Refuting the me

[Miron]

I see them after experiences as thoughts, thats it, there is an experience followed by another one with a thought that says "that was a decision or by free will and choice or control"

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :)


I might sound redundant, but could you
give one specific example from your
everyday life?


Please go to the fridge, pick something,
and bring it to somewhere in your house.


What is happening throughout this process?



Warm regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi bananafish

there is a happenig
''I decided to go peeing
there are random sensation in the body
there is conceptualizing that goes like
you are doing this
that a thought arising from no one
Maybe I don t get this
all that happened spontaneously
bla bla bla
so How would that be my problem..''

I am not even sure if this is what you are asking .

[Bananafish]

Hi. :). Just a bit more that I want to make sure ...
so first, please do as I asked you in the previous post; choosing
something and bringing it from the fridge.



Again, please describe in as many details what
is going on throughout the process of seemingly deciding or
choosing, and how you saw through the illusion of
choice.



Bananafish

[Miron]

"I have a little problem with memory.
I went to the fridge and choose to take a piece of cheese.
It is the same actually ،thoughts are arising
Now I see that choise and free well are just conceptual
So as the opposite too.
So Iam not interested in both.
And even if there aren't only concept
I mean where is the problem with the two.
And if there is a problem It doesn't bother me as much."

That's what happen mostly these kind of thoughts came shortly after getting the cheese .

[Bananafish]

And how did you see through these thoughts?

[Miron]

The seeing happens spontaneously
I can conceptualize a story about what happened.
But I would rather not.

Thank you

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :)



Ok, please answer this now; when cheese was picked,
was there a decision you made to pick the cheese, I.e. is there any feeling that you made
the choice to do it? In your everyday life, is there any situation in which you feel
you made choices? Please just write yes or no, nothing more.



Thank you,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Yes there was

[Bananafish]

And can you observe that feeling and tell what it is?



Warm regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

A phenomenon that arises from no one and to no one.

[Bananafish]

That sounds a bit conceptual to me.


To question it in a different way ...
What makes you feel that you made choices?



Best wishes,



Bananafish

[Miron]

What makes you feel that you made choices

Well it is.
At this point everything is conceptual.
I cant think of which conceptual answer you want me to land on.

Maybe there still is a subtle belief that there is autonomous seperate self.

Thank you

[Bananafish]

Hi Miron. :). Yes, I’m doubting that.



And we can’t be perfectly non-conceptual as long as we
communicate with words. Having said that,
I’d like you to work on the question below in the following way.



Please do the fridge experiment again, and observe what is present as five senses,
thoughts, or images.

Which one of them is the feeling of making choices?



Kind regards,



Bananafish

[Miron]

Hi Bananafish



I went to the fridge
I opened it
and took a piece of meat

there is the cold breeze
the smell
the cold sensation of the meat

so no one of them is the feeling of making choices .


and some thoughts flowing throughout the process one of them is choice .
I see the making choices is added conceptual idea of the process .
out of habit probably .


Thank you .