Oops, I found the "I"! Help debugging?

[wrinkledcow]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The sense of being an individual core of awareness located within that awareness is inaccurate.

What are you looking for at LU?
Some instruction with what seems a rather unique problem - I immediately and easily find the "I". That is to say, the instruction to "invert" seeking and turn it onto that which seeks yields an overwhelming, intuitive and irrational feeling that I am a bundle of very strong sensations located on the bridge of my nose. This sense of being located in a specific place and being a specific set of sensations doesn't go away upon prolonged or deeper inspection. I think this isn't supposed to be the point of looking for the self, so I definitely screwed up somewhere.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
It would be nice to have some insight as to what people in a similar position to my own (who can find a centre to space, or a source of seeking, or whatever you want to call it) have done to resolve the issue. (In other words, the program isn't behaving normally; need someone to help me debug!)

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've tried it all on and practiced hard. I practice Buddhism in a traditional Thai context, but I have practiced and studied various other forms of spirituality. I'm not dogmatically committed to one interpretation, though, and I don't feel my tradition has some kind of monopoly on "selfless" perspectives.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Maluhia]

Good evening wrinkledcow,

How wonderful that you have found yourself at the 'gate.' My name is Siobhán and I would be delighted to guidet you.
If you decide to allow me to guide you, my first question is would you like to be called wrinkledcow or is there another name you would prefer. I will wait for your response.

Siobhán

[wrinkledcow]

Hi there,

Sure, you can call me "Mike".

Cheers,

Your dairy-producing and slightly pruny friend.

[Maluhia]

Good evening Mike,
Great. Before we begin, please make yourself familiar with how the quotes function works as we will be using this regularly. Also, there are a few ground rules: always do your best to speak from your experience only, not from thoughts, ideas or beliefs. Also, other than a few exceptions when we will let eachother know, we will both agree to post a response every day. The last is to avoid listening to or reading anything spiritual for the duration of our exchange as this will interfere with the process. I ask that you be open and that you do your best to not refer to opinions or beliefs. Here in this format we are not teachers we are simply guides doing our best to point to the illusion of what we all call reality.
If you agree, then my first question to you is who or what is reading these words? Love and Blessings,
Siobhán

[wrinkledcow]

Hi Siobhán,

That all sounds good - I'll try my best to abide by all of those conditions during our conversation.

If you agree, then my first question to you is who or what is reading these words?

To answer your question from my own perspective, the throbbing sensation on the bridge of my nose is reading your words, using consciousness to fetch the information for it.

Best regards,

Michael

[Maluhia]

Good evening Mike,

To answer your question from my own perspective, the throbbing sensation on the bridge of my nose is reading your words, using consciousness to fetch the information for it.

Please tell me more about the 'throbbing sensation' on the bridge of your nose.

Blessings,

Siobhán

[wrinkledcow]

Sure, no problem. Whenever I'm asked to locate myself, I notice that there is a very strong feeling - a sort of pulsing or glowing somatic sensation - on the bridge of my nose which is the centre of my phenomenal experience. It's sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, but conscious experience seems to emanate from that point. There is never consciousness without it. To use an analogy, I would say that if life is a movie, the objects of experience are the pictures on the screen, consciousness is the light, and that central point (myself) is the projector.

Obviously this model is logically absurd. I can perceive that sensation, and since there cannot be two experiencers, I cannot be that sensation. I think what might be responsible for the illusion is the overwhelming strength of the feeling. It doesn't go away so long as I am conscious. I don't think I can out-logic this; it's an intuition problem. This FEELS like the centre of my experience. Intellectually understanding that to be untrue and believing experience to be centreless isn't really enough. I would appreciate pointers!

Cheers and best wishes,

Michael

[Maluhia]

What is looking out of your eyes ? What is noticing your thoughts?

Blessings,

Siobhán

[wrinkledcow]

I guess I would say that sight is looking from behind my eyes. But sight doesn't feel like me. It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with me. Touch seems to be the more important sense for grounding my sense of locatedness.

[Maluhia]

Good morning Mike,

I guess I would say that sight is looking from behind my eyes.

What is sight? Remember to get out of your head. Thinking will not help you with this : )

Blessings,

Siobhán

[wrinkledcow]

What is sight?

Sight is the fact that visual images appear.

Best,

Mike

[Maluhia]

Hello again Mike,

What is aware of sight?

[wrinkledcow]

Siobhán,

I would say that nothing is aware of sight. Sight is any awareness that is carried by visual objects. That's as far up the chain as it goes.

Best,

Mike

[Maluhia]

Dear Mike,

I would say that nothing is aware of sight. Sight is any awareness that is carried by visual objects. That's as far up the chain as it goes.

Really? When you have a thought, what is aware of the thought?

[wrinkledcow]

The intellect, or thought-consciousness, is aware of the thought (and the intellect is the fact that thoughts appear).

Please pardon my boldness, but I don't see what this has to do with my feeling of locatedness. Consciousness (whether it be of an image, thought or whatever) is not what I am, since it simply doesn't feel like me. It feels like something other than me. But certain objects can be said to feel like me. In my case, the bridge of my nose feels like me. (I know it logically can't be, but my question is whether or not there is a way to *feel* that it is not me. I'm not satisfied with believing it or knowing it.)

Best wishes,

Michael