I Need Guidance

[vinceschubert]

Ali, do you imagine that you will ever be liberated ?

[Noobstorm]

Ali, do you imagine that you will ever be liberated ?

No.

[Noobstorm]

It's a very depressing thought but I can't see myself as liberated.

[vinceschubert]

I can't see myself as liberated.

Great ! That's good, you can see that the mind has a story that it believes (and supports with other thoughts).
Can you see the reality of that story ? (not it's content, but the story itself)

[Noobstorm]

I can't see myself as liberated.

Great ! That's good, you can see that the mind has a story that it believes (and supports with other thoughts).
Can you see the reality of that story ? (not it's content, but the story itself)

What do you mean not it's content?

This is a real story.. I can't find the way to liberation and feelings like depression arise.

[vinceschubert]

The story is real, what it is about is not, the emotional reactions to the fictional content of the story are real.

[Noobstorm]

The story is real, what it is about is not

Can you elaborate?

[vinceschubert]

You say that the story of not finding your way to liberation, is real.
By this, i take it that you mean that the content of the story is real.
There's the story and there is what the story is about, in this case, not finding your way.
The story itself is real. There it is, a story. Very real.
What it is about can be changed, it can have more or less detail. It can extend further off into the imaginary future. It can incorporate the content of other stories. Stories that have been shown to be true or false from the past. Those stories generate emotional responses which are then incorporated into this story. Such and such happened and I felt good/bad etc.
It is uncharted territory for you, being here. Yet you imagine that you know the outcome. It Has to be a story. It might or might not come to pass, but that has nothing to do with the story, but the mind will use it as evidence of it's control regardless.
Unless how it works is SEEN.
Exposed to the light of truth, it has no power.
But don't ask me this, Investigate for yourself. Examine the processes that occur right there in your mind. Just watch. SEE.

[Noobstorm]

Just watch. SEE.

I don't know how to.

[vinceschubert]

vinceschubert wrote:Just watch. SEE.
Ali said :I don't know how to.

Ok, SEEing is about Direct Experiencing. That is about what happens before mind. Before thoughts start their ranting about what just happened.
The thoughts take a milliSecond to arrive and if you are relaxed and ready you can take a snapshot of conditions which can then be inspected 'outside of time', so to speak.
Thoughts will still arise as a torrent, and like ads on the tv will endeavor to make you dissatisfied with what has just been observed and then offer you relief in the familiar.
Allow these thought (you can't stop them anyway), allow them then as in judo, rather than try and stop them, you just deflect them, using their own momentum to take them off into infinity.
It's the fraction before the thought torrent that you intend to glimpse. That glimpse will encompass so much detail that you may spend days inspecting it.
Practice it. (without judgement or opinions about how successful you might be)

[Noobstorm]

This doesn't work for me.

[vinceschubert]

why?

[Noobstorm]

why?

It doesn't liberate me.

[vinceschubert]

It doesn't liberate me.

That's How you know it didn't work for you.
Tell me Why (not how). What parts were you unable to do, etc.
Could you catch that glimpse ?

[Noobstorm]

It doesn't liberate me.

That's How you know it didn't work for you.
Tell me Why (not how). What parts were you unable to do, etc.
Could you catch that glimpse ?

No I couldn't see the glimpse that you speak of.