Freedom from the I

[summiru2]

When this "experiencing" happens, what exactly is happening? What is it that tells you there is a division?

Attention is lost. Experience is attention.

What is it that tells you there is a division?

Tracing back actions or thoughts occurred would show the division.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Attention is lost. Experience is attention.

Let's break everything down into direct experience - what is seen, heard, touched, tasted, smelled and thought.

What is this experience/attention?
Does something control it?
Are there thoughts involved?

Remember that we talked about how the idea that a cup contains liquids is not real. Only what is seen, heard and sensed is real. The image of the cup, the sensation of smoothness. Then thoughts are added.

Please look at attention/experience like this, and separate what is real from what is added by thoughts. Tell me what you find.


Steve

[summiru2]

Attention is lost. Experience is attention.

Hi Steve,
One correction "Experience is inattension"

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Can you explain that in a bit more detail? How does it work?


Steve

[summiru2]

Hello Steve,
When seeing or hearing or sensing is happening in the attention then there is no issue, but when the recognization starts then there is experiencing, that is indulging with pleasure, the eruption thoughts, forgetfulness about what is being happened. In the attention, there is only seeing or hearing or tasting or just be but in experience, there is a flow of mind in the forms of acceptance or rejection or concerning or resistance or craving for more etc. That experience in the lack of attention.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

OK - thanks. I understand that.

Yes, there is an illusion being believed but right now there is an important part of it we need to focus on: Is there a separate witness?

Recall that I asked,

Close your eyes and listen for sounds. Can you find the boundary between the sound and the hearer?

And you answered,

Just hearing is there.

What about sight? When you look (when you pay attention), can you see a separate observer, or is there only "the seen"?


Steve

[summiru2]

Sir,
Now infrant of the eyes there is a tree visible in the light of street lamp. Let's see happens when it is being seen with attention. There is central of focus on the 🌲, when the central of focus is gone, it is just seeing, and there is no difference of tree or anything.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Great observation work! Now we need to focus in on the separate observer. Can a separate observer - separate to what is seen - be found, or not?


Steve

[summiru2]

In the clear observation, the world around is just constructed by the sensory organs, when one of the organs put to rest at least forcibly then there is no world related to that particular organ, an example is vision when eyes are closed then there are no colors.
Coming to the separate observer, when seeing is there, then the recognization which leads to the projection of the image of what is being seen. Whatever image is seen that is the observer.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Coming to the separate observer, when seeing is there, then the recognization which leads to the projection of the image of what is being seen. Whatever image is seen that is the observer.

Yes, with sight, there is an image, but there is also a projection: ideas about objects in space and what the objects are. Is that what you meant?

So you can say that there is sight, and there are thoughts. Is there anything else? Most importantly, is there an "I" who receives the sensory information? Can that be found?

Look carefully and tell me what you find.


Steve

[summiru2]

Dear Steve,

Yes, with sight, there is an image, but there is also a projection: ideas about objects in space and what the objects are. Is that what you meant?

Projection is nothing but the descriptions, the emotional content, and recognition with the previous experience. Actually, these projections which are acting a separate self are obstructing the actual seeing.

So you can say that there is sight, and there are thoughts. Is there anything else? Most importantly, is there an "I" who receives the sensory information? Can that be found?

There is no "I". There is nothing claiming it as "self".

There is no "I", it's somehow learned in the earlier childhood. Somehow some imaginary space named as "I" in the earlier childhood, on that heap of layers language, culture, experiences are getting added. There is no "I".

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Actually, these projections which are acting a separate self are obstructing the actual seeing.

Seeing whether "I" is there will overcome what you imagine to be there. If you have not seen through the illusion, then you have more looking to do.

There is no "I". There is nothing claiming it as "self".

Excellent! Did you actually see that it was not there? (An "I" that receives sense information) Tell me what you saw, because I need to make sure.

What remains? How/where is it still felt that "I" am here, controlling, deciding, observing, acting, or owning experience?


Steve

[summiru2]

Dear Steve,

Excellent! Did you actually see that it was not there? (An "I" that receives sense information) Tell me what you saw, because I need to make sure.

Memories which come into play are taken as self, but there is no "I" among them.

What remains? How/where is it still felt that "I" am here, controlling, deciding, observing, acting, or owning experience?

In the inattentiveness experiences(rise of the descriptions, fears, desires, anticipations) are arising, which are leading to other thoughts or experiences. When the experience is observed, experience ceases to exist then no more experience or action, but it happens in the fullest observation only.

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

Great answer. Thank you.

but it happens in the fullest observation only.

Then you need to do more of this full observation until the penny drops.

Please look at some simple daily experiences and notice how they are found in direct experience through the different senses + thought. For example:

Looking out the window = sight + thought
Eating a piece of fruit = sight + smell + taste
Saying hello to someone = sound + body sensation + thought

When you have done this for a while, look for feelings of self that come up throughout the day. How are they sensed?

For example:
- Someone calls your name. Look where the attention goes.
- You remember that you have to do something.
- You make some food in the kitchen. The body performs many actions.
- You make a decision.

How EXACTLY are these things sensed?


Steve

[blackh]

Hi Rami,

I will be offline for three days while I do some long distance travel.


Steve