Butterflies or Roses?

[Seamist]

All good, G, and lovely to read.
Next...
Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

[Butterfly06]

I will certainly do that! It is actually perfect timing, as I am heading to California on my camping trip. As I mentioned, cellphone reception there is spotty and so is the wi-fi so you might not hear from me until I am back. G

[Seamist]

ok, let me know what you notice!
xx

[Butterfly06]

Hi,

I am back! Here’s what I noticed - it was actually quite interesting as I was able to see my fear of heights / climbing down a mountain for what it is: a thought, like any other. That realization helped me, I believe for the first time, to be able to see, really see nature.

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

When I look at trees, feel the wind, hear the birds, there is first the identification of those as separate things. The ‘thinking’ kicks in, if you will. Then, by looking deeper, I then see the thought of a tree, of a bird, of a river, of myself, and so on. By seeing the thought, I then see the whole. As if the separation isn’t there, doesn’t matter, for the whole is what is the forest. It moves as one. It is life flowing.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

Again, thinking kicks in and the thought is that, yes, there is a separation, a physical one. There is this body, there is this limitation of a body. Then comes the realization of the thought and the questioning, “if there is no me, then what is there to be separate?” Looking and going deeper, then shows me how the mind keeps trying to reinforce the notion of this separate me. But by simply asking the question “who’s there to do anything”, empties the thought.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No. It’s just life flowing. No inside, outside, above, below, to the right or left. It’s just one thing: life.

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Again, that’s not possible. The forest is one with life. The trees are one with life, so are the birds. The wind, rivers, and so on. I am one with life.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

This concept of witness, again, can’t be as there is no one there to witness. I’ve read several books and did lots of exercises to help me find my witness. As I look back, what those, and so many other theories and practices, are attempting to do is just improve on the self. Create a better self, an illuminated one, one that finds bliss. Again, there is no one to witness, there is no me to become a better version. There is no self. There is a thought of a self, a me, this character G.

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

As anything else, yes, it is part of life, part of the movement. Witnessing happens. But there is no one behind it, there is no little G, inside this body that is looking and witnessing the world.

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Life is movement, flow, life is happening. There is no separation therefore, nothing is “not happening”. It is all part of the flow of life. One flow.

Thank you!
G

[Seamist]

Wonderful to read, G.
We can move on to the final questions now: I'll post then later today
Xx

[Seamist]

Here are the questions:-
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
xxx

[Butterfly06]

Let me sit a bit with these questions. Will post my answers shortly.
Thank you.
G

[Seamist]

Take your time, there's no need to rush it XXX

[Butterfly06]

Ok, here it goes.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Clearly, no. Crystal clear, I should say. There is no G. There is a thought, a story created by thoughts around this character. A me, a self, is just a thought. Another thought among so many others, but one that takes a real good hold, lingers, sticks around. If I look, there is no one. No thinker, no doer, no master of destiny. Just life flowing. Love that!

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of self is this lingering thought that was created, I believe, some time in early childhood. It is a thought that tries to figure out what is happening around, that absorbs what is being said by others - I remember my mom teaching me about what was mine, what was hers. At that point, I probably made the connection: if something is mine, then there is a me. Well, who’s that then? Might be this little kid I see when I look in the mirror. Yes, it should be. They are calling her G. Saying she is a good girl. Well, that’s nice. I want to be a good girl! I want to be loved. And there it goes. The identification, the illusion has been created and it will continue to be perpetuated throughout the years. Getting stronger, more protective.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

Everything feels the same, but all is different at the same time. Life continues its course. Travels happen, mountains get conquered. Work gets done, meetings occur, deadlines are met, conversations take place. I kiss my husband, text my son. Take the train to work everyday, like before. But the journey seems different. There seems to be less pressure to arrive, accomplish, deliver, finish, get things done, excel. What a relief! Yes, that’s the different: no carrying the weight of the world. There is also a new found freedom to look at things. Again, it has to do with less pressure to impress. With the realization that G is no one, just a thought, and therefore, can’t impress anyone (and there is no anyone to impress!!!).

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?[/quote]
I will have to say fear. When I read for the first time that fear was just a thought, that triggered something, a desire to see it, to demystify it, so I could move on. So, in that sense, fear is really a friend :) it pushed me to look. The realization that there is no me coupled with the fact that fear is just a thought, got me always asking the same question, when in doubt: “there is no me, so who is afraid”? And the answer was always the same: “There is no one to be afraid.”

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision, free will, choice, control are just thoughts. We think we are making a decision, we think there is a decision to be made. We think someone is in control to make a decision. There is no one doing anything! There is life flowing. Things are happening now - there is nothing else. Seeing that makes all those thoughts - decision, free will, choice, control - seem so obsolete, without purpose. I go back to my sense of relief, of freedom. All those thoughts are just barriers, ways to continue to limit and to proliferate the illusion of self. The illusion that this character is in control. Every time a limiting thought comes to mind, I go back, look and ask: “who’s here to decide, control, choose, take action?” The answer is always the same: “no one”. What I see happening is less of anxiety - those thoughts can drain a lot of energy, which now is available.

6) Anything to add?

Well, I can go on talking about this sense of relief and freedom, but I think you get the gist of it :) from my answers. I am really amazed by how it feels.

Thank you
G

[Seamist]

Hi G
I'm happy with your answers. A delight to read, in fact! I will submit now them to the other guides for checking.
Xxx

[Seamist]

Hi G,
Can you provide some example for question 5 please?
Xx

[Butterfly06]

Sure! Here it goes.

There is no ‘me’ to be responsible for anything. No ‘me’ who controls things, who can be blamed, congratulated or forgotten. Simple things, or should I say, thoughts that arise in the most mundane circumstances, those thoughts before carried so much weight and so much stress, now they seem to fade away much easily.

For example, at work, there was this big meeting this week - 600 people attended and another 100 watched live online. I coordinated the meeting. Every time, in a situation like that, scenarios are playing in my head around what could go wrong, what I should do differently, that I will lose my job over a typo on a slide. Every time a thought like that appeared, it seemed to quickly fade away. There is no one in control, no one running things, no one responsible. The meeting was a completely different experience to me. I was there and not in my head. The meeting went great, by the way.

When I went hiking last weekend, those 14 miles felt different. There was no trying to defeat the mountain. There was no blaming my husband for choosing a difficult trial. There was no blaming me for getting tired. Ok, thoughts came up, but faded easily and I was there. Life was flowing. There is no one in control, no one to blame, no one to conquer anything. Life was happening right there and then.

This is not specific, but seeing the self as an illusion has changed the perception of several different things that before would fall under the category “things I control” and that made me feel really bad when they didn’t go as planned. Again, there is no one to control, no one to fail to control, no one to feel bad.

Thank you.
G

[Seamist]

Great again.
I'll confer and get back to you xx

[Seamist]

That's you conferred! Well done!
You'll now get a follow up email from Kay inviting you to join a post-gate group. There's support there if/when you need it, make use of it.
It's been a pleasure guiding you, G!
XX

[Butterfly06]

Thank you so very much! Appreciate your help with my process.
G