Learning to Look

[charleshyde]

I would really appreciate further help with looking and discovering the true nature of existence.

[Bananafish]

Hi charleshyde. :)


My name is Bananafish. I'd be more than glad to be your help.

Could you start by telling what you think "the true nature of existence" is?


Warm regards,


Bananafish

[charleshyde]

Hi Bananafish (cool name)

Thanks for your reply and offer of help.t To be honest I don't know what I meant by the nature if existence - just trying to express a sense that experience is just happening without self....

[Bananafish]

Hello, charleshyde. :)

Thanks for your reply and offer of help.t To be honest I don't know what I meant by the nature if existence - just trying to express a sense that experience is just happening without self....

Thanks! Right now, are things just happening without self?
Please answer yes or no.


Regards,



Bananafish

[charleshyde]

Yes

[Bananafish]

Hi! Is that an intellectual understanding?

What makes you say that it isn't discovered yet?


Kind regards,


Bananafish

[charleshyde]

Yes it is an intellectual understanding - or at least a conclusion I draw from not being able to locate a self outside of thought. You gave me a yes/no choice so I felt closer to the former. But really I don't know. I can't say I've really seen anything *or even the absence of something) - and I don't feel much different with this 'understanding' except a little less identified with ups and downs. That is a good thing, I guess, but it feels a little abstract. I'm still concerned about choices, about identity, about personal morality, about death and many things which would appear to be integral to a self, a chooser, a doer, a life.

[Bananafish]

Hi!

I'm still concerned about choices, about identity, about personal morality, about death and many things which would appear to be integral to a self, a chooser, a doer, a life.

Ok, let's have a look at them, one by one. :)

Please go to the fridge, choose one thing that is in it, and bring it to where you are at now.



(Please actually do it before you read the following part)





















Now, are you 100% sure that you chose it?
If yes, what makes you so sure about that?


Warm regards,


Bananafiash

[charleshyde]

I've got it now - milk - next to me on the stairs where I'm sitting. Not the usual place for me to have milk. I recall reading your instruction and then acting on it. The instruction is still in the thread for me to refer to. All this backs up the conviction I would normally hold that I went to the fridge on your instruction, chose milk and then returned to where I'm sitting. But I suppose it might all have been a dream.

[Bananafish]

I've got it now - milk - next to me on the stairs where I'm sitting. Not the usual place for me to have milk. I recall reading your instruction and then acting on it. The instruction is still in the thread for me to refer to. All this backs up the conviction I would normally hold that I went to the fridge on your instruction, chose milk and then returned to where I'm sitting. But I suppose it might all have been a dream.

Yes, what you're referring to as the one that chose it is a memory.


And what's memory? How and where does it exist? Is it solid enough to make yourself
100% sure that "you" chose it? Is the "you" in the memory you per se?

[charleshyde]

I can't 100% sure the memory happened - or of anything I guess. I'm not sure where that leaves me ( :) )

[Bananafish]

I can't 100% sure the memory happened - or of anything I guess. I'm not sure where that leaves me ( :) )

It means that there's always room for investigation, for everything you believe to be true. :)



Now, again, did you choose the milk?



Is memory reliable enough for the proof that "you" choose it?
Is "you" in the memory you, per se?

[charleshyde]

It can't be prooved 100% - there will always be uncertainty - but does that bring the whole house down?

Re the you of memory that would seem like a big set of thoughts which can't be relied on

[Bananafish]

Hi charleshyde!

It can't be prooved 100% - there will always be uncertainty - but does that bring the whole house down?

It’s the inquiry that does it; and I mean there’s always room for inquiry ... for every single thought.

Re the you of memory that would seem like a big set of thoughts which can't be relied on

Now, please give me an yes / no answer.
Is the you in memory you per se?


Warm regards,



Bananafish

[charleshyde]

Hi Bananafish

I'll say 'no' in the same spirit as I said 'yes' before. If I think about it, my memory of me opening the fridge and getting the milk does not feel like me - just a representation in thoughts. I feel a lot closer to me in this moment with all the senses going.

Charles