What seems to be getting in the way is (my?) knowledge, knowing that there is noone knowing stops the search/looking, but that's just a thought arising that the knowledge is already there, and then the self claims ownership of this knowledge as well as of the thought. Also it appears the self has created this feeling of continuity by having a continuous idea of what IT is, and that would be the body, the sensations received through the body as a receptacle and the thoughts that arise (inside the body?) however I've been trying to demote this "knowledge" wall as simple laziness of the self trying to protect it-self, seemingly unwilling to see through it, examine it. it feels as if I tried for hours and hours eventually i would break through this wall but even when i try for an extended period of time, it keeps hitting, or rather deviating from this "wall of knowing", like a water hose being sprayed at the brick wall. My intent is the water and when it hits the answer deviates it back. Who's intent is it? Noones, it just exists as the will to break through, who's will, for there to be a will there has to be a person behind it... No. Will is also just an illusion, another "creation". The self hasn't created anything, it just takes credit for it. But then what is the feeling of intent? Hmm...
Where do thoughts come from? This question keeps arising, seeking an explanation.. But aren't thoughts just the same thing as sensations? They just occur, there is no source of them, the self just creates a label as itself being the source of them, another illusion, they just are and the self takes credit for them... right? I say this but it doesn't seem that I don't understand... that's because there is no I to understand anything... it just is... Hmm... Am I going in the right direction? Or rather is the intent going in the right direction?
Liberation?
Re: Liberation?
So I’ve been pondering, nowhere near enough though, I get distracted so easily whenever I’m with other people, but whenever I have some time to myself I try to get back on this quest. I read your Assumption (including self assumption) post on your blog and felt as though this last part answered my questions and gave me some more to think about.
"Who Are You? (I’ll give a hint, you aren’t what you perceive yourself to be, and to find out what you are you have to find out what you are not.)
P.S. I don’t speak from an individual point of view but from the view that we all share the same divine bond, we are one, that miracle of the universe (God). That thing that can’t be explained in words and shouldn’t. <3
Don’t inquire with the intellect, inquire with Being, the answers are spontaneous. Remember however much you want to believe you are the doer of the question that you are not, the question arises and the answer comes spontaneously. How can their be argument with only one entity, so does argument really exist or is it a play of words coming from the confusion of the mind?"
Reading the gateless gatecrashers, the “to find out what you are you have to find out what you are not” part really resonated with Michael’s story as well as a youtube video of someone describing how they finally “saw”, of narrowing everything down to what I am by excluding everything I am not. So searching for my self, I am not my past - as in memories, I am not my future, these are all just thoughts and ideas, creations(?) of the mind creating a self, I am not my body, because it does things without needing an I - breathing, spontaneous movements, receiving sensations from the external (the senses) and internal environments (emotions), doing things automatically when mind gets lost when walking etc. The only thing that seems left is I am my thoughts, but thoughts come up sometimes that I cannot identify with.. Sometimes they seem so random, or so spontaneous, or even “evil”. So where I’ve gotten so far is that I can’t be anything but this illusion of continuity, the self clinging to everything attention is given to, whether it be a thought, sensation or emotion. So self is kind of continuity between mind-body… Emotions are very interesting. When present, the self is able to very easily latch on to them and call them “it’s”.. Or possess them, and then the whole body becomes possessed by them… which is what I experienced a lot yesterday with emotion resulting from feelings of failure...
Before the concept of inquiring with being instead of intellect confused me, it still does but less… feels like I’m getting the hang of it… but that’s not the right way of describing it…
If you advise me to do so, I’d like to continue reading Gateless Gatecrashers as well as you pointing me in directions I seem to be making progress in… none of these words seem the right way of describing this… hmm...
I know I seem to be writing a lot to you, and I’m sure you’ll sift through most of this as story/self BS, so I’d ask you to do just that, keep it simple for me and just keep pointing me in the right direction from where you see me to be. Keep me “asking” questions… that really doesn’t seem the right word for it either. :)
Now some questions that I’ve taken out from when we began this “process”, I’ve taken a completely honest look at them once again and here are my answers:
What is it that you want from this experience?
To finally end the seeking, to really know and feel and understand in whatever profound or simplistic or whatever way it is to be and feel liberated. I want everything I’ve read and thought I’ve experienced and investigated etc to just click and to be understood. I want to know what it truly is to be liberated. I don’t want to doubt any longer and I want to be able to experience all that these books etc have built it up to be. Even though I feel I know it’s nothing I could expect, it’s going to be completely different and it’s not going to be this fireworks type event whatsoever, I think somewhere in the subconscious thats exactly what is expected. I just want to fully and truly know and understand and be.
Is there an I anywhere in your direct experience?
In belief. There seems to be an unshakeable feeling that something believes in this or that, whether it be about liberation, about where this mind-body is heading, where it has been, what it knows, what it understands, and what it doesn’t but it seems to be fully present in belief about things. It believes it has deconstructed every engrained belief system it could find, but now it believes that all that it believes is just belief… still a belief though, still a something believing in it.
What is the self made up of?
A belief in itself. That’s the only answer I can come up with from direct experience without going to I don’t know. It’s a collection of ideas that label themselves memories, thoughts, etc - mind processes which believe that as a collective they form something that believes it creates them. However I do see that it doesn’t actually create them, it just believes it does after they occur.. I can’t explain this process though and I’d love to understand it, believing it will help me SEE.
I also seem to have accepted this isn’t a quick process, the ego must be properly dealt with… or maybe that’s just something that’s helping the ego in some currently misunderstood way :)
I’m going to go ahead and post this, but I have more questions on my list from earlier posts that I’ll keep working on, sorry there’s so much of this, but I think I’m getting somewhere… but that’s just a thought resulting from feeling… we shall see...
"Who Are You? (I’ll give a hint, you aren’t what you perceive yourself to be, and to find out what you are you have to find out what you are not.)
P.S. I don’t speak from an individual point of view but from the view that we all share the same divine bond, we are one, that miracle of the universe (God). That thing that can’t be explained in words and shouldn’t. <3
Don’t inquire with the intellect, inquire with Being, the answers are spontaneous. Remember however much you want to believe you are the doer of the question that you are not, the question arises and the answer comes spontaneously. How can their be argument with only one entity, so does argument really exist or is it a play of words coming from the confusion of the mind?"
Reading the gateless gatecrashers, the “to find out what you are you have to find out what you are not” part really resonated with Michael’s story as well as a youtube video of someone describing how they finally “saw”, of narrowing everything down to what I am by excluding everything I am not. So searching for my self, I am not my past - as in memories, I am not my future, these are all just thoughts and ideas, creations(?) of the mind creating a self, I am not my body, because it does things without needing an I - breathing, spontaneous movements, receiving sensations from the external (the senses) and internal environments (emotions), doing things automatically when mind gets lost when walking etc. The only thing that seems left is I am my thoughts, but thoughts come up sometimes that I cannot identify with.. Sometimes they seem so random, or so spontaneous, or even “evil”. So where I’ve gotten so far is that I can’t be anything but this illusion of continuity, the self clinging to everything attention is given to, whether it be a thought, sensation or emotion. So self is kind of continuity between mind-body… Emotions are very interesting. When present, the self is able to very easily latch on to them and call them “it’s”.. Or possess them, and then the whole body becomes possessed by them… which is what I experienced a lot yesterday with emotion resulting from feelings of failure...
Before the concept of inquiring with being instead of intellect confused me, it still does but less… feels like I’m getting the hang of it… but that’s not the right way of describing it…
If you advise me to do so, I’d like to continue reading Gateless Gatecrashers as well as you pointing me in directions I seem to be making progress in… none of these words seem the right way of describing this… hmm...
I know I seem to be writing a lot to you, and I’m sure you’ll sift through most of this as story/self BS, so I’d ask you to do just that, keep it simple for me and just keep pointing me in the right direction from where you see me to be. Keep me “asking” questions… that really doesn’t seem the right word for it either. :)
Now some questions that I’ve taken out from when we began this “process”, I’ve taken a completely honest look at them once again and here are my answers:
What is it that you want from this experience?
To finally end the seeking, to really know and feel and understand in whatever profound or simplistic or whatever way it is to be and feel liberated. I want everything I’ve read and thought I’ve experienced and investigated etc to just click and to be understood. I want to know what it truly is to be liberated. I don’t want to doubt any longer and I want to be able to experience all that these books etc have built it up to be. Even though I feel I know it’s nothing I could expect, it’s going to be completely different and it’s not going to be this fireworks type event whatsoever, I think somewhere in the subconscious thats exactly what is expected. I just want to fully and truly know and understand and be.
Is there an I anywhere in your direct experience?
In belief. There seems to be an unshakeable feeling that something believes in this or that, whether it be about liberation, about where this mind-body is heading, where it has been, what it knows, what it understands, and what it doesn’t but it seems to be fully present in belief about things. It believes it has deconstructed every engrained belief system it could find, but now it believes that all that it believes is just belief… still a belief though, still a something believing in it.
What is the self made up of?
A belief in itself. That’s the only answer I can come up with from direct experience without going to I don’t know. It’s a collection of ideas that label themselves memories, thoughts, etc - mind processes which believe that as a collective they form something that believes it creates them. However I do see that it doesn’t actually create them, it just believes it does after they occur.. I can’t explain this process though and I’d love to understand it, believing it will help me SEE.
I also seem to have accepted this isn’t a quick process, the ego must be properly dealt with… or maybe that’s just something that’s helping the ego in some currently misunderstood way :)
I’m going to go ahead and post this, but I have more questions on my list from earlier posts that I’ll keep working on, sorry there’s so much of this, but I think I’m getting somewhere… but that’s just a thought resulting from feeling… we shall see...
Re: Liberation?
What is experiencing this present moment? The moment is always present no matter what is going on.
Nothing… nothing is experiencing this present moment… but… the present moment is being experienced… by whom almost seems like an unnecessary question now… It’s being experienced from the perspective of this body though… this body just is this body… it still feels as though someone is typing… as though something is in charge.. But I can’t find it…
Who is understanding? What is it that is understanding?
Understanding what? There doesn’t seem to be anything to be understood… Just silence when this question is contemplated. I thought I had it there for a moment… But not being able to answer this question seems to lead back to the I don’t know…
Check the bare sense reality and see if there is a you anywhere to be found, is there? Can you see an I anywhere?
No I can’t. But there still seems to be that feeling of it being somewhere… Still haven’t seen it completely… I will sleep on this as those sensations are arising once again.
However I’m going with this on my mind:
“only after sensation happens, the mind will create a story as to why it is a certain way. tiredness just happens. It happens to no one, it is just being experienced. What sensations make up tiredness; heavieness, fuzzieness, relaxation, lightness, thought sensation, "I am tired"
I'm sure there are more sensations involved.
Watch the reactions happening rather than grappling to the thoughts themselves. The content isn't the important part, focus on the actual experience. You're making progress though! Wearing out sometimes is the best way of surrender. ;)
What wants the comfirmation, the false sense of self no? Why would comfirtmation be necessary from something that doesn't exist?”
And
“The false sense of self is a number of beliefs, concepts and ideas which give a false sense that Matt is there.”
Nothing… nothing is experiencing this present moment… but… the present moment is being experienced… by whom almost seems like an unnecessary question now… It’s being experienced from the perspective of this body though… this body just is this body… it still feels as though someone is typing… as though something is in charge.. But I can’t find it…
Who is understanding? What is it that is understanding?
Understanding what? There doesn’t seem to be anything to be understood… Just silence when this question is contemplated. I thought I had it there for a moment… But not being able to answer this question seems to lead back to the I don’t know…
Check the bare sense reality and see if there is a you anywhere to be found, is there? Can you see an I anywhere?
No I can’t. But there still seems to be that feeling of it being somewhere… Still haven’t seen it completely… I will sleep on this as those sensations are arising once again.
However I’m going with this on my mind:
“only after sensation happens, the mind will create a story as to why it is a certain way. tiredness just happens. It happens to no one, it is just being experienced. What sensations make up tiredness; heavieness, fuzzieness, relaxation, lightness, thought sensation, "I am tired"
I'm sure there are more sensations involved.
Watch the reactions happening rather than grappling to the thoughts themselves. The content isn't the important part, focus on the actual experience. You're making progress though! Wearing out sometimes is the best way of surrender. ;)
What wants the comfirmation, the false sense of self no? Why would comfirtmation be necessary from something that doesn't exist?”
And
“The false sense of self is a number of beliefs, concepts and ideas which give a false sense that Matt is there.”
Re: Liberation?
I really feel like I'm getting nowhere again.. I'm not blaming you, just myself, but your help with persistence and continued direction makes it so much easier... if you just replied at least once a day...
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zenkitties
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Re: Liberation?
yes, thoughts are mental sensations, same as visions or "day dreams are mental sensations. They are from one of the give sense doors that have to do with impermanence. they aren't solid in any way. They happen *BOOM* then dissipate.Where do thoughts come from? This question keeps arising, seeking an explanation.. But aren't thoughts just the same thing as sensations? They just occur, there is no source of them, the self just creates a label as itself being the source of them, another illusion, they just are and the self takes credit for them... right?
You are definitely not your thoughts. As you have no control over them. If you did you would be able to stop suffering immediately. The inquiry would be over right now and you would be "liberated." You can also observe thoughts, and a sensation cannot see itself... The seer cannot see itself, just as the eye cannot see itself.The only thing that seems left is I am my thoughts, but thoughts come up sometimes that I cannot identify with.. Sometimes they seem so random, or so spontaneous, or even “evil”. So where I’ve gotten so far is that I can’t be anything but this illusion of continuity, the self clinging to everything attention is given to, whether it be a thought, sensation or emotion. So self is kind of continuity between mind-body… Emotions are very interesting. When present, the self is able to very easily latch on to them and call them “it’s”.. Or possess them, and then the whole body becomes possessed by them… which is what I experienced a lot yesterday with emotion resulting from feelings of failure...
Is it being experienced by the body? or is sight just happening and then thoughts just happening? along with sensations through the body that happen and create a false sense of being to give the illusion of something bigger then it actually is?the present moment is being experienced… by whom almost seems like an unnecessary question now… It’s being experienced from the perspective of this body though… this body just is this body… it still feels as though someone is typing… as though something is in charge.. But I can’t find it…
Keep the intent simple and not so narrow, isn't this what you truly want. To be free from suffering. This means giving up everything (not physically; thoughts, beliefs, concepts, etc.) . Are you willing to do that?I want to know what it truly is to be liberated.
I wonder why there is silence... ;) maybe because there is no you to answer the question.Just silence when this question is contemplated
Find out where the feeling is coming from, what sensations in the body is making up this "feeling" of being "somewhere" and see what it is. Let me know what you find on your investigation.No I can’t. But there still seems to be that feeling of it being somewhere
so many kitties! so many zen!
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
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zenkitties
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Re: Liberation?
Also quit playing the victim, just another role "me me me" ego is using to divert your attention. :)I really feel like I'm getting nowhere again.. I'm not blaming you, just myself, but your help with persistence and continued direction makes it so much easier... if you just replied at least once a day...
so many kitties! so many zen!
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
Re: Liberation?
Should I keep reading through Gateless gatekeepers?
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zenkitties
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Re: Liberation?
Do you think it's going to help you in some way find the answer you're looking for?
so many kitties! so many zen!
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
Re: Liberation?
More muddle in my own story. Can't seem to do this... will get back to you when I get somewhere with this.. I will keep checking back OFTEN so if any thoughts arise containing advice, please do share. Work, people, etc (distraction) keeps getting in the way, but thats just the victimisation game again. Proper devoted time needs to be committed to this. Will increase efforts... Not quite sure what that means just yet, but that's all I have to say for today. Sorry :((
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zenkitties
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Re: Liberation?
keep up a meditation practice. Increase efforts... not on thoughts, you aren't going to get anywhere trying to reason it out. Here is what it comes down to.
Thoughts = stories, stories = more stories. So stop focusing on turning the story to be a certain way, you have no control over it. Just see thoughts for what they are, not your reality but just thought sensations.
The narrator is not you, the narrator is just thoughts happening.
In meditation focus on an object (like breath, I don't recommend thoughts because they are too sticky for you right now). Stay with the breath in and out and count in cycles of 1-10. Start over if you get distracted by a thought.
If you notice a thought narrating something to you, thank it for arising, note its a thought sensation then bring your attention gently back to breath.
This will increase you FOCUS. You are too scattered right now. You're like a chicken with its head cut off haha.
After meditation (I usually will go for about 20 minutes). look and see if there was a you anywhere in that experience. Is there a you anywhere in any experience. Don't go for the conventional answer, LOOK for it!
That's being brutally honest. Is it there?
One last piece of advice, just because there is the thought of the I there doesn't make it true that it's there which is why i say don't go for the conventional answer.
Thoughts = stories, stories = more stories. So stop focusing on turning the story to be a certain way, you have no control over it. Just see thoughts for what they are, not your reality but just thought sensations.
The narrator is not you, the narrator is just thoughts happening.
In meditation focus on an object (like breath, I don't recommend thoughts because they are too sticky for you right now). Stay with the breath in and out and count in cycles of 1-10. Start over if you get distracted by a thought.
If you notice a thought narrating something to you, thank it for arising, note its a thought sensation then bring your attention gently back to breath.
This will increase you FOCUS. You are too scattered right now. You're like a chicken with its head cut off haha.
After meditation (I usually will go for about 20 minutes). look and see if there was a you anywhere in that experience. Is there a you anywhere in any experience. Don't go for the conventional answer, LOOK for it!
That's being brutally honest. Is it there?
One last piece of advice, just because there is the thought of the I there doesn't make it true that it's there which is why i say don't go for the conventional answer.
so many kitties! so many zen!
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
Re: Liberation?
My joining LU coincided with a destructuring of my meditation practice, having started a week or so before I even started this conversation with you. It became less and less frequent whereas for a period of a couple of weeks I managed to commit to sunrise and sunset meditations, it got harder however as the hours for my work became very erratic. Do you think, well I do, that getting back into it would help? I know this is called the direct pointing technique, but perhaps a less direct approach with me would help? A kind of curve seemingly alongside but coming closer and closer, like a fibonnaci fractal :P
Just several of the topics I read, the guide stated that they wanted the participant to completely stop all practices, all books etc. Perhaps I got lost with the knowledge and the books, but the practice itself had no intention in it, besides the eventual goal of "liberation" and it was more focussed just on the present and focussing more and more. Work gave me an excuse to "feel tiredness" in the mornings and evenings and i became more lazy. Now it seems harder than ever to get back into it committedly, but when i do manage to focus I go back to the same "feeling" or whatever as I had before I stopped. I'll make efforts, as much as I can, I see where the ego slipped back in again. I don't know if this is part of the current ego-game being played at the moment, but I think I've put too much pressure on myself to do this, I haven't relaxed into it at all, I'm just pushing and pushing and creating frustration, and I'm going through some "shit" at the moment. I have to make a big life decision concerning whether or not I'm going to go to university, I scored below the required points but still somehow got in... However I recently received a letter confirming my place for a Marketing and Management course, but this really doesn't feel like my passion and I don't know what to do. I know this just seems like storytime to you but this is really important to my immediate and long term future and what I decide will affect me and many others. I don't know if I should go with the sudden opportunity, or wait a bit, perhaps go to uni in australia, but i can't guarantee I'll get in... I always seem so uncommittal with everything and this meditation thing was one thing that I had been able to, which helped me quit smoking, stopped using all drugs: alcohol, caffeine, mdma, lsd, cannabis etc, completely changed what i eat, and generally changed my life... following such huge life changes I'm trying to push and push... I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I'm just looking for some pointers to integrate this "search", this effort to liberate myself from the ego into the real life I'm living. If I just managed to see through the story it would be a lot easier from the observer perspective, but I'm not there yet, and I really just need a point of view from someone with a more objective view of the big picture. Just anything. :) thank you.. I hope you understand how difficult this seems to be for me... at the moment at least... I don't want any acknowledgement, no pats on the backs, just what the words say...
Just several of the topics I read, the guide stated that they wanted the participant to completely stop all practices, all books etc. Perhaps I got lost with the knowledge and the books, but the practice itself had no intention in it, besides the eventual goal of "liberation" and it was more focussed just on the present and focussing more and more. Work gave me an excuse to "feel tiredness" in the mornings and evenings and i became more lazy. Now it seems harder than ever to get back into it committedly, but when i do manage to focus I go back to the same "feeling" or whatever as I had before I stopped. I'll make efforts, as much as I can, I see where the ego slipped back in again. I don't know if this is part of the current ego-game being played at the moment, but I think I've put too much pressure on myself to do this, I haven't relaxed into it at all, I'm just pushing and pushing and creating frustration, and I'm going through some "shit" at the moment. I have to make a big life decision concerning whether or not I'm going to go to university, I scored below the required points but still somehow got in... However I recently received a letter confirming my place for a Marketing and Management course, but this really doesn't feel like my passion and I don't know what to do. I know this just seems like storytime to you but this is really important to my immediate and long term future and what I decide will affect me and many others. I don't know if I should go with the sudden opportunity, or wait a bit, perhaps go to uni in australia, but i can't guarantee I'll get in... I always seem so uncommittal with everything and this meditation thing was one thing that I had been able to, which helped me quit smoking, stopped using all drugs: alcohol, caffeine, mdma, lsd, cannabis etc, completely changed what i eat, and generally changed my life... following such huge life changes I'm trying to push and push... I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I'm just looking for some pointers to integrate this "search", this effort to liberate myself from the ego into the real life I'm living. If I just managed to see through the story it would be a lot easier from the observer perspective, but I'm not there yet, and I really just need a point of view from someone with a more objective view of the big picture. Just anything. :) thank you.. I hope you understand how difficult this seems to be for me... at the moment at least... I don't want any acknowledgement, no pats on the backs, just what the words say...
Re: Liberation?
by huge changes I also mean I moved out from my parents a few months ago following big family issues due to my psychedelic use which we disagreed on, however over the past couple of months i've rekindled my relationship with them, still live on my own, working for my rent, I guess I just want you to know something about me... If that's just the go struggling in some way, it doesn't really matter, this message will be sent anyway... I'm trying here... I really am... but not hard enough and that's constantly in the back of my head, push harder, you can do this, not knowing how whatsoever, but it seems so easy for everyone else, so why am i fucking this up?? :(
Re: Liberation?
chicken without a head... i know.
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zenkitties
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Re: Liberation?
Hey Matt,
I see where you're coming from and although I will not give you suggestions into what decisions you should make because that isn't my place haha. I will tell you what I can suggest about the practice.
So far, you've described to me what meditation has done for you in terms of your story. So if this is the case why stop that just based on suggestions of what was read? If it helped you make long term positive strides then isn't that the right course of action for you at that moment. And if so, do you think meditation would be of benefit to you now with clear seeing/focus?
Seeing where the you has slipped back in is important, no in terms of story but being able to do something about it. Being able to respond is important in this stage instead of reacting to it.
Can you recognize the story at this point? if you can, then don't resist the story. Just see it for story and let it play out. It isn't about resistance or doing this or that. It's about seeing THROUGH it. That's why the sages and gurus say you cannot will this on yourself.
So here is what we are going to do.:
-- You aren't going to read anything about what this should and shouldn't be. Take that time you were doing for reading on these kinds of things and put it to better use in your everyday life.
-- You are going to look at as much as possible in your every day life if you can find a you in experience happening. (NOT the thoughts saying i'm here, that is not the you, that is a painting of a mountain claiming to be the real thing)
-- Find maybe 20 minutes to meditate everyday if that's all you can manage. Or do what's BEST for you. Either way meditation is very beneficial in terms of becoming clear sighted.
*Side Note: Right now I think you should be seeing how the story is in the form of a THOUGHT of control of outcomes. See how this is a made up (fantasy) sense of control. Look for which belief is causing that. Most likely this is causing some form of sense of I-ness that is playing out. No need to reject this thought but see THROUGH it.
It is just a thought, it is no bigger or no lesser then what it is. Note it and then note the sensations that come up in the body that attach themselves to that belief. Notice how these sensations one by one begin to paint a picture of something there. The picture is not a you, they are still just sensations happening one after the other (including thought as you've seen). Keep your seeing on this phenomena. They don't give rise to proof that someone exists, they only give rise that these are sensations happening one after the other in fast succession.
Do you get me?
I see where you're coming from and although I will not give you suggestions into what decisions you should make because that isn't my place haha. I will tell you what I can suggest about the practice.
So far, you've described to me what meditation has done for you in terms of your story. So if this is the case why stop that just based on suggestions of what was read? If it helped you make long term positive strides then isn't that the right course of action for you at that moment. And if so, do you think meditation would be of benefit to you now with clear seeing/focus?
Seeing where the you has slipped back in is important, no in terms of story but being able to do something about it. Being able to respond is important in this stage instead of reacting to it.
Can you recognize the story at this point? if you can, then don't resist the story. Just see it for story and let it play out. It isn't about resistance or doing this or that. It's about seeing THROUGH it. That's why the sages and gurus say you cannot will this on yourself.
So here is what we are going to do.:
-- You aren't going to read anything about what this should and shouldn't be. Take that time you were doing for reading on these kinds of things and put it to better use in your everyday life.
-- You are going to look at as much as possible in your every day life if you can find a you in experience happening. (NOT the thoughts saying i'm here, that is not the you, that is a painting of a mountain claiming to be the real thing)
-- Find maybe 20 minutes to meditate everyday if that's all you can manage. Or do what's BEST for you. Either way meditation is very beneficial in terms of becoming clear sighted.
*Side Note: Right now I think you should be seeing how the story is in the form of a THOUGHT of control of outcomes. See how this is a made up (fantasy) sense of control. Look for which belief is causing that. Most likely this is causing some form of sense of I-ness that is playing out. No need to reject this thought but see THROUGH it.
It is just a thought, it is no bigger or no lesser then what it is. Note it and then note the sensations that come up in the body that attach themselves to that belief. Notice how these sensations one by one begin to paint a picture of something there. The picture is not a you, they are still just sensations happening one after the other (including thought as you've seen). Keep your seeing on this phenomena. They don't give rise to proof that someone exists, they only give rise that these are sensations happening one after the other in fast succession.
Do you get me?
so many kitties! so many zen!
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
http://liberatedself.wordpress.com/
Re: Liberation?
I do indeed get you.
A part of a conversation I had with a friend a while before I got your message:
"i get you, but everyone around me just tells me to make my own decision.. but i never really do... i just kinda sit there and let my body do the talking and all and the decision gets made by the conversation
of course if I really want something to go a certain way free choice can always be put into play, its always free choice, but sometimes its so liberating to just sit back and allow things to go as they have to
and then you let the self step in and take credit for it all
now what im trying to do is get rid of that last step, see my difficulty? haha"
Cheers, much appreciated :)
A part of a conversation I had with a friend a while before I got your message:
"i get you, but everyone around me just tells me to make my own decision.. but i never really do... i just kinda sit there and let my body do the talking and all and the decision gets made by the conversation
of course if I really want something to go a certain way free choice can always be put into play, its always free choice, but sometimes its so liberating to just sit back and allow things to go as they have to
and then you let the self step in and take credit for it all
now what im trying to do is get rid of that last step, see my difficulty? haha"
Cheers, much appreciated :)
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