I Me Mine

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back. I thought I'd be done with my work deadlines sooner but they were extended, but I'm back and somewhat rested and ready to pick up where we left off.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate entity 'self,' 'me,' or 'I' at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form. There are I/me thoughts, but those are only thoughts.

There was never any separate entity, ever. There were I/me thoughts that lead "me" to believe that "I" was a separate entity, but that was only a story, thought content.

I'll work on the next question tomorrow.

Hope you are well.

Cliff

[Artst]

Hi Cliff,

Great!

Sending love,

Robyn

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self begins in childhood. You are told that you are a separate entity, apart from everything, and society reinforces it. The subject/object nature of language reinforces it. The "I" thought become a habit that pervades your thinking, so much that you believe it to be the truth.

The way I see it now: "I/me" is a thought, a concept, a story. Even though "I" see through the "I" thought, it is still a persistent, habitual thought. Not an easy habit to break.

Thoughts of being "stuck" arise. Of not seeing it as clearly as I'd like to. More thought content. I'll continue to look.

Cliff

[Artst]

HI, Cliff,

Thoughts of being "stuck" arise. Of not seeing it as clearly as I'd like to. More thought content. I'll continue to look.

Cliff, this is tough stuff. It could be said that the mind is putting up resistance to 'getting it' completely. It could be said that expectations that seeing through the illusion have come up again to get in the way. Ultimately, when it comes to thought, it's all automatic. There is no control. Thought content about thought content about thought content. It's endless. Please respond to what I just wrote - does it help clarify? What questions do you have?

More thought content.

Yeppers.

I'll continue to look.

Please tell me - what is meant by this? Is there still belief there is I? What is there to continue to look for? (I hope this doesn't sound sarcastic - this is meant as a genuine question to assist you.)

With love,

Robyn

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

Cliff, this is tough stuff. It could be said that the mind is putting up resistance to 'getting it' completely. It could be said that expectations that seeing through the illusion have come up again to get in the way. Ultimately, when it comes to thought, it's all automatic. There is no control. Thought content about thought content about thought content. It's endless. Please respond to what I just wrote - does it help clarify? What questions do you have?

Tough stuff indeed. It appears that the mind is putting up resistance to 'getting it' completely. I get that thought is automatic, that there is no control, and that it is endless. I see all of that. My question is - if I see all of that, then why don't I feel different? Why hasn't my experience of the world changed? If it hasn't, does that mean I still believe in 'I/me?' I see that the 'I' is a thought, that there is no separate self, that there is just Life, just 'this.' But that seeing, that knowledge, hasn't really changed my experience of life. And if it doesn't change my experience of life, what's the point? Sorry, there is much frustration.

I'll continue to look.

Please tell me - what is meant by this? Is there still belief there is I? What is there to continue to look for? (I hope this doesn't sound sarcastic - this is meant as a genuine question to assist you.)

There is the experience of being, of being alive, and that experience is so closely bound to the 'I' thought that even though I 'know' that there is no 'I' or a separate entity...perhaps that is where the resistance is.

Cliff

[Artst]

HI, Cliff,

Tough stuff indeed. It appears that the mind is putting up resistance to 'getting it' completely.

Uh-huh. What is the mind in direct experience? Does it exist?

I get that thought is automatic, that there is no control, and that it is endless. I see all of that.

Ok. What is it that sees all of that?

My question is - if I see all of that, then why don't I feel different? Why hasn't my experience of the world changed?

This is for you to answer. These are expectations - and what are expectations in Direct Experience?

Cliff, here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.  

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.


Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)



At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:



1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Let me know what, if anything, opens up from this exercise, Cliff.

And if it doesn't change my experience of life, what's the point?

I have compassion for the frustration.

Expecting a big difference can obscure a subtle shift.

The liberation is simply in living in reality rather than an illusion. Seeing through the illusion doesn't mean that the experience of life will be different.

Seeing through it is seeing through it. Having thoughts (which are automatic anyway) to the contrary doesn't negate having seen through it.

Much love,
Robyn

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

What is the mind in direct experience? Does it exist?

I can't see, smell, taste, touch or hear the mind. I have thoughts about the mind, but those are thoughts.

I get that thought is automatic, that there is no control, and that it is endless. I see all of that.

Ok. What is it that sees all of that?

Hah! I don't know. Nothing sees all of that? It's all thought content?

My question is - if I see all of that, then why don't I feel different? Why hasn't my experience of the world changed?

This is for you to answer.

I don't know why I don't feel different. I don't know why my experience of the world hasn't changed. I feel like I'm missing something.

These are expectations - and what are expectations in Direct Experience?

Expectations are thoughts. That much is realized.
I'll try the exercise in a bit. If not, perhaps tomorrow.

Cliff

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:



1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?


The one without the 'I' was truer, easier, lighter.

2. What is here without labels?


Life is here. The fan is blowing. The cat is sleeping. There is the feeling of the pen in hand, the notebook on lap.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?


The labels are an attempt at describing the experience. Whether they truly describe the experience, I don't know.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

It felt lighter to write without the 'i,' for sure. The 'I' thought added weight to the thought.

[Clifftone]

Oops, hit Submit too soon. Thanks for your patience Robyn. It means a lot.

Cliff

[Artst]

Great, Cliff -

This question didn't get answered - please answer it directly, ok?

What is the mind in direct experience? Does it exist?

It's all thought content?

Exactly, including the story about not feeling any different.

I look forward to more.

Sending love,

Robyn

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

What is the mind in direct experience? Does it exist?

In direct experience, the mind is a thought. And therefore, it doesn't exist separate from thought.

Expecting a big difference can obscure a subtle shift.

Any suggestions?

Cliff

[Clifftone]

Hi Robyn,

I realize my "any suggestions" question may sound a little facetious, but it's not meant that way. I honestly am unclear as to how to manage my expectations. Aren't expectations just thoughts that will appear, unbidden? Do I "replace" them with other thoughts? Or do I simply ignore them? Perhaps that is the way to go. It is getting easier to ignore some thoughts, or at least not take them seriously.

Cliff

[Artst]

Dear Cliff,

I apologize for the delay.

I didn’t take your question to be sarcastic at all. No worries.

I’m on vacation and we are heading home tomorrow. It may be a couple of days before I get back to you.

Until then, stay engaged, keep looking and noticing the difference between thought content and direct experience. Especially notice when the thought content is clearly untrue.

Keep me posted on how it goes.

Sending love,

Robyn

[Artst]

Hi, Cliff,

I'm back home and in the swing of things.

Two questions for you:

1) Is it clear that thoughts just happen -- just like seeing just happens?

2) Is it clear that there is no I in DE and therefore no I in reality?

Sending love!

Robyn

[Clifftone]

Welcome back Robyn!

Is it clear that thoughts just happen -- like seeing just happens?

Yes, it is clear that thoughts just happen, there is no thinker.

Is it clear that there is no I in DE and therefore no I in reality?

It is clear that there is no I in direct experience. It is clear that there is no I in reality. That last sentence took a while to write, since thoughts kept appearing, like "there is no gravity in direct experience but gravity exists." But those are just thoughts. When I look for an I, I can't find it. I find thoughts of an I.