Had some kind of awakening where I saw there's no me, curious to know more and to deepen...

[gondwana]

Therefore there are 7 billion people without a real "I" walking around. Hilarious!
That was indeed my "awakening" experience in 2013!

Haha, yes I had the same insight at the time.

And you can see how their belief in the story, drives ALL their behaviour right? And it’s not even their fault! They are unaware that it’s just a story!

Story closed. Thx a lot!

You are most welcome! So it is crystal clear there is no self now?

If so, and if it is ok, we have 5 little survey questions we like to end with to sample peoples’ experience?

Now this year i read goran backlund and not only was the "I" not real but actually "nothing" was "real"

Very interesting! And many of us here have also seen that.

Removing the belief in the self, seems to be the “cork” that once removed, unblocks the channel for all these further things to be experienced.

There is a Further Investigation forum here, where we take a deep look into that and all the other deeper aspects, if there is a desire to?

[Dave1]

If so, and if it is ok, we have 5 little survey questions we like to end with to sample peoples’ experience?

Fire away, happy to return the favor and make the process better for those who follow...

There is a Further Investigation forum here, where we take a deep look into that and all the other deeper aspects, if there is a desire to?

Actually this Monday I had a further and it seems final realization: that there's nothing further to DO than (self)-enquiry in to the nature of things (foremost the self thing) and not even that. So NO practices, NO books, NO vedas, only direct knowledge, if the forum is somehow in alignment with that I'd be very interested!

[gondwana]

Actually this Monday I had a further and it seems final realization: that there's nothing further to DO than (self)-enquiry in to the nature of things (foremost the self thing) and not even that. So NO practices, NO books, NO vedas, only direct knowledge, if the forum is somehow in alignment with that I'd be very interested!

Yes, LU is all about the direct path - direct pointing (guided inquiry leading to direct knowledge), not practices.

Here are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Dave1]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No there's no "I" or "Ego" , nor has there ever been one, nor will there ever be one.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

It comes out of the inner brain workings, where everything is divided into duality, so if it sees something there must be a seeer, if there's no seeer it just creates one. Probably it just creates everything, including the idea that there's a brain.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

It's liberating, freedom, the "I" that was supposed to be driving every action or thought is not there.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

That the "Ego" was the same as "I"
That I've no control over my thoughts.
And no idea where they come from.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

There all just a thought and I've no idea where these thoughts come from.
So no control, no decision, no intention, no free , no will.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing ever happened. (As there's no seer separated from the seen.)

c) What are you responsible for?

Nothing it all just happens and not even that.

d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Thanks! Spread the word!

There is a Further Investigation forum here, where we take a deep look into that and all the other deeper aspects, if there is a desire to?
Yes, LU is all about the direct path - direct pointing (guided inquiry leading to direct knowledge), not practices.

Beam me up Scotty!

[gondwana]

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

It comes out of the inner brain workings, where everything is divided into duality, so if it sees something there must be a seeer, if there's no seeer it just creates one. Probably it just creates everything, including the idea that there's a brain.

Could you just elaborate on Q2 a little more?

Provide some examples of how it works now from your present experience?

5) b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing ever happened. (As there's no seer separated from the seen.)

For clarity, could you also elaborate more on your meaning of “nothing ever happened”?

[Dave1]

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
It comes out of the inner brain workings, where everything is divided into duality, so if it sees something there must be a seeer, if there's no seeer it just creates one. Probably it just creates everything, including the idea that there's a brain.

Could you just elaborate on Q2 a little more?

In my own experience the "I" is just a though, so to give the impression it is always there it needs time (feeds on time).
So it always needs to do something to get to a better, more happier, enlightened "I" somewhere in the future (this future "I" is also just a thought). The problem is if there going to be a better, happier, enlightened version of me in the future it inherently implies there's a faulty, unhappy, unenlightened version of me NOW. However when actually looking NOW, I'm always unable to find any version of me. (nor a now, nor a future version)
Examples: stopped doing all self improvement, as there's no self to improve, trying to improve it keeps the illusion of a self alive.
stopped doing all spiritual practices that lead to an awakening in the future, as there's no self to awaken, trying to awaken in the future keeps me bound in the illusion of a self.

5) b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
Nothing ever happened. (As there's no seer separated from the seen.)
For clarity, could you also elaborate more on your meaning of “nothing ever happened”?

As i've no control over thoughts arising and there's no "I", nobody is actually doing anything, so things just happen (or they don't). So I've actually no idea how things happen or how it works, it's just beautiful to watch it unfolding.

This weekend I wrote down the following on "Nothing ever happened":

1ste insight:

If there's only an "I" when there's a thought "I"
And thoughts are not real, then the "I" is not real.

So there's 7 billion bodies on this planet without an "I" or "Ego" in there.
So there's actually nobody on this planet.

Add to this the zen koan: if a trees falls in the wood and nobody hears it , does it make sound?

Did anything ever happen?
Did anybody ever make anything happen?


P.S. Even Donald Trump has no "I", no "Ego", has no clue where his thoughts or intentions come from, cannot stop his thoughts, etc… :-)

2nd insight:

If there's no "I" this leads to the insight that the seer and the seen are the same thing (Advaita)

If the receiver and the transmitter are the same thing. What does transmission even mean? Was anything ever transmitted?

If the seer and the seen are the same thing. What does color even mean? Was anything ever seen?

if the listener and the sound are the same thing. What does sound even mean? Was anything ever heard?
Repeat for the other senses.

Did anything ever happen?
Did anybody ever make anything happen?

[gondwana]

Great insights! That was very clear :)

There are a couple more questions coming up from the other guides:

1) Can you describe the exact moment it was realised that there is no "I?" Where you were, what you were doing, etc? Help us to picture the moment of seeing as it happened for you, regardless whether it was within this conversation or outside.

2) What would you say to help a person grieving after a natural disaster?

[Dave1]

1) Can you describe the exact moment it was realized that there is no "I?" Where you were, what you were doing, etc.? Help us to picture the moment of seeing as it happened for you, regardless whether it was within this conversation or outside.

This happened in 2013, when watching a video from Papaji.
It felt like a mind, body and energetic experience.
It was hilarious, the joke, that there had never been any "me" and there was actually nobody on this planet. I laughed for days.
I felt totally free from any negative thoughts/emotions for 4 days and then "I" experienced it subsiding (in hindsight it never went away). It was a major insight and was unable to engage in any self-improvement, workshops, coaching, practices etc. for the last 4-5 years. But was still very unhappy however and drinking a lot "after" it "subsided".

Then 4 months ago I stopped drinking and started meditating to finally reach "enlightenment".
Then about 2 months ago I read the book "Refuting the external world" by Goran Backlund and had about the same experience for again four days. So dropped the meditation and focused on Advaita and particularly on Papaji.
Downloaded everything from him on youtube, put it on a stick in my car and was listening to Satsang whenever driving.

Then last Monday (september 10th, just before this conversation started) he delivered the final insight that is was in fact the seeking/reaching/doing that was the crux of the problem. There was nothing more to do, I was finally and permanently free. It was more than a mind insight as from that day negative thoughts/emotions don't seem to be there (that much) anymore and the four day mark seems long gone. There's also the insight now that it can not be lost as it was always there...

2) What would you say to help a person grieving after a natural disaster?

Well that's a though one for me. Well I WOULDN'T tell them that there's actually no "I", no time and nothing ever happened as that would seem insensitive and probably not helping at all. If I was with the person would probably move more to listening to them than saying anything. Being present.

[gondwana]

Perfect, thanks for clarifying!
There are no more questions :)

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