I want to Wake Up

[ananda1973]

Hi Jeremy

And what exactly is experiencing the AE?

Awareness is experiencing, nothing else.

Is there a boundary / dividing line between experience and the experiencer?

There is not.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

It doesn't.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No, nothing.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

There is no inside.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There is no outside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

A thought and sensations.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Thought.

Thanks, Mikael.

[Beatrice]

Hi Mikael:

The ACTUAL experience of the body is thought.
Color is AE of color and not the AE of a body
Sensation is AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
Taste is AE of taste and not the AE of a body
Smell is AE of smell and not the AE of a body
Sound is AE of sound and not the AE of a body.
Label is AE of thought and not the AE of a body.

Thought ‘points’ to all of the above and overlays actual raw experience of colour, sensation, taste, smell, sound, label
with stories about these being a body, so the AE of body is simply thought.

Is this clear?

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[ananda1973]

Hi Jeremy

Is this clear?

Yes, crystal clear.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

This was quite a mind blowing exercise (pardon the pun) as you really just take for granted what you see in the mirror. No. there is no connection, just thoughts.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No, none although the ego tried to convince me otherwise. (I see through that now).

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

There are only thoughts.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

Taken by itself? No.

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colors and shapes?

Just colours and shapes.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No, no knowledge.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No AE, just sensations and thoughts.

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Yes! Funnily enough, thoughts say "See, your legs are moving therefore you must be walking".

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

Just thoughts!

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No, nowhere.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There is just the image and sensations.

Thanks Jeremy, this was a great exercise. It reminded me of the book "On having no head" by Douglas Harding which had brought about glimpses of all of this a few years ago.

[Beatrice]

Mikael:

You are progressing splendidly. Here is another exercise that helps to see how the illusion of the body is ‘created’, so to speak. Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight - the object seen. In this example, the object being the ‘hand’.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Although ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, is either of these coming from the other, and are either contained by the other? Or are they appearing equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

If you want to, you can repeat this with all of body parts below, one-by-one.
- feet
- legs
- arms
- belly
- chest
- head (looking into the mirror)

Do you have any questions about what we have explored to date? Any questions with regards the body, control, choice, thoughts, actual experience, decisions at all?

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[ananda1973]

Hi Jeremy

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

No, there is no link, there are only thoughts.

Although ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, is either of these coming from the other, and are either contained by the other? Or are they appearing equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

They appear equally, there is absolutely no link between them.

Do you have any questions about what we have explored to date? Any questions with regards the body, control, choice, thoughts, actual experience, decisions at all?

No, everything is crystal clear to me, thanks Jeremy, your guidance has been extremely helpful thus far.

[Beatrice]

Mikael:

Okay, so let's move onto the idea of time and then memory.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mikael,

Jeremy is unable to continue to do this guiding with you. My name is Kay and I am happy to continue with you. I see that you have had a lot of exercises!

Before we continue on with the idea of time etc, I wanted to address the following which was a part of the fear exercise.

So, is there actual experience of ‘fear’ or what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + color + thoughts ABOUT fear? Is 'fear' actually known?

"No. "Fear" does not exist. There are sensations and thoughts but even those aren't real."

I read your response and I would like if you could you write a little more about what your wrote please – that sensations and thoughts aren’t real.

Kay

[ananda1973]

Hi Kay,

Firstly, let me say that I hope Jeremy is OK, I found his guidance very helpful.

I read your response and I would like if you could you write a little more about what your wrote please – that sensations and thoughts aren’t real.

What I meant by this is that the sense of a seperate self is not real, I do not exist, therefore if I do not exist then these thoughts and sensations are not in any way connected to me and can be considered not real. I suppose I should have clarified at the time.

Thanks

Mikael

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mikael,

Yes, Jeremy is fine..he is simply unable to continue at this time.

What I meant by this is that the sense of a seperate self is not real, I do not exist, therefore if I do not exist then these thoughts and sensations are not in any way connected to me and can be considered not real. I suppose I should have clarified at the time.

Great, thank you for clarifying.

Is there any questions at all that you have at this time? Anything that isn't clear or that needs further investigating?

Kay

[ananda1973]

Hi Kay

Is there any questions at all that you have at this time? Anything that isn't clear or that needs further investigating?

No, i'm clear on everything, actually, I don't think life has ever been clearer haha!


Thanks


Mikael

[forgetmenot]

Okay cool! If you want to respond to the time exercise..that would be great :)

Kay

[ananda1973]

Hi Kay

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

No, Now does not move at all.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

None.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No. Each "moment" plays out but not in a sequence.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It's not moving at all in any concrete sense.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

It never began, it always just is.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

That is a paradox really because Now just is, it has no duration to speak of and words like length add nothing to it.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

It neither starts nor ends.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

When you start to experience thoughts about events that have taken place.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

See above. Thoughts, nothing more.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Only thoughts which is why a time machine would never work!
Seriously though, the past is not a concrete thing that we can re-experience.

Thanks

Mikael

[forgetmenot]

Hi Mikael,

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No. Each "moment" plays out but not in a sequence.

For there to be an “each moment” points to time.
What exactly is it that is playing out?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

When you start to experience thoughts about events that have taken place.

When did those events actually take place?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
Only thoughts which is why a time machine would never work!
Seriously though, the past is not a concrete thing that we can re-experience.

What exactly is it that is experiencing anything…including a past, present or future?

Kay

[ananda1973]

Hi Kay

What exactly is it that is playing out?

The actual experience of being. Life is happening and is observed.

When did those events actually take place?

They could only have taken place in the now, interesting question.

What exactly is it that is experiencing anything…including a past, present or future?

Awareness, conciousness, whatever word you choose to describe being.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mikael,

What exactly is it that is playing out?

The actual experience of being. Life is happening and is observed.

And what is life being observed by exactly? What is being aware? Is there anything being aware? Is there anything doing the being aware?

When did those events actually take place?

They could only have taken place in the now, interesting question.

And what exactly is the now?

What exactly is it that is experiencing anything…including a past, present or future?

Awareness, conciousness, whatever word you choose to describe being.

You just looked at the concept of time, since there is no time, then what is it exactly that can be experiencing a past, present or future?

For something to experience something points to subject/object split which points to separation. There is no separation in any shape or form. What is "awareness"? Is it something other than, different to, or separate from, experience?

Kay