Freedom

[Seamist]

Only what's there in your immediate direct experience through the senses ( not just sight) is real. Otherwise it's a thought

[Debtfree]

Now if I bring Santa Claus to mind he is a picture on a Xmas card and something for young children to believe in for a period of time...just parents being playful. But would you say there are no parents?
And thoughts are not real....I then ask what about the thought of say an author who thinks to write a book. Is that just thinking of writing happening without an author? How is that different to thinking sadly about the bathroom happening?

[Seamist]

I may not have explained it very well, I think.
What I'm trying to do is to get you to see the difference between thought and direct experience.
Does that make sense?

[Seamist]

Or between the real and the imagined...

[Seamist]

So rather than talking about things being real, I did have talked about things being in direct experience. Sorry to be causing confusion!

[Debtfree]

So is thinking real but thoughts are unreal? What about if something is lost and suddenly a memory of where it was last used then that memory is real? Imagining that it was, perhaps, left in the car is that not real? I do sort of see that thoughts are not real in themselves but what about thinking or trying to remember where the thing is? Tricky to explain, my end and yours!

[Seamist]

Thinking happens but it is not the same as direct experience. My apologies for being unclear.
Shall we continue? More useful than getting caught up in debate, I think.

[Debtfree]

Yes you take the lead, I was never a fan of debates!

[Seamist]

Good, they're not my strong point (as you can probably tell!)

Let's explore the senses now.

Choose an ordinary object in the room. Maybe a vase of flowers or something that has interesting and varied visual qualities.
Close your eyes and picture it in your mind for a minute or two.
Open your eyes and observe it directly for a while.
Describe both experiences.
What's the difference between them?
Sioned

[Debtfree]

Well it’s a large mirror with a few things resting on the top of it and photographs and rwo bright cards stuck on it. When I had my eyes closed it felt I was remembering each object and where I got the them and the thinking of the people and events in the photographs and the people who had sent me the cards and the felt humour and affection from them. However, in my mind’s eyeit had a slight flat feeling and half colour and half black and white feel, a little as if the lense seen with was a bit dusty. When I opened my eyes I saw it all as a whole, a tableau, colourful and pleasing and solid and bright beaming out at me.

[Seamist]

That's good noticing, well done. Much more thought when you had your eyes closed?

Now, think of a sound that you can easily make at home - something simple, like a bell or a gong, would be perfect, if you have one.
Listen to it now if you need to remind yourself what it sounds like.
Wait a few minutes if you do that, then:
1. Imagine the sound. How did you do that? Describe it. ( Using only adjectives) What were its qualities?
2. Then make the sound and listen with your whole being. Describe as fully as you can, again only using adjectives.
3. What's the difference? ( You don't have to only use adjectives for this last bit)

You've done a lot of work today, Deborah!

[Debtfree]

I have, Sioned, and I am really grateful for your time, it’s been great and it’s beginning to broaden the way I look and experience things. I think I’ll wait to do the sound exercise tomorrow. Monday and Friday I sometimes play tennis in Lancaster so it takes the best part of the morning and I get back early afternoon so if you don’t hear from me in the morning that’s where I am. Thanks again so much. Deborah x

[Seamist]

Waiting till tomorrow to do more now makes sense to me.
Speak again at some point tomorrow,
Goodnight, Deborah!
Sioned

[Debtfree]

Hi Sioned
1.A bell...tinkling, metallic, brass, absorbed, memorable, Buddhist, hollow, high pitched, happy, precious, meditative, distanced, aural, spreading,
2. Powerful, penetrating, rounded, reverberating, louder, clearer, enveloping, absorbing, boundary less, echoing, spreading, inspiring, lifting higher.
3. The difference is no 1 was flatter, further away, more remembered from the head and a seen image whereas the second wasn’t imagined or seen but the sound was the most important thing and it was felt in the body and the whole of me. I was less interested in imaging it and more touched by how it affected my body and senses in a way that it had no edges so it felt it was one with my body. No place where the sound sounded and the body felt. It was all one.

[Seamist]

Hi Deborah
That's a great answer, very full, lovely to read.I have nothing to ask you about it, not to add.
Here's your next exercise:
This involves a piece of fruit, hopefully you've got one available ( improvise if you haven't)? Something like an orange or a banana...
Imagine that you're eating it... the sensations of chewing, the taste, the texture, the smell, the sound it makes as you bite into it and chew it. As fully and in as much detail as you can. Describe it in your reply to me
Then... Actually smell it, but it, chew it, taste it, etc... Really enjoy the experience. Be with it wholeheartedly. What is the experience like? Let me know.
Then for another minute or so describe the taste and smell (etc) in as much detail as possible. What is this experience, of describing, like?
Then, tell me what you noticedwhen you compare the three experiences - the imaginary fruit, the real fruit, and the process of describing