” kind of thing. I would say it’s just the AE of thought and nothing else. It’s just happening, with way less commenting then off the mat.

Why is it different? Because a thought says so? Because the quality of thought seems to be different and less chattery? It is still exactly the same thing. Thought is thought. You are aware of ‘being lost in thought’ as just being AE of thought. What is it exactly that can be ‘lost in thought’? “Lost in thought” is a thought itself. Even when supposedly ‘lost in thought’ you are aware of all the thoughts that are appearing. You are aware that you are aware of thought. And what exactly is it that is annoyed with the chatter?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?
There is no inside and outside it is one and the same. There is no body. Only AE is present.
And what is the AE that is present?

It is AE of thought.

So what is actually happening/appearing? There is no body walking, so what is AE that is present when thought says ‘walking’ is happening?

It's AE of sensation and seeing.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Cj,

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?
There is no inside and outside it is one and the same. There is no body. Only AE is present.

And what is the AE that is present?

It is AE of thought.

Yes, the AE is thought. If you sit quietly, close your eyes and have another look…there is sensation which thought suggests is the body and then further purports that there is a you ‘in the body’ and a world ‘out there’.

So what is actually happening/appearing? There is no body walking, so what is AE that is present when thought says ‘walking’ is happening?

It's AE of sensation and seeing.

It is AE of sensation. If you close your eyes and walk…how is it known that what you are seeing suggests you are walking?

The idea that what is being seen is changing points to time…and time is a concept.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

It is AE of sensation. If you close your eyes and walk…how is it known that what you are seeing suggests you are walking?

If eyes are closed there is nothing to suggest walking other than the sensations.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

There is no AE experience that 'now' is moving along the line time. If it seems that way it is AE of thought suggesting it.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

NO! Each moment is AE. The idea of one 'moment' giving way to the next is just AE of thought suggesting this is so.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

NO AE of one event following another. Only AE of thought suggesting this.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

The present moment is not moving. 'Present moment' is not real it is fiction it is AE of thought pointing to this label called 'present moment'.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No. There is no beginning. 'This moment' and 'beginning' are labels from AE of thought.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

AE of thought points to 'now', which is a fiction. So the answer is there is no 'now' it's just a label.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

There is no now. No beginning and no end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Trick question! When the AE of thought points to 'now' as the 'past'. But actually, there is no now or past. Both concepts/labels from AE of thought.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

AE of Thought pointing to 'past' stories.....

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There is NO AE of time. Time is a label/construct/concept that AE of thought points to.

Cj

[forgetmenot]

Hello Cj,

Lovely responses to the time exercise.

So now...I want you to walk from the room you are in to the kitchen. And I want you to notice how the surroundings seem to change. Is there actual change happening?

Kay

[CJR1233]

Hi Kay,

So now...I want you to walk from the room you are in to the kitchen. And I want you to notice how the surroundings seem to change. Is there actual change happening?

The surroundings seem to change because AE of thought points to such a story. However, nothing is changing. "Changing" is label. It's just AE of seeing and AE of thought labeling things, making it appear that change is happening.

cj

[forgetmenot]

Cj...there was no way you looked very carefully a this. You are parroting the same thing about thought. Yes, we know what thought does. However I am pointing to something else here. So please do the exercise several times to see what I am pointing at.

Kay