Looking For A Guide

[Matthew]

There is a thought that “I” need to try harder to dissolve the “I”.

Wait a second... There has to be something wrong here, hasn't it!? ;-)
You're just imagining all this.
There is no "I" dissolving anything and there is no "I" being dissolved anywhere.
All there is is thought telling an entertaining story about all this.

There are expectations of feeling something ‘better’

Is it possible to drop all these expectations?
Expectations come from comparison. Comparison to awakening-stories.
Only look at this very present experience and ONLY at how things are unfolding right here and right now!
Can you do that?

What is the direct experience of "confusion", "anxiety" and "disorientation"?

Sensations of heat, palpitations, tightness in the body.

Is that true?



Please find a quiet place and a quiet time.
Sit or lay down and relax. Close your eyes and relax.

Can you attend to sensation exclusively?
Not minding thought babbling about this and that?
Not minding thought labelling sensation for a bit?

Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here".
But could this be known from pure sensation?

Thought might suggest: "There is a soft pressure against the back".
But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?


Once arrived there, while ONLY attending to sensation, please have a look at the following questions:

Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

[SamanthaR]

Is it possible to drop all these expectations?

It’s possible to try. Definitely.

Expectations come from comparison. Comparison to awakening-stories.

Yes they do come from comparison to stories and also to glimmers that I have had.

Only look at this very present experience and ONLY at how things are unfolding right here and right now!
Can you do that?

Yes, I can do it in the moment and also when I focus on it throughout the day.

Can you attend to sensation exclusively?
Not minding thought babbling about this and that?
Not minding thought labelling sensation for a bit?

Thought may tell: "I am lying here" or "My body is lying here" or "A body is lying here".
But could this be known from pure sensation?

I can attend to sensation exclusively. When I do, there is no “body” it is only sort of an arbitrary sensation that is not located anywhere. It’s difficult to describe and I hesitate even using the word sensation because it’s more of an unattached motion than the term “sensation” conveys.
There is no body or boundaries of a body with just pure sensation.

Can be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?

No, none of this exists at the point that there is only sensation experienced. The “body” just becomes another label to sort of notate the locations of the sensations in space.

[Matthew]

Very good observations!

Let's have a look again at this:

What is the direct experience of "confusion", "anxiety" and "disorientation"?

Sensations of heat, palpitations, tightness in the body.

Is that true?

[SamanthaR]

Is that true?

Only when I’m not looking directly at sensation only. Then it is my label for the experience of combined thought with those particular sensations.

When I am looking only at sensation, there are just sensations in a field. There is a thought that goes along with the particular group of sensations that labels them as “anxiety” etc. and denotes them as being “in a body.”

So I can see where in the end it is not true - not at least in that moment. And that the sensations are just labeled by the thought.

How does one make this stick long term when not in a hyper concentrated state? Or will it just eventually be not necessary to need to try and stay there?

[Matthew]

It is simply a question of believing in a story or not believing in a story.

If I would tell you that there is an old bearded man at the north pole called Santa Claus, who is right now preparing presents and will send them down your chimney on christmas eve.
Then you don't have to inquire. You don't have to question.
You certainly don't have to remain in a hyper concentrated state.
You simply KNOW that it is just a story. And you don't believe it. You can even enjoy this story.

It is the same thing with all the other stories told.


When there is a story about "this sensation is anxiety".
Do you believe it?
Or do you not believe it?


If there is a story about a "me".
Do you believe it?
Or do you not believe it?

[SamanthaR]

When there is a story about "this sensation is anxiety".
Do you believe it?
Or do you not believe it?

If I can separate out the thought (story) from the sensation, I can just see it as sensation and not believe the story, or not believe it so readily. When I am overwhelmed by it, it is more difficult.

If there is a story about a "me".
Do you believe it?
Or do you not believe it?

Sometimes I believe it more than other times. I believe it a lot less recently. But while I see your point and understand it intellectually, (For the most part), I just don’t feel it yet intuitively.
When “I” think about it, I am struck by what then is actually there if there is no “me”? What is left behind after the automatic responses and thoughts are seen for what they are - a story.
What is the presence that is behind them? How do “I” touch it or experience it? Does that even make sense?

Also, what is it that when I feel love towards someone - specifically someone’s personality, be it their humor, or pain or whatever quality I feel love for, that I am actually loving if they are without a “they” as I am without a “me”. It seems pointless in a way to love a set of sort of predetermined responses and thoughts.

[Matthew]

With the belief in a separate self, there also lingers the belief, that the separate self is something, which needs protection.
What is being protected?
What's being protected is the fact, that the separate self is illusory to begin with!

This is where the present resistance is coming from.
It'll be all right!

what is it that when I feel love towards someone

Have a look!
Where is "I" in loving?
Is it really true that an "I" loves a "you"?
Is "I" needed for love to happen?

When “I” think about it, I am struck by what then is actually there if there is no “me”?

Here is where we need courage and steadiness.
What is left here when there is no idea of a "me"?
Do you want to see that?
No matter how it turns out to be?

If there is a story about a "me".
Do you believe it?
Or do you not believe it?

Sometimes I believe it more than other times.

Now look a little closer!
For a belief to truly exist, there must be something believing.
What is believing in the story?
What can be found?

[SamanthaR]

What is being protected?
What's being protected is the fact, that the separate self is illusory to begin with!

This is where the present resistance is coming from.
It'll be all right!

I think what is being protected is maybe the body, from pain or death? Since I don’t know yet what’s behind the separate self, I’m not sure if it knows how to navigate safely. ;-)

What's being protected is the fact, that the separate self is illusory to begin with!

I’m trying to understand. Why would the separate self do this, or how does it do this? Maybe I am picturing it wrong. Is it just conditioned responses protecting its identity?

.Is it really true that an "I" loves a "you"?
Is "I" needed for love to happen?

I don’t think so,at least not all the time, but I seem to “love” the personalities of people and animals. If those personalities are illusory, or just a set of responses, what am I loving - or rather, what makes one person different than another when loving someone. What would make someone “special”?

What is left here when there is no idea of a "me"?
Do you want to see that?
No matter how it turns out to be?
.

YES. The truth is the most important thing.
Yes yes and YES.

For a belief to truly exist, there must be something believing.
What is believing in the story?
What can be found?.

All I can find is more thoughts and programming and conditionings and assumptions. It sort of feels like the story itself is both telling and believing the story.

[Matthew]

YES. The truth is the most important thing.
Yes yes and YES.

Good!

Is it just conditioned responses protecting its identity?

Exactly.

What would make someone “special”?

An old oaktree is a very special natural appearance, agree?
Is there a separate self within the tree, which makes it special?
Clearly not.
Same goes for the natural appearance called "human".

It sort of feels like the story itself is both telling and believing the story.

This is the most important bit.
And yes.
The "believing in the story" is just another aspect of the same story.
There is no one and no thing outside of the story doing the believing.

Can you observe that?

[SamanthaR]

. An old oaktree is a very special natural appearance, agree?
Is there a separate self within the tree, which makes it special?
Clearly not.
Same goes for the natural appearance called "human".

It has taken me a bit to look at this, I’m still looking. I think I see the oak tree with its own story attached, meaning I think I give the oak tree a separate self, or “anthropomorphise” it. I’m trying to find an object I don’t do that with.

.There is no one and no thing outside of the story doing the believing.

Can you observe that?

I can see that it’s a story and the believing is part of the story. What is it that’s observing the story? Or is that part of the story too?

[Matthew]

There is evidently observing going on.

But is it a "something" which is doing the observing?
Can such a "something" be seen in present experience?

Have a look!
Does observing require a "something" to happen?

[SamanthaR]

. Can such a "something" be seen in present experience?

In one way there is sort of a sense of something. But since it’s the thing doing the observing, it’s hard to conceptualize observing it. It is not present in direct experience as far as I can tell. Unless I’m not seeing it correctly.

Does observing require a "something" to happen?

This is a difficult one only because of this strange interaction I feel between what is observed and me as observer. It’s like a state of awakeness has to be present for me to be conscious that something is being observed. It’s hard to describe.

It’s almost like not registering what is going on in front of my eyes because there is no “agency” in the body when I just try to do it without all the thoughts and labels. It feels slightly not present. I can’t quite describe it but it’s very uncomfortable.

So, I don’t know. I don’t know if there is observation without the “something” being present. This is one of the harder parts for me to get past.

I am going to a ten day vipassana retreat starting Tuesday. There are no electronics allowed so I will read and reply after the 11th of June. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and the first two weeks of the new month.

[Matthew]

Yes, there is awakeness.
Have a look whether this awakeness belongs to anyone or anything.
Have a look whether there is a something or a someone to be found within this awakeness being responsible for it.

Can observing and all that happen without a subject doing it?


Throughout the next days, you can do this:


Find a comfortable place and for about 5 minutes, write down what is happening right now.
Like this:

I am sitting here.
I am writing something down.
I am hearing a car.
I a sensing a chair under my body.

And so on.


After that, find another spot and again, write down what is happening while not using any subjective reference.
Like this:

Sitting on a sofa.
Thinking about yesterday.
Hearing a bird.
Sensing softness.

And so on.


Report what can be observed when using these two different types of language!

[SamanthaR]

Yes, there is awakeness.
Have a look whether this awakeness belongs to anyone or anything.
Have a look whether there is a something or a someone to be found within this awakeness being responsible for it.

Yes, actually this is the trap for me. I don’t mean awakeness as in ‘not asleep’ but rather a psychological sort of awakeness.

Last year I had a bad experience that started me on this path. I was physically sick and ended up needing to go to the hospital. I was laying on the hospital bed and staring at a curtain hanging by the bed which had shapes and colors - but at the time I didn’t know it was a curtain I didn’t even know it had colors, I know my eyes saw it because I remember it but mentally it did not register. Not as colors, not as anything. I was mostly unconscious and it felt like what I imagine being dead to feel like. It was absolutely horrible. Even now as I think of it I feel slightly sick. It abated somewhat when my “mind” tries to focus in and wake up the awareness to see and experience the colors or shapes. Otherwise it is visual perceptions not reaching a brain.

So, yes I feel like there is something that is responsible for it, or that wakes it up and causes it to be active. When it’s active there is more of a joy or curiosity and a full experience of color or shape etc.
But again, I don’t know what that is that is the “something” that wakes up the awareness. Maybe it’s more awareness?

On the other part of the exercise I will try it over the next two weeks and report back when I return mid June. I’m looking forward to trying it for a couple of weeks.

I’ll respond in a couple weeks. Thank you for everything and I’ll respond after the retreat.

[Matthew]

We will have a look at all those aspects once you're back.

Just keep this in mind while being on the retreat:
It will be all right!

And you won't be in need of another retreat once we are done here.



See you soon!