donothing

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,

I finally get it!
Although I believed in an illusionary self, doubts kept on coming up and the past week has been weird, I started to think I had mental health issues.

Anyway, I feel relaxed today and very relieved.

How about the story of Margaret?
How real is it?

The story of Margaret is totally imaginary.
The reality of life has always been there.
But layered on top of this was the illusion of a separate person to whom it was all happening. This image of this person, Margaret built up over the years and then needed to be maintained. This has caused confusion and a sort of cloud over reality, so unnecessary and yet it was so real.

All the time time thoughts of this illusionary me in the background doing this and doing that, feeling this and feeling that, and yet it's just nothing, the illusion has no bearing on anything.
I now feel a real sense of relief and a love of life!
Thank you so much, Jadzia, you have really been a big help.
Love M

[Jadzia]

Although I believed in an illusionary self, doubts kept on coming up and the past week has been weird, I started to think I had mental health issues.

Oh yes, when the first doubts appear and the whole belief system is questioned it can come to some resistance and strange moments – glad you passed through it.

The story of Margaret is totally imaginary.
The reality of life has always been there.
But layered on top of this was the illusion of a separate person to whom it was all happening. This image of this person, Margaret built up over the years and then needed to be maintained. This has caused confusion and a sort of cloud over reality, so unnecessary and yet it was so real.

Yes, the story is fiction, quite a convincing one since, as you can see it now, it was built up well.

I now feel a real sense of relief and a love of life!

Wonderful.

Now lets check some other things, so that everything can become clearer more and more and start settling.

Please find a quiet place and a quiet time.
Sit or lay down and relax. Close your eyes and relax.

Can you attend to sensation exclusively?
Not minding thought babbling about this and that?
Not minding thought labelling sensation for a bit?
Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here".
But could this be known from pure sensation?
Thought might suggest: "There is a soft pressure against the back".
But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?
Once arrived there, while ONLY attending to sensation, please have a look at the following
questions:
Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,
I hope you are well.

I started the exercise and thoughts were a distraction at first but as I focused on the body sensations they seemed to subside.
Tingling sensations were there and they gradually spread throughout the body.

After a while, when thinking about the questions of body size, shape and weight, the feeling was vague and fuzzy as it was when I tried to feel separate toes.

The boundary between body and clothing seemed non existent, I could feel a slight sensation of my body touching the surface I was lying on. When thinking about an inside and outside it was difficult to find boundaries. On the whole it was a relaxing experience, it felt invigorating.

Love M

[Jadzia]

Beautiful.

Could you please answer the question individually, it can be a simple yes or no, or more.
Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

Any questions about this?

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,

Sorry, I wasn't specific in my answers, here they are again:

Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
No.

How many toes are there?
They seem to blend together, so difficult to count individually.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No, although now and again there was a sensation of the surface I was lying on.

Is there an inside or an outside?
No.

Love M

[Jadzia]

Thank you, answering the questions individually makes it easier for me to see if there are unclarities left.

How many toes are there?
They seem to blend together, so difficult to count individually.

If your eyes are closed, how is it known that there are feet at all, or toes? Can you be absolutely sure that they exist?

Here is an exercise for the weekend. If possible do it somewhere directly in nature, a park, by a lake or whatever you can reach well.
Spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found. Enjoy!

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,
I hope you are well.

I have completed the exercise sitting in the garden. The usual thoughts were a distraction at first, but eventually they quietened down.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

There is no boundary.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

No

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

No

Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Yes

Is there anything which is not just happening?
No

Love M

[Jadzia]

Thank you, Margaret, here everything is well.

How did you feel with this exercise? Any more thoughts about this?

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,

Yes, sorry, that email was a bit short wasn't it.

It was a lovely experience and I think it helps greatly with doubts that keep drifting in.
My doubts seemed to be, I'm missing something, this can't be it, but then they reply, well what would you change?
And there's nothing I'd change, I've seen through the illusion and a big weight has been lifted off me. I still think of scenario's in my head that support a real me in control, but I know they're thoughts and usually the counter argument appears afterwards anyway. So, at the moment I'm feeling really good and again thank you for your help.

Love M

[Jadzia]

When sitting in the garden were there many different things noticed, one of it Margaret?
Margaret, a tree, flowers – all different? Or not?
Is there Margaret and the other ones?
With having a garden close by have a look again. :-)

When you write “I've seen through the illusion and a big weight has been lifted off me” how would you describe it to someone who has never heard of it?

Doubts are part of the game – who or what is the one being in doubt or having doubts?
Anyone around or is it part of the story told?

It takes good and repeated looking for a longer while and time to settle.

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,

When sitting in the garden were there many different things noticed, one of it Margaret?

The trees were noticed, still, the flowers in the pots slightly blowing in the wind, the breeze on my face, blowing my hair, the dog breathing on the chair next to me. I could feel sensations in my body, the birds were singing, a distant sound. There is a feeling of peace and yet aliveness.

Margaret, a tree, flowers – all different? Or not? s there Margaret and the other ones?

No, all one and the same, this feeling of aliveness is everywhere.

When you write “I've seen through the illusion and a big weight has been lifted off me” how would you describe it to someone who has never heard of it?

I think this is difficult to describe, but I will try with an example.
When my youngest son was about 18 he started going out with his mates in the evening and sometimes he would be late home. If it got very late I would call him and if I couldn't get hold of him I would then start to worry. On one occasion it got really late and I lay in bed with all these scenarios going through my head about what could have happened. I was tossing and turning, watching the clock, the hours were passing, fearful, tense, thinking about possible nightmarish outcomes. Then I heard the door opening and his familiar sounds. A wave of relief came over me, the tension lifted, my body relaxed, my thoughts subsided.... This is how it feels.
I used this example because the fear was based totally on illusions and when I realised he was home fear just disappeared.

Doubts are part of the game – who or what is the one being in doubt or having doubts?
Anyone around or is it part of the story told?

The content of thoughts seems to create doubt, I know there is no separate me having doubts or no me to believe in them. But thought content seems to generate some level of fear most of the time. While experiencing life, there are different sensations arising all of the time through the senses, thought will automatically label everything or give a story to it based on past memories. The doubt I feel is part of this labeling and ongoing story. But sometimes it is very easy to forget this!

Love M

[Jadzia]

No, all one and the same, this feeling of aliveness is everywhere.

Is the feeling everywhere or is everything aliveness, Life?

A wave of relief came over me, the tension lifted, my body relaxed, my thoughts subsided.... This is how it feels.
I used this example because the fear was based totally on illusions and when I realised he was home fear just disappeared.

You beautifully described how it is like if thought stories are followed and not just observed, how physical sensations are happening and fear is ‘acted out’.

Does something like fear exist?
Or is there a body, physical sensation and a thought labeling this fear.
Does the body know that this is fear? Does the physical sensation know of fear? Does the thought?

It is the same with the illusion of self – the self, Margaret only appears in the story=thoughts.

The content of thoughts seems to create doubt, I know there is no separate me having doubts or no me to believe in them. But thought content seems to generate some level of fear most of the time.

Can thought do something? Create something? Activate something?
Or is there simply a thought with the content “When this is thought it leads to this.”?
Don’t think this through but check with looking.

While experiencing life, there are different sensations arising all of the time through the senses, thought will automatically label everything or give a story to it based on past memories. The doubt I feel is part of this labeling and ongoing story. But sometimes it is very easy to forget this!

Yes, well observed.
Thoughts have to believed in, right? Who is doing the believing?

And same as above: Can doubt be felt?
In case there is an added physical sensation, does the raw sensation know about doubt? Is it tagged doubt somehow or not?
Or is there anything felt at all?

When you say “I’ve seen through the illusion.”, what exactly have you seen/realized, what exactly is the illusion? Could you describe this please?

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hello Jadzia,

Thank you for the questions they are really helping.

Is the feeling everywhere or is everything aliveness, Life?

I suppose a feeling can't be everywhere and how could I possibly 'feel' aliveness somewhere else. So, yes, everything is life, aliveness.

Does something like fear exist?
Or is there a body, physical sensation and a thought labeling this fear.

Fear is a label for a physical state, the physical reaction in the body to being threatened. So, the physical reaction is real and thought has labelled it fear.

Does the body know that this is fear? Does the physical sensation know of fear? Does the thought?

No, the body is just reacting and it knows nothing of the related word.

[quoteCan thought do something? Create something? Activate something?
Or is there simply a thought with the content “When this is thought it leads to this.”?][/quote]

I find this question difficult, I know thought can't 'do' anything, but during our communication at one point you said, you can't ignore all thought because sometimes they can be helpful. Can you just explain helpful thoughts.

Thoughts have to believed in, right? Who is doing the believing?

There is nobody to do the believing because the person is just a product of thought.

[quoteCan doubt be felt?
In case there is an added physical sensation, does the raw sensation know about doubt? Is it tagged doubt somehow or not?
Or is there anything felt at all?
][/quote]

No, having doubts, is just more thoughts no different to any other, but because of the seeming link with previous thoughts they somehow appear more real. If there was a raw sensation it would know nothing of doubt, but there is probably nothing felt at all.

When you say “I’ve seen through the illusion.”, what exactly have you seen/realized, what exactly is the illusion? Could you describe this please?

The illusion is this imaginary person created by thoughts, whom I believed to be in control, making things happen. A person with a personality, an individual separate from life itself. Life was lived through this illusionary self that had developed a 'life' of it's own. Seeing through this illusion, is realising there is no separation, there is just life.

Love M

[Jadzia]

I suppose a feeling can't be everywhere and how could I possibly 'feel' aliveness somewhere else. So, yes, everything is life, aliveness.

You reached the answer a bit by logical thinking, too, that is ok. One day you might sit in the garden and it will be there… :-)
This went a further than we actually go into this investigation in the forum.

Fear is a label for a physical state, the physical reaction in the body to being threatened. So, the physical reaction is real and thought has labelled it fear.

In AE fear is simply thought (label) +physical sensation + something labeled body, Margaret’s body.
Yes, the physical sensation can be felt, is real in a way.
Same with doubt or everything else like that. There might be something real to it, but it can be only story, too, as in what you wrote about waiting for you son to come home. All the fear just happened in the story/thoughts.

No, having doubts, is just more thoughts no different to any other, but because of the seeming link with previous thoughts they somehow appear more real. If there was a raw sensation it would know nothing of doubt, but there is probably nothing felt at all.

Very good.
Next time a somewhat stronger emotion appears have a close look, break it down to the raw experience and observe what happens when you do it. You might find it interesting.

The illusion is this imaginary person created by thoughts, whom I believed to be in control, making things happen. A person with a personality, an individual separate from life itself. Life was lived through this illusionary self that had developed a 'life' of it's own. Seeing through this illusion, is realising there is no separation, there is just life.

Beautiful.
Life was never lived through the self, it was always just Life happening. The illusion did never change anything or had any power. Only in the story Margaret achieved this and that in this and that way by doing this and that.

Can you just explain helpful thoughts.

Labeling a car heading your direct way, “car”, “speedy”, “my direction” can be helpful.
If the thought is needed might be a question for further investigations.

What about responsibility, was Margaret ever responsible for something?

Love,
Jadzia

[Gem47]

Hi Jadzia,
Thank you again for all your help on this.

Last night I started to think, I'm getting nowhere with this, thoughts are continuous especially when lying in bed.
All questions about thought, and can it really be powerless? scenarios kept on arising. For example somebody with a panic attack and the therapist tells them the source of the problem is thoughts and cognitive behavioural therapy will teach them how to change their thought processes. Then a thought would answer the question, yes it's all worthless, the person would have the panic attack anyway, it must be a chemical reaction in the brain. Thoughts just make up a story for example ' I have a fear of crowds' or whatever causes the panic. Then another one, what about a criminal in prison, how can they be rehabilitated back into society, what could you advise them to do, if they have no control over their actions. Then thought would answer, yes they have no control, but that's life, life deals with it.

This process seemed continuous all night, (of course it wasn't, I did sleep). Then I'd think this whole process is just thoughts happening, arguments, counter arguments, all the same, automatic, thoughts all equal. But behind all these thoughts is a belief that it is me thinking them and that is the problem, but again it's just a thought.

What is the best way to stop this, because there is no self, I have no doubts about this and there is certainly something different in 'me', I have a much lighter feeling overall. But the thoughts keep on coming?

It's weird, how thoughts are powerless and yet manage to maintain such an illusion!

What about responsibility, was Margaret ever responsible for something?

No, Margaret was never responsible for anything. Margaret has no control and therefore no responsibility.

Love M